Bicycle Mechanics - Cannondale and proprietary stuff

I'm looking for a single bike that can do lots of things fairly well (commuter, somewhat speedy road bike, converts to a real ATB) but I have a mechanical question.

The Cannondale Bad Boy Ultra looks like it fits the bill....and looks cool, too. However, it's got disc brakes (which I know nothing about) and that head shock.

I generally like to figure out how to fix things myself, but I've heard that the head shock is not something I would want to deal with. Well, that's OK I guess, but I am wondering if it's a reliable system....so that when I DO have to bring it in for repair, it's not terribly frequent. Also, I don't want a system that's so complicated, that I'll have to search around for a specific competent mechanic. I have heard that it works wonderfully, but the proprietary nature of it is of concern.

The brakes are mechanical discs. Do these require more attention than rim brakes?

Thanks for any input,
Kelton

...I don't want a system that's so complicated, that I'll have to search around for a specific competent mechanic...
Kelton

You want to stay away from the Headshok. Unless you have a C'Dale dealer (or dealers) nearby with good wrenches.

I've been told by our best bike mechanic in the area (100 mile radius) that while their non-canondale shop will try to work on the Canondale headshock, most Canondale dealers will not and will send it to Canondale instead.

The only shop in the area that sells the more expensive bikes like Specialized, sends all their forks to the factory for work, even Fox which is mostly home maintainable/repairable.

Things are just getting more expensive in the cycle industry.

Al

Surly Karate Monkey (http://www.surlybikes.com/karatemonkey.html) is my suggestion. Can be built as a 29" MTB or a 700c roadie which will take fatter tires. I would use Salsa Delgado Cross rims and lace them to your hub of choice (disc or not will be up to you). Then spec it out with a compact road double (50/34 or maybe change that big ring to something smaller depending on your terrain) and a MTB cassette and flat bars. This will give you some good on and off road gearing and the choice of either 29" MTB tires, CX tires or even 700X28 road tires. Would make a REALLY good all around bike. The Cross Check or another CX bike would also be a good choice for an all around bike.

I don't run disc brakes, but I have 2 Cannondales-both with Headshoks. I have never had an issue with my Headshoks. The one time I had any service done(by a Cannondale dealer) was to replace the spring/elastomer combo on my HT(wasn't stiff enough for my weight). That's it! In my experience, you'll never have to touch that Headshok unless something catastrophic happens or you want to upgrade internals. Maybe I've just been lucky....

Maybe I've just been lucky....
That would be my guess. To your continued good luck. :beer:

We took 'em apart. And put 'em back together right, even. Not saying that they're incredibly easy to work on, but overhauling any front end isn't going to be as easy as a derailleur adjustment.

the headshok's are the most simple forks out there in my opinion, however you can't work on them without the right tools. i have rebuilt plenty of cannondale forks with great success, but sometimes the problems are a little too difficult so we'll have to send them back to cannondale, which is a bit pricey, but you get a brand new (feeling) fork back. it's not very easy to mess up a headshok either, i've been abusing my lefty for a couple years without any troubles...

That would be my guess. To your continued good luck. :beer:

I knew I could count on your support, Raiyn! Cheers! :beer:

Now my frame'll probably fall apart this weekend....

Agreed that it's not a complicated fork, it just requires a special tool to take it apart. Guess what? Cannondale doesn't sell the tool to anyone except their dealers. To add to that, they are now requesting that the dealers DO NOT tear apart their forks and to just remove them and send them back to Cannondale for repair. They claim a liability issue. Even if you been trained to work on them (from years ago).

What mechanical discs are spec'd? Avid's or Hayes?

If Avids, you'll probably love them. Hayes are a bit finicky to get right. I love Hayes hydraulics, but not a big fan of their mechanicals. (they're so-so). Avid's are easy to set-up, easy to maintain, and easy to adjust. Plus they work!!!!

To add to that, they are now requesting that the dealers DO NOT tear apart their forks and to just remove them and send them back to Cannondale for repair. They claim a liability issue. Even if you been trained to work on them (from years ago).



Hmm.. that's news to me, especially considering that cannondale just did a tech seminar this past summer and went into full detail of their old and new forks, and even sent us a whole batch of new tools... Seems strange, but less work for me!
:D

Your shop must be pretty elaborate and extensive. Down here, most shops are smaller Mom and Pop type shops. The three Cannondale dealers in my area (worked in one of them-two shops/one owner) send their forks back. This was in a memo from C'Dale. Guess it's been two+ years now since I worked for a C'Dale dealer. Maybe the pendulum is swinging back the other way!

I'll shut up now!

The Headshok is a great piece of gear if you follow the maintenance schedule, which requires frequent servicing. Nothing too difficult, but if your Headshok goes bad, you're screwed. The headache and expense is not worth it. Granted, I have almost zero product support over here, but my bike has been sitting for months while I ponder what to do. The local Cannondale dealer has offered to ship the fork to the US for service. Oh, that should be cheap. Other than that, I'm happy with my 2nd Cannondale. Mechanical discs are easy to work on, don't let them scare you away.

Agreed that it's not a complicated fork, it just requires a special tool to take it apart. Guess what? Cannondale doesn't sell the tool to anyone except their dealers. To add to that, they are now requesting that the dealers DO NOT tear apart their forks and to just remove them and send them back to Cannondale for repair. They claim a liability issue. Even if you been trained to work on them (from years ago).


Well, this has been several years ago, but my LBS then offered to order the tool for me(as in for my home shop). They already had one, being a Cannondale dealer, and it would've been around $80US from what I remember. I didn't want to pay for the tool when I'd probably only use it once or twice. Guess they don't do that anymore.

@Expatriate: Like I said, the only service my HT had was to replace the internals on my Headshok. The LBS never mentioned any scheduled service and this was 2-3 years after I bought the bike. I probably needed to RTFM. Maybe my Headshoks are so old they don't have as much to screw up on 'em?

@Expatriate: Like I said, the only service my HT had was to replace the internals on my Headshok. The LBS never mentioned any scheduled service and this was 2-3 years after I bought the bike. I probably needed to RTFM. Maybe my Headshoks are so old they don't have as much to screw up on 'em?

The manual says something like every 20 hours or 60 days to give it a bit of lube and a look. They make it sound much easier than it is. Mine failed suddenly.

Just for FYI, You might check this bike out.

http://www.rei.com/product/47841651.htm?vcat=REI_SSHP_CYCLING_TOC

My friend has the bad boy, and while I think it looks cool, and is a nice idea conceptually, I would not buy one. My friend regrets it as well. My take is this: If you look at the component spec, it is similar to bikes costing a little more than half as much. Essentially, it is a MTB frame with discs. Any disc MTB can accept 700c rims laced to MTB hubs, so you are not limited to the Bad boy. If you look at the geometry, it is like a MTB with a 1 degree steeper head tube angle. Again, you could accomplish the same thing by running an 80mm fork on a bike designed for 100mm. The headshock on my buddy's frame really bites. No way it compares with even a low end suspension fork by rock shox, manitou or marzoichi. Not only that, but it developed play after less than a 1000 km of road riding, and had to be repaired. The disc brakes that came on his bike were shimano mechanicals, and they do not perform well at all. They screech like a mother, and have unaccepable power, and modulation that is only slightly better than a set of cheap V's.

Well, there ya go! I have to admit, seems like Cannondale's quality has gone downhill somewhat over the past few years. When we still had a dealer here, the frame(and name) was most of the price combined with subpar parts, typically. Luck really might have a lot to do with it for me....

I think the Headshock to the Cannondale is like the Corvair is to the Chevrolet.

Ok, I'll think twice about dropping $1,300 on the Bad Boy Ultra. The bike shop also has a Specialized Sirrus in my size on sale....the original price is $950, but it's on sale at $800.
Here's the specialized link to that bike: http://www.specialized.com/SBCBkModel.jsp?spid=5995&JServSessionIdroot=6qwj03up1n.j27010

Perhaps, I'll mention this bike on another thread because I am no longer asking a "mechanics" question. Still, if anyone cares to offer input about that Sirrus, I'm all ears!

Thanks for the REI link, too. I love the split pea color! Do you think a novice mechanic can assemble that thing correctly? (I'm not sure how it comes shipped...is it totally in pieces?)

Kelton

I think the Headshock to the Cannondale is like the Corvair is to the Chevrolet.

Not quite though. A properly working Headshok is a good piece of machinery. A Corvair will never be anything more than just a piece. My Cannondale was built from scratch for $3,500 (someone else's money, not mine :D ) and has performed flawlessly for several years now. Other than the Headshok, I've never had any problems. This is my 2nd one, and I bought one for my brother, which he had no problems with either. Nothing compares to the Headshok for stiffness, but that comes at a price. Oh well. I've still got my titanium tandem.

Ok, I'll think twice about dropping $1,300 on the Bad Boy Ultra. The bike shop also has a Specialized Sirrus in my size on sale....the original price is $950, but it's on sale at $800.
Here's the specialized link to that bike: http://www.specialized.com/SBCBkModel.jsp?spid=5995&JServSessionIdroot=6qwj03up1n.j27010

Perhaps, I'll mention this bike on another thread because I am no longer asking a "mechanics" question. Still, if anyone cares to offer input about that Sirrus, I'm all ears!

Thanks for the REI link, too. I love the split pea color! Do you think a novice mechanic can assemble that thing correctly? (I'm not sure how it comes shipped...is it totally in pieces?)

Kelton

Kelton, have you checked the specialized crossroads xc pro?
It's basically the same as the badboy ultra except it costs $100 less and has a standard fork with a lockout.

Not quite though. A properly working Headshok is a good piece of machinery. A Corvair will never be anything more than just a piece. My Cannondale was built from scratch for $3,500 (someone else's money, not mine :D ) and has performed flawlessly for several years now. Other than the Headshok, I've never had any problems. This is my 2nd one, and I bought one for my brother, which he had no problems with either. Nothing compares to the Headshok for stiffness, but that comes at a price. Oh well. I've still got my titanium tandem.


I think it all boils down to personal experience and, as long as you're not taking these opinions as gospel, these posts amount to decent, albeit free, advice. The Headshok's stiffness is what I love about it. So I don't have that much travel and I can't rebuild my own suspension. I ride mine over the same stuff my buddy's 100mm fork takes on and I don't have any problems keepin' up. If you get used to your ride and have it dialed in well, you're gonna be fine on it and, at the very least, have fun.

I saw a cannondale ultra badboy a couple of nights ago. It looks beautiful... flat black, No labels anywhere except the bottom of the down tube and some cool reflective stickers that are kinda dark until light hits em on the seat stays and chain stays. It had sram shifters and derails. The fork also had a lockout. Nice looking ride.
Someone mentioned building up a surly...... I do know from experience that it can be pretty expensive to build up a bike yourself... I picked up the perfect stumpjumper frame and am turning it into a touring bike. I had to buy everything EXCEPT the wheels/tires and the handlebars/shifters/brake levers. I have about 700 into the parts alone .... hope the wife doesn't see this post LOL. So I have over 800 into a 96 stumpjumper... yeah it's nice, all XT, with an avid front disk, snf rverything is brand spanking new but I still have over 800 into a 96 stumpjumper LOL
D

I still have over 800 into a 96 stumpjumper LOL
D
I've got close to a G in a 99 Hardrock so don't sweat it.

I've got close to a G in a 99 Hardrock so don't sweat it.


About AU$10k into our tandem, and my wife has never questioned a penny. :)

About AU$10k into our tandem, and my wife has never questioned a penny. :)
My girlfriend knows better than to question me about my bike spending habits. She'd lose the "trickle down" parts and free wrenching. :p

My girlfriend knows better than to question me about my bike spending habits. She'd lose the "trickle down" parts and free wrenching. :p

And what woman in her right mind would pass up "Free wrenching"? :D Did I mention my wife rides my custom one-off FS frameset?

And what woman in her right mind would pass up "Free wrenching"? :D Did I mention my wife rides my custom one-off FS frameset?
Impressive. My better half doesn't ride my bikes.

Then you don't have to worry about her stealing yours. Next on her list is a longer travel bike, like a Kona Stinky. And maybe a pink BMX to ride while I'm racing.

Then you don't have to worry about her stealing yours. Next on her list is a longer travel bike, like a Kona Stinky. And maybe a pink BMX to ride while I'm racing.
Oddly enough she doesn't care for dual squishes. Could be because I haven't set one up for her to really try. She's borrowed mine without letting me adjust the suspension for her.

We go for coffee, or to the beach, and my wife jumps kerbs and stuff. That's on an XC frame with only about 3-4 inches of travel. I can't imagine what she'd be like if she could go real big in the bush.

We go for coffee, or to the beach, and my wife jumps kerbs and stuff. That's on an XC frame with only about 3-4 inches of travel. I can't imagine what she'd be like if she could go real big in the bush.
Not into those "natural" hippie chick types personally

Pondering whether what was funny, or un-called for.

Still pondering...

Pondering whether what was funny, or un-called for.
You bloody well know it was funny and that you'd bust on me if I gave you that big an opening. :D

And to think I didn't give you crap for not knowing what a pushie was.

And to think I didn't give you crap for not knowing what a pushie was.
:roflmao:

You still don't, do you?

Now I'm waiting... and I think we hijacked this thread.... and I can't wait to get my bike finished.... and I like "natural" girls....
:-)

Kelton, as you read these posts, remember one thing - you can't believe everythng you read.

All we offer here are opinions - similar answers would be posted regarding any other fork, and any other mechanical disc.

Both headshox and the mech discs are regarded as good qaulity and reliable - but this is all a function of how you ride and service them.

IMHO - headshox are a great XC/road use fork - stiff and light - but travel is limited to a max of 80mm (most modesl are 70mm). But it is imperative that you ensure the shock "boot" is kept affixed well and doesn't split (to stop road cr@p getting into the internals).

Most of the other forks on the market require some "special tools" to completely service.

One of the good things about cannondale headshox is, even if they are completely abused, all bearings and sliders can be replaced. That's not possible if you score (scratch) the sliders on a telescoping leg fork. They also offer parts for all lagacy models. Marzocchi do too, but all the others usually stop bothering after 5 years.

Mech discs are fine. Can usually spec Avids, and they seem to work the best, and have the easiest setup.

Bad Boys aren't cheap - but you do get the best warranty in the business.

Run. Do not walk away from Cannondale parts. I had a 4 year old hub that the previous owner cranked down too hard on the cones and wrecked them. Races were fine. I spent over six months with my moron LBS and direct calls to cannondale trying to get a simple cone replacement for this perfectly good hub. I finally gave up and threw it away and bought an LX for $29. Cannondale is not in it for the long haul. Their customer service is worthless.

Bad Boys aren't cheap - but you do get the best warranty in the business.
Best warranty? That's funny since I found this on the Cannondale site


TERMS OF WARRANTY:

* This warranty is not meant to suggest or imply that the bicycle cannot be broken or will last forever. It does mean that the bicycle is covered subject to the terms of the warranty.
* This warranty only applies to the original owner of a Cannondale bicycle and is not transferable to subsequent owners.
* For any warranty claim to be considered, the bicycle must be brought in to an Authorized Cannondale Bicycle Retailer in assembled condition and accompanied by the original, dated sales receipt for the bicycle. (Be sure to keep your receipt in a safe place.)
* This warranty only applies to bicycles purchased in fully assembled and adjusted condition from Authorized Cannondale Retailers or other outlets specifically authorized by Cannondale to distribute Cannondale bicycles.
* This warranty is void if the bicycle is subjected to abuse, neglect, improper repair, alterations, modifications, an accident or other abnormal, excessive, or improper conditions.
* Damage resulting from normal wear and tear, including the results of fatigue, is not covered. Fatigue damage is a symptom of the frame being worn out through use. It is one kind of wear and tear. See sections 5, A and D.
* Damage resulting from improper assembly or maintenance, or from installation of parts and accessories not compatible with the Cannondale bicycle is not covered.
* All labor charges for warranty service are the responsibility of the bicycle's owner.
* During the acceptable duration of this warranty, Cannondale will either repair any defective frame, or, at our option, replace any defective frame with the same or most nearly comparable model then available. THIS IS THE EXCLUSIVE REMEDY UNDER THIS WARRANTY. ANY AND ALL OTHER REMEDIES THAT MAY OTHERWISE BE APPLICABLE ARE EXCLUDED, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, INCIDENTAL OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES.

THIS IS THE ONLY WARRANTY MADE BY CANNONDALE ON ITS FRAMES AND COMPONENTS. ANY WARRANTIES THAT MAY OTHER-WISE BE IMPLIED BY LAW INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, ANY IMPLIED WARRANTY OF MERCHANTABILITY OR FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE ARE LIMITED TO THE APPLICABLE DURATION OF THIS LIMITED WARRANTY.

Please refer to the documents included with your bicycle for possible further restrictions.

This Limited Warranty gives the consumer specific legal rights. The consumer may also have other legal rights which vary from state to state. Some states do not allow the exclusion or limitation of incidental or consequential damages or limitations on how long implied warranties last, so the above limitations or exclusions may not apply to you.
http://www.cannondale.com/policies/bike_warr_policy.html
Specialized has a Limited Lifetime warranty as well so I'm really not impressed

Run. Do not walk away from Cannondale parts. I had a 4 year old hub that the previous owner cranked down too hard on the cones and wrecked them. Races were fine. I spent over six months with my moron LBS and direct calls to cannondale trying to get a simple cone replacement for this perfectly good hub. I finally gave up and threw it away and bought an LX for $29. Cannondale is not in it for the long haul. Their customer service is worthless.

I don't get it. You had a 4 year old hub that was improperly serviced, and you wanted replacement parts? Was it a Coda hub? 6 months to try to get parts? Something's just not right. For a company that isn't in it for the long haul, they've sure been around a fair bit.

I had a 4 year old hub that the previous owner cranked down too hard on the cones and wrecked them.
Key words: "previous owner". Warranties on components are often no more than ONE year and limited to the original owner.
TERMS OF WARRANTY:

* This warranty only applies to the original owner of a Cannondale bicycle and is not transferable to subsequent owners.


* This warranty is void if the bicycle is subjected to abuse, neglect, improper repair, alterations, modifications, an accident or other abnormal, excessive, or improper conditions.
* Damage resulting from normal wear and tear, including the results of fatigue, is not covered. Fatigue damage is a symptom of the frame being worn out through use. It is one kind of wear and tear. See sections 5, A and D.
* Damage resulting from improper assembly or maintenance, or from installation of parts and accessories not compatible with the Cannondale bicycle is not covered.

http://www.cannondale.com/policies/bike_warr_policy.html

I think his point was that Cannondale should still have parts readily available. If it was a Coda part, I suppose that's not unreasonable. But even the worst LBS should have come up with something pretty easily.

What is rediculous is cannondale jacked up prices on some parts... lefty front hub = 130 dollars!

I love my cannondale but somethings like the 1.5 inch head tube are annoying, expecially when you want to add a different fork!

What is rediculous is cannondale jacked up prices on some parts... lefty front hub = 130 dollars!

I love my cannondale but somethings like the 1.5 inch head tube are annoying, expecially when you want to add a different fork!

That's not ridiculous. They're not cheap to make, and I'm sure they don't sell that many. Yeah, I hate the 1.5 head tube, but there's something worse. Over here, any time I ask a Cannondale question at the LBS, the response is the same - '"We'll have to call Cannondale tomorrow and then call you back". I have to buy the Cane Creek headset and use a regular fork. Or wait a few months and pay probably AU$500 to have my Headshok repaired. That's ridiculous!

What is rediculous is cannondale jacked up prices on some parts... lefty front hub = 130 dollars!

I love my cannondale but somethings like the 1.5 inch head tube are annoying, expecially when you want to add a different fork!


that's actually on par with some other top quality hubs out there. try the woodman components lefty hub; very nice from what i hear. no idea on the price though. AFAIK, they are the only other company to make a lefty hub. www.woodmancoomponents.com

and there are several adapter headsets and headtube reducers available cheap that'll let you run a standard 1-1/8" fork in a 1.5 headtube very easily.........

http://aebike.com/site/page.cfm?PageID=30&SKU=HD9902

throw a set of those in, and run what ever fork you wish.

and there are several adapter headsets and headtube reducers available cheap that'll let you run a standard 1-1/8" fork in a 1.5 headtube very easily.........

http://aebike.com/site/page.cfm?PageID=30&SKU=HD9902

throw a set of those in, and run what ever fork you wish.

That is, after you buy a new headset with a very low stack height. Unless you've got about 9 inches of steerer on your fork. CLC made a better adapter, one that used the Cannondale headset bearings, but they've gone out of business.