Classic & Vintage - Sugino Mighty Tour crankset, early 80's valueable. Why?

I have a nice, vintage Centurion with Sugino cranks, bar end shifters and SunTour cyclone GT front and rear deraileurs and was floating around on EbAY and come to find that this stuff is valueable! My question is, why? What makes, what looks to be garage sale fodder, valuable? The stuff is in great shape and has almost no miles on it as can be seen by the wear and tear to the various parts. Still, desireable? Why?

Thanks,

Eric
http://thorin.adnc.com/~jimcharn/DSCN0623-01.jpg http://thorin.adnc.com/~jimcharn/DSCN0624-01.jpg http://thorin.adnc.com/~jimcharn/DSCN0625-01.jpg

Centurion made really nice, lightweight bicycles - made lightweight in part by using some of the better Japanese components available. Contrast a well-made 24 pound Centurion to a 30+ pound Murray or low-end Schwinn, and it is clear that the Centurion is far, far better. People want the Centurion, not the ponderous beasts of yore.

You say valuable, and I have to ask "How valuable?", because it almost certainly is only a fraction of what you'd pay for a brand new "name" bicycle.

Centurion made really nice, lightweight bicycles - made lightweight in part by using some of the better Japanese components available. Contrast a well-made 24 pound Centurion to a 30+ pound Murray or low-end Schwinn, and it is clear that the Centurion is far, far better. People want the Centurion, not the ponderous beasts of yore.

You are comparing apples to road apples. the Centurians were no better and sometimes worse than comaprable bikes from other makers,of the same time period. There is also alot of interest in the nicer old suntour stuff like on his bike.

IMO those Suntour Cyclone's were some of the finest shifting derailleurs ever made. Click (friction of course, though) right into each gear with no hesitation or chatter whatsoever. Bombproof, and fairly attractive styling as well.
A bit of a pain in the @ss to get the rear cable in place, but you can't have everything.

Be careful not to place to much faith in estimating an item's worth by what it's selling for on ebay. People pay outrageous amounts for things there sometimes.

yah, I'd agree with Nick, the real value is the suntour cyclone (first version?).
that and the maybe the crankset. The frame was no great shakes, as Sydney
says comprable to alot of japanese bikes of the era (nishki, Fuji etc.).

Marty

The crankset is a Sugino Mighty TOUR, which was a vry nice crank. Not the same as Sugino Mighty Competition (also nice), the believe the Tour had a 110mm bolt circle, and could use a pretty small inner ring. The Cyclones not only shifted well, but were slightly lighter than Surperbe. This was some of the best Japanese, or if you weren't a Campy snob, some of the very best stuff around at the time.

IMO those Suntour Cyclone's were some of the finest shifting derailleurs ever made. Click (friction of course, though) right into each gear with no hesitation or chatter whatsoever. Bombproof, and fairly attractive styling as well.
A bit of a pain in the @ss to get the rear cable in place, but you can't have everything.

Be careful not to place to much faith in estimating an item's worth by what it's selling for on ebay. People pay outrageous amounts for things there sometimes.


Thanks for the infomarion. I agree that Centurion is no big deal as far as quality of framework. I wasn't inquiring about the bike itself, just the component group as I saw consistently strong prices being paid for these exact components on eBAY. And I was this close (fingers this close apart) to just tossing the whole bike in the round file! Also, I have to say that eBAY is an open marketplace and the prices are set by the buyers. It is often one the BEST place to determine value of an item. Admittedly, presentation is everything and can affect an items value. But when properly presented, and items full value will be realized. What happens is when an item is not represented well in words and pictures the items value can fail to be realized thus setting the "average" value of said item artifically low. In otherwords, if all items were presented correctly, the acuracy of the average price paid for that particular item would be more accurate. The "average" would most certainly go up on virtually all items across the board.

The market will determine the value of items I place on eBAY. Not to spam the list in ANYWAY, but rather to give an example of what I feel is a good presentation... (yes, its my item)

Bianchi Grizzly MTB (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7141338884&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT)


Eric

Thanks for the infomarion. I agree that Centurion is no big deal as far as quality of framework. I wasn't inquiring about the bike itself, just the component group as I saw consistently strong prices being paid for these exact components on eBAY. And I was this close (fingers this close apart) to just tossing the whole bike in the round file! Also, I have to say that eBAY is an open marketplace and the prices are set by the buyers. It is often one the BEST place to determine value of an item. Admittedly, presentation is everything and can affect an items value. But when properly presented, and items full value will be realized. What happens is when an item is not represented well in words and pictures the items value can fail to be realized thus setting the "average" value of said item artifically low. In otherwords, if all items were presented correctly, the acuracy of the average price paid for that particular item would be more accurate. The "average" would most certainly go up on virtually all items across the board.

The market will determine the value of items I place on eBAY. Not to spam the list in ANYWAY, but rather to give an example of what I feel is a good presentation... (yes, its my item)

Bianchi Grizzly MTB (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7141338884&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT)


EricI should have put my hype and BS filter on,and it certailnly isn't a 9 or 10.

I should have put my hype and BS filter on,and it certailnly isn't a 9 or 10.

I feel so used.

Spam spam spam spam...


Spare us your lame salesmanship.

wait, what's being sold? the Grizzly? The Centurion?
Parting it out and selling?
or just fishing for how much to sell it for?

marty

You are comparing apples to road apples. the Centurians were no better and sometimes worse than comaprable bikes from other makers,of the same time period. There is also alot of interest in the nicer old suntour stuff like on his bike.

I did pick the worst case, but even though there's nothing spectacular about the workmanship in Centurions, they are quite light - even when compared to bikes that were comparably priced when new.

The Sugino and Cyclone parts were very high quality. In the early 80's (dating myself again) I ran my Dawes Atlantis over 20,000 miles in 4 years with that type of setup and never had a problem. Right now I am still using a Sugino Maxy crank as a compact crank (New ringns though) on my DEAN as a 9 speed setup. The arms show no sign of weakness.

The Centurian bike is as good as anything else made back then as far as production bikes went. Would probably make a great commuter.....or just part it out for some old geezer like me that might be trying to restore and old frame with original parts.

Your bike from what I see of it looks pretty clean yu got a pic of the whole bike ?

I did pick the worst case, but even though there's nothing spectacular about the workmanship in Centurions, they are quite light - even when compared to bikes that were comparably priced when new.I don't recall them being significantly lighter than anything else. They were made with various tubesets, none of which was exclusive to them. The Japaneese makers were playing the same game with the same stuff at the time.There were low end centurians,and better ones.Same story with Univega,Fuji, Panasonic and all the rest.

Now if it had the Mighty Victory drilled chainrings it would be a really sharp looking CS.

Jude

Now if it had the Mighty Victory drilled chainrings it would be a really sharp looking CS.

Jude


Oh, I think I saw those drilled style! Those were very cool. Looked like cross drilled rotors off a race car! I also saw some cool Sugino road style cranks with PRESSED on outer chainring, i.e no chainring bolts. What are those about? Geeze, this stuff is facinating. Excited to find this forum.


Eric

Spam spam spam spam...


Spare us your lame salesmanship.



Sorry to anyone offended by my stinky spam. Truely not meant to be spam. I was trying to make the point to Nick Burns comment: "Be careful not to place to much faith in estimating an item's worth by what it's selling for on ebay. People pay outrageous amounts for things there sometimes." I was trying to give an example of what a good auction looks like. It happened to be my item, true, and in retrospect I should have linked to a completed auction I did thus I couldn't be acused of spaming you guys. My mistake. Again, my intent was not to spam you... In fact members of this list aren't even the target market for the various bikes I sell. I just enjoy saving bikes doomed to the trash heap. I can't keep them all so I find them new homes through the various calssifieds such as craigslist.com or eBAY. Please, everyone, accept my sincerest apology.


Eric Charnholm
San Diego, CA

wait, what's being sold? the Grizzly? The Centurion?
Parting it out and selling?
or just fishing for how much to sell it for?

marty


Not sure what to do with these parts. Thats why I was inquiring as to the reason behind their value (original post). They were just moments from going in the trash when I took a long look at the bike and thought "Man that rear deraileur is really nice. I wonder if I should keep it." Again, as mentioned in a previous post, the link to the Bianchi eBAY auction was in reference to a comment another member made. Its sounding like the components on this bike are worth more then the bike itself. I have never parted out a bike before (I enjoy building them too much). Just doesn't feel right to tear down this bike for parts. Its quite nice especially with having that ultra low gearing and is panier capable.

Thanks to everyone for their input...

Eric

http://thorin.adnc.com/~jimcharn/DSCNCent0599-01.jpg http://thorin.adnc.com/~jimcharn/DSCNCent0605-01.jpg

Anybody else notice the Freudian slip in that somewhat overwrought eBay ad copy?

"I then mixed a vile of Celeste green touch-up paint..."

What prompts a company to make a trademark of paint the color of a festering pustule? :lol:

Sorry to anyone offended by my stinky spam. Truely not meant to be spam. I was trying to make the point to Nick Burns comment: "Be careful not to place to much faith in estimating an item's worth by what it's selling for on ebay. People pay outrageous amounts for things there sometimes." I was trying to give an example of what a good auction looks like.

Haha, if you want to judge an item's worth by how much it sells for on ebay, knock yourself out. I've seen a lot of junk sell there for waaay too much money.

Don't get me wrong, I've advised people to check out ebay to see how much an item might sell for there. But you'd be best doing that over a duration of time to get an average.

Haha, if you want to judge an item's worth by how much it sells for on ebay, knock yourself out. I've seen a lot of junk sell there for waaay too much money.

Don't get me wrong, I've advised people to check out ebay to see how much an item might sell for there. But you'd be best doing that over a duration of time to get an average.


Thats exactly right. I totally agree with you. I also want to add that often when you see an item sell for some seemingly inflated price it usually IS inflated. Artifically inflated because of shill bidding. Its pretty easy to see when that is going on when you compare the hit counter on an item to the number of bids and price recieved. I'd say that 2 - 3% of eBAY auctions see shill bidding. I once set up a eBAY sale for a customer who he himself, unbenonst to me, bid on his own item to drive up the price. I found out about it with an hour to go in the auction during a phone conversation with the customer and cancelled the auction. Really ticked me off.

When it comes to items I know little about, but am learning, such as the aforementioned Sugino cranks... when I see a used set sell for, say, $85... do you think that is an accurate value or is it "ebAY inflation"? I'm asking seriously, not mocking here. I assume that at bicycle swap meet they may be had cheaper but the time, effort and cost of attending the swap meet probably counters any $ saved.

Eric

You have a complete classic 1970s touring bike. I, too, find the thought of parting it out a bit reprehensible.

You have a complete classic 1970s touring bike. I, too, find the thought of parting it out a bit reprehensible.
I agree.

You have a complete classic 1970s touring bike. I, too, find the thought of parting it out a bit reprehensible.



I wish I could figure out that model Centurion it is. Anyone know how I would go about doing that?



Eric

Say, what's the sticker at the top of the seat tube say? Does it say Tange 1 or 2?

There are many buyers on Ebay, myself included, who are always looking for vintage Suntour components.Often is the time when I see something I'd really like to have, for either a current project or something waiting in the wings, when wouldn't ya know it someone outbids me and the ensuing battle drives the price up.

That's a nice looking bike. If I were you I'd sit back for a while and watch some of the auctions, if only just to gauge the worth of what you have. You might be surprised when you add up all the bits and bobs.

Oh! What's the 2-letter date code on the front derailleur? It's located on the side of the cage facing your seat tube.

When it comes to items I know little about, but am learning, such as the aforementioned Sugino cranks... when I see a used set sell for, say, $85... do you think that is an accurate value or is it "ebAY inflation"? I'm asking seriously, not mocking here. I assume that at bicycle swap meet they may be had cheaper but the time, effort and cost of attending the swap meet probably counters any $ saved.

Given that Sugino cranks were used on a lot of bikes, they probably appear pretty often on ebay. Watching a bunch of Sugino auctions would give you a rough idea of their worth and maybe, but not definitely, help remove some of the ebay inflation effect.

Sometimes you're better off buying a whole bike for cheap on ebay and getting the parts you want that way, rather than wait for individual components to show up.

Say, what's the sticker at the top of the seat tube say? Does it say Tange 1 or 2?

There are many buyers on Ebay, myself included, who are always looking for vintage Suntour components.Often is the time when I see something I'd really like to have, for either a current project or something waiting in the wings, when wouldn't ya know it someone outbids me and the ensuing battle drives the price up.

That's a nice looking bike. If I were you I'd sit back for a while and watch some of the auctions, if only just to gauge the worth of what you have. You might be surprised when you add up all the bits and bobs.

Oh! What's the 2-letter date code on the front derailleur? It's located on the side of the cage facing your seat tube.


Date code says "SJ".
http://thorin.adnc.com/~jimcharn/DSCN0701.JPG

According to what Skip has at Vintage Trek for a suntour derailleur
the S would translate to 1976. No idea what the J stands for (oct?).

Marty

I don't know what model you're looking at here, but ask yourself: what would you have to pay to get a new lugged steel frame of decent quality today? A pretty penny, I'd say. A contemporary steel frame might be a touch lighter, but don't sweat the weight. Don't shrug it off, this is a great bike. The crank, and I have a thing for cranks, is beautiful. The forged crown logo is a classic. Never fails to make my heart flutter.

I don't know what model you're looking at here, but ask yourself: what would you have to pay to get a new lugged steel frame of decent quality today? A pretty penny, I'd say. A contemporary steel frame might be a touch lighter, but don't sweat the weight. Don't shrug it off, this is a great bike. The crank, and I have a thing for cranks, is beautiful. The forged crown logo is a classic. Never fails to make my heart flutter.


Well, I know what I paid. $80. And that was for 4 bikes, like this one, at a local police auction. I agree its valuable as far as a piece of history and, maybe more so, as art crafted by artisans. But in trying to determine a year make and model, I might get a better idea of the actual monetary value of the bike as a whole rather then a sum of its parts. Money isn't the end all when it comes to a vintage bike, that's for sure. My dream "vintage" bike would be a 1980 SR Semi Pro as it harkens back to my then burgeoning 13 year old cycling mind. What I'd pay for a mint, blue Semi Pro would make stately men blush. Valuable? No. Desirable? Yes! I figure this (1976?) Centurion is likely a $200-$250 bike as it sits. Thanks to everyone who helped me narrow it down!