Singlespeed & Fixed Gear - phil wood slipping

I'm having a problem with my phil wood rear hub slipping forward in the dropout. I've tightened it down as much as I can, but it will slide forward when a little pressure is put on the chain.
Ive also oticed that the serrated part of the hub (hits the instde if the dropout) is eating away at the dropout. Every time I tighten it down and loosen it metal shavings drift out. I can tell that it is digging into my frame.
Anyone else had any problems like this?

tim

What's the frame?

yar, whats the frame material?

and keep in mind that scraping paint away is one thing, while scraping metal away is a whole different story.

happy birthday to me!!!

use a chain tensioner/tug to secure it in place and offer a little protection to the track end.

the frame is a fuji track. steel. It's gone through the paint I'm afraid. When I tighten the drive side the whole axle turns unless I have the non-drive side tightened. Is is the turning of the axle that is scraping the frame. Its like the hub is just not getting a grip on the frame at all. The non-drive side doesn't have any problems at all.

I tried to use some of those MKS tensioners but due to poor design on fuji's part, the wheel had to be almost as the end of the drop to keep the tire from hitting the seat tube. Due to this, there isn't enough room to use the tensioners. I recently switched from a 16t to 17t and there is almost enough room to use it now but I tried and ended up almost stripping the tensioner screw somehow.

I was thinking it would be possible to get new, longer, and more durable track ends installed on the bike. anyone know what the price for something like that would be?

tim

what about a different tensioner? Like the Tuggnut?

how's your frame alignment?

I tried to use some of those MKS tensioners but due to poor design on fuji's part, the wheel had to be almost as the end of the drop to keep the tire from hitting the seat tube.

Something doesn't sound right here. I have never owned a Fuji, but that is pretty basic frame design.

What size tire/rim do you have? You aren't using a 27" wheel on a 700 frame? Are you using huge tires like 35's?

I noticed that with my Pista, the spacers on the original phil axles are like .5mm too wide for the dropouts, meaning that you can tighten it all the way down and it doesn't grip the frame tight enough. I surmise this is just because it's a cheap frame with cheap dropouts. I wasn't worried because I did a quick release conversion on my hubs which required me to change the axles and use a tensioner anyhow; but I can see how this would be really annoying.

I've thought about a different tensioner but just haven't gotten around to getting one. paying $25 for tensioners that don't work has made me a little cautious of buying online. (no LBS's carry those kinds of things here)

I'm running 700x23's. I could get a half-link to move my wheel in a little. taking out a whole link from the chain makes the wheel hit the seat tube.

It may be totally possible that, being a cheep frame, the spacing is not exactly 120mm. Thats probably something that I wouldn't have noticed when the cheeper wheels I had before. I'm going to try the wheel on my friend's spicer this weekend to see how it fits.

thanks for all the help.
any ideas on how much it would be to get the dropouts replaced/respaced?

tim

What unaesthetic said is right. What you do is file the washer/spacer down a bit. I just got some Phils and had the same problem, took it into my LBS and filed them down about half way there. Not a problem since.

Note, you may want to do this someplace like a bike shop, or be cautious about how much to file.

I have the fuji track frame.... and I didnt have that problem, but I did have a problem with tensioners. My rear wheel never slipped (or chewed away the metal thank goodness) but I just put on a set of those "star tensioners" ... I dont know the name of them, but they have stars on them and those seem to fit fine.... I got them from Stet, so maybe they have Stet magic on them....ewww.

If you go to your LBS, I am sure they will let you match up tensioners to your frame, for some reason Fuji made that frame all funky where most tensioners dont seem to fit.

goodluck.

You really want the hub to hold well enough without the chain tug, first of all. You don't want to be depending on the tugs for chain tension.

Second, you should expect to lose the paint on your stay ends. In fact, your hub will clamp down much better on bare metal than on paint. If you had an aluminum frame, you could really lock the hub down, although at the expense of galling the stay ends over time. With a steel frame, you certainly don't want any paint in the way, and then you want to clamp down pretty hard. I take a razor blade and shave off the paint where the hub needs to clamp -- go down to bare metal.

People using Phil Wood hubs sometimes can't get them to clamp down as hard on steel stay-ends as traditional track nuts. Two solutions: First, Phil has some BMX washers that are oversized conical washers with aggressive knurling on the surface that mates with the stay end. They're pretty nice and give a lot more grip -- they made a lot of difference on two of my steel track frames. Second, if you're using a regular allen key, you probably aren't getting enough leverage. I like the 6 mm Pedro's hex pedal wrench -- it's $8.95 and it lets you really crank down nicely on the hub bolts. I'm not into abusing torque ratings, but you'll never get to the required torque on those hubs if you don't have some leverage.

so, yeah. unaesthetic was right. I just didn't figure out what was described until last night after I had already fixed it. I just put another washer over the phil washer on the outside of the dropout. this prevents the phil washer from hitting the axle. now it holds tight and is as smooth as vegan butter. Odd that phil wood hasn't changed their design to accomodate this.
I was so excited after I discovered this that I went out and rode it before remembering to fully tighten the handlebar clamp. when I tried to skid the bars rolled under and I hit the ground, openeing up the wounds on my hand and knee that had just healed from when I got hit a few weeks ago. maybe something about ths wheel is just bad luck.

thanks to everyone who offered advice.

tim

if you want there's a crapload of chain tensioners at www.danscomp.com