Mountain Biking - Looking for a new bike, (suggestions welcome)

I've been riding on some pretty intense trails and I'm at the point where I find the need to upgrade my rigid fork bike to a front or full suspension, I've been looking at the Trek Alpha Aluminum 4500 and 6500 hardtail's, are they good bikes for the money? I want something good, not some piece of cheap crap.

Also not to sound like a newbie which in some ways I am... But can I use a freeride bike for up and downhill mountian biking?

You can ride a freeride bike up if you've got the strength for it. It'll be pretty dang heavy, since the parts are designed to take a beating.

The 4500 and 6500 aren't exactly freeride bikes though, and you might end up breaking those if you're doing some big stuff.

If you checked out the freeride hardtails sticky, you might be able to get a good feel for what's out there and how much it costs. The Kona Stuff is probably decent for trails, but again its going to be fairly heavy.

I'll answer the last question first: not unless your a REALLY incredible rider. Besides, based upon the criteria you've laid out here, you're probably not really looking at a freeride steed but, rather, an all mountain type bike.

Freeride bikes are heavy, built for huge drops and typically have very limited gear ranges for climbing. Add to that the fact that you're also going to spend A LOT of money to get a decent one, and you'll probably find that FR bikes are actually nowhere close to what you want.

"All mountain" bikes, on the other hand, are full suspension rides that generally have between 4" and 6" of travel (front and rear) and are built out weighing somewhere in the high 20lbs (for a nicer model with excellent componentry) to 30lbs range. These bikes typically climb well and decend well in most conditions and, just as their name suggests, they work for most trails. While they won't climb as well as an XC bike or decend as well as a FR/DH bike, they're typically the best choice for weekend warriors who like long climbs and technical decents.

The bikes that you mentioned in your original posts are much more along the XC lines as they're both hardtails. If that's all that's within your price range however, you could do much worse than the 6500 (my first MTB was actually the Trek 7000 back in 1999) as that's a very nice HT for the money.

Good luck finding a new ride.

CranxOC: My local bike shop has a Trek 8500 in stock, it's brand new and they are asking $1980 for it, is that a good all mountian bike? I would like something that is really light, but of course carbon fiber bikes are really super expensive so I'll stay with high end aluminum frames. Also I think I'd like to stay with a hardtail because I've rode a few good full suspension bikes and I find the solid rear end more solid. Course thats just my opinion. :P

Also, yeah I guess freeride isnt my style, cause I do a lot of uphill riding.

CranxOC: My local bike shop has a Trek 8500 in stock, it's brand new and they are asking $1980 for it, is that a good all mountian bike? I would like something that is really light, but of course carbon fiber bikes are really super expensive so I'll stay with high end aluminum frames. Also I think I'd like to stay with a hardtail because I've rode a few good full suspension bikes and I find the solid rear end more solid. Course thats just my opinion. :P

Also, yeah I guess freeride isnt my style, cause I do a lot of uphill riding.

If you have $2k to spend and you're looking for something that's going to climb like a demon and you don't want to get into really technical decents, then the Trek 8500 would be great (although I think you might be able to get it for closer to the $1600 range.) However, if you think you're going to spend some time doing technical decents while carrying some speed, my personal suggestion is to take that $2k, look at some good all mountain rides and invest there.

I ride a Specialized Stumpjumper FSR Pro and absolutely LOVE it and that can be had for close to the $2k range. Giant's new all mountain offering is also pretty tight (I can't remember the name right now) and there are numerous smaller brands that offer some incredible bikes for your price range. I am not however, a big fan of the Trek Fuel or Liquid but that's just my personal preferrence. Finally, if you're really into climbing and don't want a lot of travel in the rear, you can alway go with an XC FS rig that will allow you to decend faster than you could on a HT but won't be as "squishy" as the all mountain offerings.

Ultimately, I could write for hours and throw tons of suggestions out there but, in the end, you're going to have to decide what kind of riding you WANT to do and look at bikes that will fit your style.

All Mountain or All Mountain Lite, what about Aggressive XC, or YeOld XC... do I need a different bike for all of these?! ;)

All of these labels are getting insane, the vast majority of trails are easily ridden by good riders on 80mm travel hardtails, even 'technical' decents, just not at the same speed as on a bigger full squish bike. I enjoy riding an 'xc hardtail' because it makes technical riding more challenging, if I wanted things to be easy I'd just sit on my couch.

*end rant*

The 8500 should suit you fine, both uphill and down. If you do find the need to do 3+ foot drops and set downhill speed records then look into getting a bigger bike, but based on what you describe I think you'll be happy with the 8500.

CranxOC: My local bike shop has a Trek 8500 in stock, it's brand new and they are asking $1980 for it, is that a good all mountian bike? I would like something that is really light, but of course carbon fiber bikes are really super expensive so I'll stay with high end aluminum frames. Also I think I'd like to stay with a hardtail because I've rode a few good full suspension bikes and I find the solid rear end more solid. Course thats just my opinion. :P

Also, yeah I guess freeride isnt my style, cause I do a lot of uphill riding.

http://www2.trekbikes.com/Assets/Bikes/Mountain/Hardtail/ZR_9000/8500/asset_upload_file775_3313.jpg
Is it this bike? The Trek web site (http://www2.trekbikes.com/Bikes/Mountain/Hardtail/ZR_9000/8500/index.php) has it listed at $2,309.99. I'm sure it would be a great bike for you.

Yeah that's the one.

You can ride a freeride bike up if you've got the strength for it. It'll be pretty dang heavy, since the parts are designed to take a beating.

yes only if your in really good shape. long travel bikes are NOT pedaling bikes. like the one guy said all mountain is the way to go

All Mountain or All Mountain Lite, what about Aggressive XC, or YeOld XC... do I need a different bike for all of these?! ;)

All of these labels are getting insane, the vast majority of trails are easily ridden by good riders on 80mm travel hardtails, even 'technical' decents, just not at the same speed as on a bigger full squish bike. I enjoy riding an 'xc hardtail' because it makes technical riding more challenging, if I wanted things to be easy I'd just sit on my couch.

*end rant*

The 8500 should suit you fine, both uphill and down. If you do find the need to do 3+ foot drops and set downhill speed records then look into getting a bigger bike, but based on what you describe I think you'll be happy with the 8500.

I agree with your point abou the labels; in my mind there really are only two categories when it comes to trail riding: Full blown XC and All Mountain. The XC bikes have now become lighter and faster and very climbing specific and the rest (probably the majority of the MTBs out there) are some form of all mountain (I believe "aggressive XC" has now fully morphed into what is now known as "all mountain.")

Also, I'm going to totally disagree with you about FS making rides as "easy" as you claim (I've had this argument before.) FS bikes generally just make certain, bone-jarring sections of trail a lot more plush and rideable and allow you to do certain sections of trails that would otherwise be very difficult for the casual rider. Rather than just saying that FS bikes make things easy, I prefer to think that they simply shorten the learning curve by allowing people to conquer trails faster than they could on a HT.

As for Tweek (our thread starter) I really think he needs to try a couple of bikes out (both FS and HT) before anyone tells him he should do this or he shouldn't do that. He also needs to figure out what kind of riding style he wants to participate in and what the trails that he'll be riding most are like.

Personally, I’ve owned both and I can’t ever imagine going back to a HT bike on a full time basis after experiencing a truly well designed FS bike.

Some other good freeride hardtails are:

Cove Stiffee FR
Banshee Scirocco
Santa Cruz Chameleon
Jamis Komodo FX 2.0
Brodie Hellion
Norco Rampage

Since I've run out of things to do here at the office, here are some $2,000, all mountain style bikes that you might want to consider:

http://www.specialized.com/SBCBkModel.jsp?spid=9666
http://www.specialized.com/SBCBkModel.jsp?spid=9688
http://www.giant-bicycle.com/us/030.000.000/030.000.000.asp?model=11150
http://www.giant-bicycle.com/us/030.000.000/030.000.000.asp?model=11146
http://yeticycles.com/1_bikes/575_raw.html - Great bike but very limited distribution.
http://www.tomac.com/bikes/2005/eli.aspx

As I said, I'm not a big fan of the Liquid or the Fuel but I do know people who love theirs so here are the links:

http://www2.trekbikes.com/en/Bikes/Mountain/Full_Suspension/Fuel/Fuel_EX_8/index.php
http://www2.trekbikes.com/en/Bikes/Mountain/Full_Suspension/Liquid/Liquid_55/index.php


There are a ton of other manufacturers out there but they're either well outside the $2k you have to spend or I'm just personally very fond of them so I wouldn't recommend them.

Some other good freeride hardtails are:

Cove Stiffee FR
Banshee Scirocco
Santa Cruz Chameleon
Jamis Komodo FX 2.0
Brodie Hellion
Norco Rampage

I think he's off the FR thing and looking for something XC or AM

You guys are all so great! It won't be until the end of April til I finally upgrade my bike cause I just moved to TN and I've yet to get a job, I'd not want to blow all the saved cash I have without knowing I'm getting a job. On a side note, I'm looking for a decent backpack to carry my biking supplies in, I've been told The North Face - Megamouth 18 will be my best bet, anyone had experience with The North Face stuff?

http://www.thenorthface.com/opencms/opencms/tnf/gear.jsp?productId=1676

North face, good stuff. EMS carries a lot of their stuff. In facy my daily winter hat is a north face :)

ok. There is barely ANY difference betweent the 4500 and the 6500, Other than a huge price difference. If I had to choose, I'd take the 4500. The Trek 8500 is NOT a carbon fibre bike. It's Zr 9000 custom alloy. An excellent all mountain bike is the Norco Charger.

http://www.norco.com/05/2005bikes/allmountain.php

You guys are all so great! It won't be until the end of April til I finally upgrade my bike cause I just moved to TN and I've yet to get a job, I'd not want to blow all the saved cash I have without knowing I'm getting a job. On a side note, I'm looking for a decent backpack to carry my biking supplies in, I've been told The North Face - Megamouth 18 will be my best bet, anyone had experience with The North Face stuff?

http://www.thenorthface.com/opencms/opencms/tnf/gear.jsp?productId=1676

Good luck with the job search. Since you have time before you think you'll do something take a look at the Kona line of bikes. It's certainly not for everybody but why be like everybody? Here are 2 bike I think might be a good idea for you. This is the bike I'll be upgrading to later this year
2005 model Kona Dawg Dee-Lux (http://konaworld.com/shopping_cart/FrontEnd/Products/product_detail.aspx?productid=99&parentid=182). I'm going to order a Dawg Primo frame and swap the part from my Caldera. This is a Kona HT that is in the price range of the Trek. 2005 model Kona Kula Deluxe (http://konaworld.com/shopping_cart/FrontEnd/Products/product_detail.aspx?productid=93&parentid=182) Good luck and try as many different bike as you can.

I don't know anything about backpacks but I like North Face.

Wow! Original 6, Thanks for showing me thoes Kona bikes, thoes are hot. Do the front forks on them have adjustments similar to the RockShox Reba on the Trek 8500?

Good luck with the job search. Since you have time before you think you'll do something take a look at the Kona line of bikes. It's certainly not for everybody but why be like everybody? Here are 2 bike I think might be a good idea for you. This is the bike I'll be upgrading to later this year
2005 model Kona Dawg Dee-Lux (http://konaworld.com/shopping_cart/FrontEnd/Products/product_detail.aspx?productid=93&parentid=182). I'm going to order a Dawg Primo frame and swap the part from my Caldera. This is a Kona HT that is in the price range of the Trek. 2005 model Kona Kula Deluxe (http://konaworld.com/shopping_cart/FrontEnd/Products/product_detail.aspx?productid=93&parentid=182) Good luck and try as many different bike as you can.

I don't know anything about backpacks but I like North Face.


The first link is to the Kula Deluxe aswell; Kona Dawg Dee-Lux (http://konaworld.com/shopping_cart/FrontEnd/Products/product_detail.aspx?productid=99&parentid=182)

For $2000 you can get a great HT or an average FS. I would get the Kona Kula. I am of course a little biased because I have one.

Get a HT it can do everything well and some stuff the best. I am talking about trails without 4-5 foot drops. I do 2-3 foot drops with zero problems.

Feltup: Is it true the Kula frame has very delicate paint and can chip really easy?

Feltup: Is it true the Kula frame has very delicate paint and can chip really easy?

I didn't really notice it chipping any more than my other bikes. Of couse I stripped it a couple of months ago so I isn't an issue at all now.

I want something good, not some piece of cheap crap.



Definately a Moots Cinco. Perfect for you. All mountain variety.

Has to be with full xtr drivetrain, hope mono minis and any wheelset hand built with king hubs

I have three and I love them.

check it out

http://www.moots.com/bike-mtn-cinco.php

Hope it helps your decision

Definately a Moots Cinco. Perfect for you. All mountain variety.

Has to be with full xtr drivetrain, hope mono minis and any wheelset hand built with king hubs

I have three and I love them.

check it out

http://www.moots.com/bike-mtn-cinco.php

Hope it helps your decision

Did you happen to notice his $2000 budget?

Yeah I'd like to keep it at or slightly below $2000 if possible, I'm gonna definatly go for an HT.

Also you guys can probably answer this question, I'm 5'8" tall about what size bike should I get? I don't even have a clue what size my Trek 800 Sport is, I just picked it up at a bike store in FL 3 years ago, I didn't really get much help from the salesman either. I see most bikes offer sizes from 15 to 21"

The first link is to the Kula Deluxe aswell; Kona Dawg Dee-Lux (http://konaworld.com/shopping_cart/FrontEnd/Products/product_detail.aspx?productid=99&parentid=182)

I fixed it.. Thanks :o

Wow, what the heck am I doing inside on my computer?!?! It's a wonderful 72°F outside, perfect for riding!!

You should really have a salesman size a bike for you, but I would guess you'd end up with something around 15-17". I'd find a different shop if they don't offer assistance with this, especially on a high end bike. Different people are of different proportions though so this is really something you have to go try out. Personal preference (how the bike feels to you) also plays a role. You might be turned off a certain bike entirely because its geometry doesn't suit you. Some of the basics of fitting include getting full leg extension when pedaling and having proper clearance over the top tube of the frame. I have a cheaper bike, but simply having one that fits me is a night and day difference compared to department store bikes. I'd also check out steel framed bikes in your budget if you want a hardtail.

Where is the spot you measure to find out how big it is? if I was to guess I'd say my Trek is a 18" but I'm not sure. I like how my bike feels, I can stand on the ground without the top frame tube (whatever you pros call it) doesn't hit my crotch.

Looking at the Trek website it says the 800 Sport came in 13", 16.5", 18", 19.5", 21", 22.5"

Well according to the dimensions I got off the Trek website, mine is the 18".

I believe frame size is measured from the bottom bracket to the top of the seat tube.

Yeah I'd like to keep it at or slightly below $2000 if possible, I'm gonna definatly go for an HT.

Just curious...why? Are you planning on racing?

No, but I have a thing for spending way more on something than I should. :P

I think he's off the FR thing and looking for something XC or AM

I dont know whats up with my FR kick lately. Thats all I think about nowadays. But after riding yesterday and thoroughly loving a technical XC trail, Im beginning to wonder if its just a phase and if Im more All Mountain. Honestly, I dont know the difference anymore :D

Did you happen to notice his $2000 budget?

It was meant as a bit of humor. sorry no emoticons

but seriously, if you have a 2000 budget, no reason to just go hardtail, especially if you want ONE bike to do all things. At 2g's you could get a decent fs, I think. look for new 2004 bikes that you can get 3-5 hundred off

I'd say either the Kula Dee

or a Santa Cruz Chameleon. The Chameleon is now considered as an All mountain hardtail since SC released the jackall.

I'd say either the Kula Dee

or a Santa Cruz Chameleon. The Chameleon is now considered as an All mountain hardtail since SC released the jackall.

Good call... You should definetely look at Santa Cruz too.

It was meant as a bit of humor. sorry no emoticons

but seriously, if you have a 2000 budget, no reason to just go hardtail, especially if you want ONE bike to do all things. At 2g's you could get a decent fs, I think. look for new 2004 bikes that you can get 3-5 hundred off

I agree completely. While there are still those out there who believe that HTs are the "be all and end all" of MTB'ing, they're rare and most of them either haven't really spent any time on a good FS ride or their total weight weenies who count every gram to the point of neurosis. Unless you're planning to do some serious racing, there's no reason to purchase a $2k HT.

Tweek, make sure you do some serious homework on this one before you go plunking down 2 grrr on that Trek; I think you'll find that you'll be a lot happier with a good FS bike than you will be with HT.

I agree completely. While there are still those out there who believe that HTs are the "be all and end all" of MTB'ing, they're rare and most of them either haven't really spent any time on a good FS ride or their total weight weenies who count every gram to the point of neurosis. Unless you're planning to do some serious racing, there's no reason to purchase a $2k HT.

Tweek, make sure you do some serious homework on this one before you go plunking down 2 grrr on that Trek; I think you'll find that you'll be a lot happier with a good FS bike than you will be with HT.

I think he gets your point. He wants a HT so leave it at that. He wants a great frame and component group in a super light weight package, get over it. Or maybe he is just one of those horrible weight weenies.

Well the main reason I've looked into HT is because I've seen and rode a few FS that the rear shock bottomes out very easily even when adjusted. I'd really like a FS though if I can find one that has plenty of non-bottoming suspension travel. Also I was mainly looking at the Trek 8500 because it comes with the cool RockShox Reba with the PopLoc adjustable remote on the handlebars, that's cool. In the end all I'm really looking for is a reasonably light and durable bike, and I'm willing to spend as much as $2000 to get it.

I think he gets your point. He wants a HT so leave it at that. He wants a great frame and component group in a super light weight package, get over it. Or maybe he is just one of those horrible weight weenies.

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about here. He never said any of those things so how on Earth can you reach the conclusions that you have? I'm telling him to do his homework and ride a couple of bikes both with and without FS and make the decision for himself. Talk about "getting over it," you might want to look in the mirror before you start calling any one else out chief.

chief.

Calm down buddy. Not a good first impression to make if ya know what I mean.

What do you guys think of the Trek Fuel EX 8? It's retail is a little over my budget but maybe it would be worth it in the long rung.. btw at any time tell me if I'm looking in the wrong place for a good bike with a good value and by that I mean Trek, I'm just looking at Trek because I have one now and it's been really good to me. I'm also looking at the Stumpjumper FSR Expert Disc 120 which is getting awesome reviews on mtbr.com also slighly over my planned budget for a bike but I could pull it off.

btw at any time tell me if I'm looking in the wrong place for a good bike with a good value and by that I mean Trek, I'm just looking at Trek because I have one now and it's been really good to me.

I don't think I would ever own a Trek but I would never tell someone not to get one. They make very good bikes. I have many friends who own Trek bikes and would ride nothing else. I can't say exactly why I don't like them but they just don't feel right when I ride.

I'm glad I'm taking a little time off before I go job hunting, it gives me time to research every bike possible, there are so many good bikes out there, me going crazy ahhhh :)

go with the 4500, it has a great fork for the money, and you is a good trasition from rigid-to-suspension.

Well the main reason I've looked into HT is because I've seen and rode a few FS that the rear shock bottomes out very easily even when adjusted. I'd really like a FS though if I can find one that has plenty of non-bottoming suspension travel. Also I was mainly looking at the Trek 8500 because it comes with the cool RockShox Reba with the PopLoc adjustable remote on the handlebars, that's cool. In the end all I'm really looking for is a reasonably light and durable bike, and I'm willing to spend as much as $2000 to get it.

Most stable platform shocks will solve that problem for you. Fox ProPedal, Manitou Swingers and Fifth Element shocks are present on many bikes in your price range and are exceptionally rigid when climbing.

Calm down buddy. Not a good first impression to make if ya know what I mean.

Not sure what you mean about a first impression but I was just a little miffed by the other guys post. No big deal, this is just a MB after all.
;)

Why are you miffed? I happen to believe that a person should start out on a HT. If later they want to get a FS so be it. A good HT will last a lifetime. Less to maintain and less to lug on climbs. I think that a $2000 HT is a much better investment than a $2000 FS. I also deducted that from the price range he wanted a great frame and group in a light weight package. Because that is what you get for $2000.

Look Tweek don't be fooled into thinking you won't be as good a rider unless you have FS. You actually will be better at a lot of things. You will lose the ability to do some bigger drops etc with a HT; it depends on your lines and your trails.