Road Bike Racing - Simoni Out!

I just read that Saeco has pulled Simoni from the Giro.
Report is that Saeco was approached by tour director
who said alot of the other teams wanted him out
(no surprise given he was probably going to win).
Now they are questioning his riding in TdF.
If he doesn't I don't really see anyone giving
Lance any challenge at all.
(SIGH) I'm really tired of all this.

Marty :(

Seems that Saeco considered making a fight of it, but Simoni decided to pack it in. Seems he doesn't want to jeopardize his chances with the Tour [the STdF could withdraw the invitation] by seeming obdurate an uncooperative and he wants to get this whole thing cleared up so he can race in July [and kick Armstrong's butt :D]. Besides, I can imagine that it's difficult to race with that kind of thing hanging over him.

The problem here isn't doping, but the reaction to perceived doping. I can understand how the pro cycling community wants to be as lilly-white as possible, since it got really badly spanked by the Festina scandal in 1998, but the pendulum has swung waaaaaaay past the other way...

This zero tolerance thing is nuts. Garzelli dumped for testing positive for a drug that has no performance-enhancing properties and in concentrations that mean it could not have been used as a masking agent, Simoni dumped for testing positive for trace quantities of metabolites of a drug that has no performance-enhancing properties and could very well have been a dental anaesthetic [apparently the technology used to diferentiate between the molecular structure of metabolities of cocaine and lidocaine and carbocaine is very unreliable, to say the least], Jonathan Vaughters' wasp sting last year and now Sebastien Demarbaix forced to retire because the UCI would not permit testosterone treatment for his osteoporosis.

This is all totally ridiculous. We live in a world where people are treated using drugs and some of those drugs may turn up on drug tests even if they do not enhance performance. Hell, even if Simoni was snorting coke, then that's his business. It may be stupid and it may be a crime, but it's not cheating, and he shouldn't be excluded from competition because of it.

It's a damned good thing that Anquetil and Coppi and the other greats weren't held to this insane puritannical standard of zsro tolerance. It's impossible to live up to.

I totally agree.
The whole situation is becoming more
of a witch hunt.
I personally think that if a drug is used (perscribed)
and that use is documented, and it isn't a
performance enhancer, that the rider should be
allowed to compete. Yeah the UCI has loosened
up a bit (the Vaughters debacle) but the current
atmosphere is ridiculous.
The current atmosphere of paranoia (ala USPS)
appears warrented given the Garzelli situation.
Look at the accusations thrown at Ullrich when
all that was involved was a steroidal creme
to treat saddle sores, gimme a break.

Marty

I do think that it is wrong that other teams can pressure a rider out of the race before all the test results. That truly is witchhunting.

The truly sad thing here is that there is no way out of the dilemma. As soon as the zero tolerance attitude loosens again, riders will again start to cheat. Then a new crackdown and we're back where we started. Or just wait for the next great performance enhancer--the one that turns you into superman, but leaves no discernable traces. Perhaps it's already being used and UCI just hasn't figured out what it is or how to check it.

The pressure on the riders is so high. The pendulum will continue to swing. And the problem affects virtually all sports. Curling is probably the one exception (those guys never get caught).

Cheers,
Jamie

Originally posted by velocipedio
Hell, even if Simoni was snorting coke, then that's his business. It may be stupid and it may be a crime, but it's not cheating, and he shouldn't be excluded from competition because of it.
I gotta disagree. If cocaine usage is illegal in Italy that's certainly as bad, (actually, worse IMO) albeit for different reasons, than using performance enhancing drugs.

I thought Simoni had just recently won a stage in the Giro, that's an odd time to pull him out. Cocaine isn't even a performance enhancing drug and if anything it would do more bad than good.

Originally posted by roadbuzz
I gotta disagree. If cocaine usage is illegal in Italy that's certainly as bad, (actually, worse IMO) albeit for different reasons, than using performance enhancing drugs.
Actually, I'm not sure if use is illegal, or even possession, though I'm sure trafficking is.

Nevertheless, there's not much of a case to be made for cocaine as a performance-enhancer. If Simoni used it recreationally -- and for the record, I doubt that -- then that's something quite different from using dop to cheat. Cheating is what the anti-doping guys should be looking out for, not sin and iniquity.

What? Racers who break dope laws should not be allowed to race even if the drugs used are not performance-enhancing? What about racers who cheat on their tax returns or fail to declare import items at customs? Maybe there should be a commission to root out cyclists who shoot craps or play cards at un-sanctioned and therefore illegal gambling establishments [like church basements]?

The whole thing is ridiculous. Thew anti-doping campaign should focus on cheating, not lifestyle choices. What next? Are they going to go after racers who cheat on their wives? Hey, at least that might have more relevance to the issue of cheating.

This is CRAP! Yeah, what team"s" want him out? Besides Fassa Bortolo?

Maybe they should test EVERY rider after EVERY stage of EVERY race and just get it over with. I am strictly anti-doping, but this is getting ridiculous. Look what happened to Jonathan Vaughters in last year's TDF.

I don't think anyone mentioned yet that given Garzelli's departure, it was somewhat fair that Simoni left. There's that fairness thing again.

And after LeBlanc waded into the Garzelli issue, fears for the TdF could have been very real as well.

He did win - the day before in the mountains.

Cheers...Gary

Originally posted by velocipedio
Actually, I'm not sure if use is illegal, or even possession, though I'm sure trafficking is.
And neither am I, which is why I qualified my statement with a conditional.

In my opinion, the laws of the UCI, or whatever organization, cannot supersede or exempt participants from the "law of the land." It's not their bailiwick to investigate areas outside those that impact cycling or performance. In the US, a dubious model but the one that I'm familiar with, an organization cannot have knowledge of an illegal activity and permit it without implicitly condoning it. In this instance, I think it means the UCI cannot have any knowledge, and consequently, must not test for any substance that doesn't have performance enhancing properties.

And, yes, I think that they are within their rights as an organization to ban any participant who breaks the law. There's a large gray area as to the hows and whens of enforcement. Suspicion of murder (as in Am. football) vs. tax evasion or, perhaps, driving with an open can of beer in the car (illegal in most US states). Glad I don't have to decide.

All that said, Cocaine is a stimulant, and I'll bet you it has been tried, on raceday, in the peloton. ;)

I agree that the whole zero tolerance thing is out of hand. And the fact that it can turn the Giro d'Italia or Tour de France into a farce is a cryin' shame. We spend a lot of time slamming the sanctioning bodies because of the lousy parameters and difficulties of enforcement. In spite of the lousy job, I think they are to be commended for making the effort. The olympic are, apparently, the only other venue that anyone gives a rats@ss about the use of performance enhancing drugs. It's also further evidence that detection and enforcement is difficult and awkward.

PED use is widespread in all professional sports, and if cycling were as popular and produced as much wealth as other professional sports, it too would be largely exempt from scrutiny.

It seems we have a basic difference of opinion. Mine is that criminal offenses and investigations should be handled by criminal authorities and not sports governing bodies. The latter's only interest in drugs and lifestyle should be in whether these constitute cheating. I wouild agree that an athlete convicted of a serious crime like murder, assault, ****, trafficking should be suspended or expelled, but I'm not comfortable with the idea of having athletes forced out of competition on the suspicion of having committed a crime.

I'm not sure that cocaine is still or should be considered a PED by cycling. Its use was widespread in the 1920s and 1930s. Henri Pelissier, forced out of the 1921 Tour, spoke to a journalist in the famous "Forcats de la route" article: "Ça, c'est de la cocaïne pour les yeux, ça c'est du chloroforme pour les gencives..." In the 1950s and 1960s, the stimulants of choice were amphetamines.

The problem with these drugs, and the reason why they aren't used as PEDs today, is that, in the quantities necessary to actually enhance performance in one area [momentary strength, alertness, etc.], they degrade performance in others. Cocaine, even in small quantities, causes muscular contractions, raises blood pressure and in very likely to cause herat attacks and strokes at high exertion levels. Amphetamines have many of the same effects -- look at Tom Simpson's death in 1967.

If Simoni, or anyone, was taking a PED, it would not be cocaine, which is (a) of dubious value as a PED, (b) very easily traced, (c) well-known.

If, on the other hand, he was using it recreationally, then that's his business. I'm sure there are members of the peloton who drank alcohol under-age or who smoked or continue to smoke pot. I'm reminded of the case of Russ Rebagliati in the 1998 Winter Olympics, having his gold medal yanked for testing positive for pot. Aside fromt he obvious question of, where you might find a word-class snowboarder who wouldn't test positive for pot, you have to ask why the IOC was even testing for it in the first place? The argument that it's a PED is tenuous at best... Is it just that the athlete didn't have a sqeaky-clean lifestyle?

Geez... I hate squeaky clean!

I think I'm just going to bow out of this
conversation/thread.
I think its fair to say that whatever the UCI sees
fit to do, it should be done right.
i.e. Garzelli staying in even tho there was the pact
that any rider with non negative should be withdrawn.
The problem is there will always be PEDs with new
ones coming out all the time, and testing lagging behind.
Either we have Zero Tolerance (and I mean zero, including
recreational drug use) or we let it go wide open and
take a don't know, don't see tact.

Marty

Originally posted by lotek
I think I'm just going to bow out of this
conversation/thread.

And I'm not particularly interested in taking it any further in the direction I sent it. I wanted to throw my $0.02 out there, and I did...