Bicycle Mechanics - New Shimano hubs and spokes

Last night on my way home I stopped at REI to test ride/drool over a bike or two. I saw some new Shimano wheelsets on a road bike or two, and noticed that the spokes don't attach to the hubs in the normal way. Instead of having a hooked end that fits into the flange, the flange has all these flat sections on it and there's something like a spoke nipple that attaches the spoke to the hub.

Why is this? Is this a better technology for low spoke-count wheels or something?

Last night on my way home I stopped at REI to test ride/drool over a bike or two. I saw some new Shimano wheelsets on a road bike or two, and noticed that the spokes don't attach to the hubs in the normal way. Instead of having a hooked end that fits into the flange, the flange has all these flat sections on it and there's something like a spoke nipple that attaches the spoke to the hub.

Why is this? Is this a better technology for low spoke-count wheels or something?Just another way to skin the cat.

Just another way to skin the cat.
So it's more along the lines of "Shimano doing something silly that breaks compatibility" rather than "Shimano coming up with something brilliant"?

It's acutally because if you move rotating mass toward the center of an object, you can go faster. The few grams from those few nipples moved to the center of the hub makes you "go faster".
Lower roating mass= faster.
Rotating mass closer to hub = faster.

So it's more along the lines of "Shimano doing something silly that breaks compatibility" rather than "Shimano coming up with something brilliant"?Something to be said for the brilliant design behind a traditional hub/spoke/rim.The new OCR rims are something useful.

The few grams from those few nipples moved to the center of the hub makes you "go faster".


Shimano's marketing experts have determined that we can all go faster if they lighten our wallets. I have nothing against Shimano, I just don't find their current product line to offer much in the way of value. You can find comparable quality in other equipment at a better price. They're eventually going to lose the battle to SRAM's quest for world domination.

It's acutally because if you move rotating mass toward the center of an object, you can go faster. The few grams from those few nipples moved to the center of the hub makes you "go faster".
Lower roating mass= faster.
Rotating mass closer to hub = faster.

You're looking at the wrong component. The big issue with low spoke count wheels is heavy rims. The original Shimano concept was that by putting the spoke into the side of the rim they could avoid having to reinforce the center of the rim to handle the spoke tension. I went to a Shimano seminar several years ago and actually got certified to work on their wheels.

You're looking at the wrong component. The big issue with low spoke count wheels is heavy rims. The original Shimano concept was that by putting the spoke into the side of the rim they could avoid having to reinforce the center of the rim to handle the spoke tension. I went to a Shimano seminar several years ago and actually got certified to work on their wheels.
So it's all about reducing the moment of inertia I guess... seems like a good idea to me.

What I don't understand is: the rims still have to bear the same spoke tension regardless of how the spoke attaches, right? How do the spokes attach to the rims on the wheels with the nipples on the hub?

i doubt thers any advantage worth mentioning. People tend to get cranky if theres nothing new out there, and im my opinion thats why these manufacturers make these low spoke count wheels and whatnot.

I was originally going to get some 105 wheels (the black very low spoke count ones) but here's a few reasons why I didn't:

They're pretty weighty
They don't have sealed cartridge bearings in the hubs (why????!Everyone else's have!)
If one of the few spokes breaks, you're buggered (see stories in this forum)
I found some Ksyrium Elites '04 going very cheap!

On the plus side though, they are pretty cheap and are really strong.

The 'inverted spoke' design is indeed to avoid having to reinforce the rims to a stupid degree - see the Shimano site.

A good idea but why not use sealed cartridge technology - it's so superior.

Matt

Cartridge bearings are fine pieces of technology :)

....but why not use sealed cartridge technology - it's so superior.

MattWell, actually it's isn't.There was a long thread a short time ago....

What I don't understand is: the rims still have to bear the same spoke tension regardless of how the spoke attaches, right? How do the spokes attach to the rims on the wheels with the nipples on the hub?

If you lay a board across two sawhorses, it will sag more if you lay it flat than it will if you set it on edge. The shimano wheels install the crook of the spoke in the rim's sidewall so that it has more material to pull against than just the thickness of the aluminum at the rim's apex..

If you lay a board across two sawhorses, it will sag more if you lay it flat than it will if you set it on edge. The shimano wheels install the crook of the spoke in the rim's sidewall so that it has more material to pull against than just the thickness of the aluminum at the rim's apex..
Aha! Thanks, now I can picture it. Should've taken a good look at the store.