Bicycle Mechanics - Wheels built without spoke prep -- what now?

So I was riding my spare wheelset, purchased from lovely Nashbar, and discovered that the nipples kept coming unscrewed as I was riding. Which was lovely. I'd never had that much wobble in my life. Eventually I just tightened everything down super tight to be able to ride it, so much so that it threw my wheel out of true enough that I had to undo the rear brake to get home. I took it to the LBS, who said that all it needs is some spoke prep -- but that was the labor equivalent of a wheel rebuild.

So what now? These are $100 wheels, and $40 labor for each at a shop is kind of absurd. And spoke prep seems only to come in $30 bottles. . .

Forgive me if this was addressed in the recent threads about spoke prep -- I was unable to find a solution to my problem. If there is one, please link to it.

Thanks.

So I was riding my spare wheelset, purchased from lovely Nashbar, and discovered that the nipples kept coming unscrewed as I was riding. Which was lovely. I'd never had that much wobble in my life. Eventually I just tightened everything down super tight to be able to ride it, so much so that it threw my wheel out of true enough that I had to undo the rear brake to get home. I took it to the LBS, who said that all it needs is some spoke prep -- but that was the labor equivalent of a wheel rebuild.

So what now? These are $100 wheels, and $40 labor for each at a shop is kind of absurd. And spoke prep seems only to come in $30 bottles. . .

Forgive me if this was addressed in the recent threads about spoke prep -- I was unable to find a solution to my problem. If there is one, please link to it.

Thanks.
Bring them back to Nashbar. Spoke prep over here can be got for 7-10, are you sure you cannot get a smaller bottle, maybe your lbs will sell you a small quatity

So I was riding my spare wheelset, purchased from lovely Nashbar, and discovered that the nipples kept coming unscrewed as I was riding. Which was lovely. I'd never had that much wobble in my life. Eventually I just tightened everything down super tight to be able to ride it, so much so that it threw my wheel out of true enough that I had to undo the rear brake to get home. I took it to the LBS, who said that all it needs is some spoke prep -- but that was the labor equivalent of a wheel rebuild.

So what now? These are $100 wheels, and $40 labor for each at a shop is kind of absurd. And spoke prep seems only to come in $30 bottles. . .

Forgive me if this was addressed in the recent threads about spoke prep -- I was unable to find a solution to my problem. If there is one, please link to it.

Thanks.A properly tensioned spoke does not require a locker on the nipple. Jobst Brandt uses plain oil.

A properly tensioned spoke does not require a locker on the nipple. Jobst Brandt uses plain oil.

My LBS uses oil also.

those are probably cheap machine built wheels, without good spoke tension. All what has been said is correct, if its of good spoke tension it shouldn't need it. But I think its good to use, it does lubricate. I know that you can get this stuff called spoke freeze which i believe is applied after the build, just a drop on each nipple. But its very expensive, you might be able to find a shop that uses the stuff though and ask them for a drop.

Nashbar should have included that as standard practice, likely someone is cutting corners or just plain scamming you.

The first thing that I would do would be to equalize the tension and retrue the wheels. If it was my bike, I'd just ride them that way, dry, and see what happens. I've built several wheels with no spoke prep at all and never had any problems with them. It's very possible to have nice straight wheels with significant variations in spoke tension. That's the condition that you are trying to avoid. If you don't have a tensiometer, at least try the spoke pluck test and try to get every spoke to have the same tone.

If that doesn't work, I'd redo them again but this time after I was done I'd give each spoke a drop of post application locktite. Read the package carefully because it looks very similar to the blue locktite package.

Plan "C" for me would be a complete rebuild with new spokes (preped this time), but I seriously doubt it will come to that.

I agree with retro grouch here. If you decide at some point to upgrade your wheels next time, just make sure the stuff is of high enough quality that spoke prep is used. spoke prep is a plus, not a required

Thanks for all your help to everyone. These wheels weren't significantly undertensioned when I left -- I actually did true the wheels and tension the spokes on Friday night, and they came all out of whack while I was riding early Saturday morning.

When I went last night to see about completely retruing, a couple of the nipples had again come unscrewed, so I'm not sure that they'll hold even with a good amount of tension.

I guess I'll call Nashbar now, and see.

This is the backup/training set, by the way. I ride on worse roads than most of the people here, I believe, so I sort of have to have a second set, since the roads (and drivers!) are constantly mangling my rims.

Thanks again, everyone.

I wonder whether the wheel was built using a slightly bent rim.

I'm not an expert or anything but I've built a number of wheels and never used spoke prep. Well actually, I tried it once and hated it. Spoke prep is a type of thread lock and it makes it difficult to true the wheel because the spokes tend to twist and windup. Spoke prep works best on low spoke count wheels where there's lots of tension on each spoke which tends to release when loaded and unloaded - thus causing the nipple to unthread.

It sounds like the wheels were just poorly tensioned. Calling Nashbar sounds like the best place to start.

Ed

I'm not an expert or anything but I've built a number of wheels and never used spoke prep. Well actually, I tried it once and hated it. Spoke prep is a type of thread lock and it makes it difficult to true the wheel because the spokes tend to twist and windup. Spoke prep works best on low spoke count wheels where there's lots of tension on each spoke which tends to release when loaded and unloaded - thus causing the nipple to unthread.

It sounds like the wheels were just poorly tensioned. Calling Nashbar sounds like the best place to start.

Ed
Did it really make it harder? I thought it was supposed to be a lubricant and locker. I've had much luck since i got it, its not cheap though i will say. Well it is and it isnt, i mean 20 bucks for a 15ml bottle but 15ml lasts a long time.

Did it really make it harder? I thought it was supposed to be a lubricant and locker. I've had much luck since i got it, its not cheap though i will say. Well it is and it isnt, i mean 20 bucks for a 15ml bottle but 15ml lasts a long time.

Most definitely harder. But the real problem is because the nipples don't want to turn you twist the spoke when trying to true the wheel. This is a bigger problem with thin spokes as apposed to thick ones.

At any rate, I don't use low spoke count wheels and don't use spoke prep either.

So I was riding my spare wheelset, purchased from lovely Nashbar, and discovered that the nipples kept coming unscrewed as I was riding. Which was lovely. I'd never had that much wobble in my life. Eventually I just tightened everything down super tight to be able to ride it, so much so that it threw my wheel out of true enough that I had to undo the rear brake to get home. I took it to the LBS, who said that all it needs is some spoke prep -- but that was the labor equivalent of a wheel rebuild.

So what now? These are $100 wheels, and $40 labor for each at a shop is kind of absurd. And spoke prep seems only to come in $30 bottles. . .

Forgive me if this was addressed in the recent threads about spoke prep -- I was unable to find a solution to my problem. If there is one, please link to it.

Thanks.

Just aside, what kind of hub and rim did you buy?

Ive built lots of wheels, nothing fancy or low spoke count. I like 3x drive radial left rears. I just use grease (right side only). No problems, my wheels last a long time. Spoke prep hasnt been around forever-

I built my rims by using Super Lube and I haven't had any problems. One thing I learned though when building rims you must back off the spoke a small turn to unload the tension on the spokes from twisting the nipples. My Velocity aerohead is three years old and have only trued it about four times with only minor adjustments.
3x drive, radial non-drive on the rear wheels, and radial in the front. 8,000 miles and still rolling truely.

I abandoned spoke-prep after using it for a few wheels. Wasn't sure I was getting any advantage and one had spokes loosen anyway. I'm convinced now that appropriate and even tension is the winner and obviates the need for any locking substance. I just picked up a wheel off ebay from a guy who does it as a side line (local guy - nice conversation - looks like beautiful work) who has me convinced to just use grease and perfect tension.

I have several friends and even my LBS tell me that Linseed (sp?) oil works really well ... and very cheap too!

Just aside, what kind of hub and rim did you buy?

They are Mavic CXP-22s laced to Shimano something-or-other hubs. Total bottom of the line, but that's why they're spares.

Not that there's a pic here, but I believe that they are this, or close to it: http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?category=131&subcategory=1197&brand=&sku=12512&storetype=estore&estoreid=323&pagename=

I've never used spoke prep, ever. I've always bunched up the spokes and sprayed wd-40 or whatever I've got laying around before assembly. Never had a wheel problem...

One thing that does not happen in machine built wheels is proper strain relief. It is also the step that many inexperienced builders leave out or don't do enough times. The more the better. After the initial first tension, I slowly bring up the tension and put on my leather gloves and grab four spokes at a time and wail on em' making sure I get all the spokes in one revolution. I do this as many as 10 or more times as I tension the wheel. I know I'm done when the tension is correct and my wailing does not result in the wheel coming out of true. I know from experience what a properly tensioned wheel feels like, but I still check it with a tensionmeter. I don't use spoke prep on most builds. There are building schemes like radial non-drive side rear wheels the must have spoke prep cause the physics of such a build causes the spokes to want to twist.

Jude

I like it, since i bit and payed the 20 bucks, i am pleased. Especially on the non drive side when you start getting into higher tensions it makes it easier to turn and they seem to wind up less. I squeeze the "pairs" of spokes after every major adjustement, well by that i mean any time i do over 1/2 a turn. Just spin the wheel and give a quick turn. I used to do it less often, wait till it was almost as true as ide like and then do it all at once but i find its way to depressing because it feels like i did all that for for nothing

One thing that does not happen in machine built wheels is proper strain relief. It is also the step that many inexperienced builders leave out or don't do enough times. The more the better. After the initial first tension, I slowly bring up the tension and put on my leather gloves and grab four spokes at a time and wail on em' making sure I get all the spokes in one revolution. I do this as many as 10 or more times as I tension the wheel. I know I'm done when the tension is correct and my wailing does not result in the wheel coming out of true. I know from experience what a properly tensioned wheel feels like, but I still check it with a tensionmeter. I don't use spoke prep on most builds. There are building schemes like radial non-drive side rear wheels the must have spoke prep cause the physics of such a build causes the spokes to want to twist.

Jude

One of our wrenches in Germany used to lay the freshly built wheel on wooden blocks(under the rim only) and then take a stroll on 'em to tension them. He was about 250-275 lbs. so it was pretty scary to watch. Seemed to work really well, tho. Don't know what kind of prep(if any) he used. The image of him standing on a wheel is burned into my memory....

Holy Cow! If Nashbar won't fix them just put a drop of blue Locktite on the threads of each spoke, then do your best tension and truing job. Nothing wrong with blue locktite on spoke threads.

Al