Triathlon - how many bricks a week

i am very new to this. i live in the still very cold upper midwest, so i am clubbing it.
twice a week i have been bricking a 1000-1500m swim with a 3 or 4 mi run
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twice a week one hour spin class right to a 3 or 4 mi run
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sunday i will do a 1500m swim, 1.5 hr bike and a 4 mi run.


i've only got 2 hrs in the early morning for this.

i sometimes push it, sometimes slow it up depending on how i am feeling.

i am a cyclist by nature, having competed at beginner levels.

i am enjoying running for the first time in my 40 year life. i have LEARNED to run to where it doesn't beat me up. i am running on the track.

been running 12-14 miles per week, 1/2 of time in my fastest 4mi mode (9's) to 10:15's

am learning swim stroke.

so the question: should i do more of one sport each day or continue to mix 2 disciplines each day?

go to trainingpeaks.com i typically try to do 2 strong bricks a week, but then more and more often i'm finding swimming after a long run on the treadmill is a great way to cool down.

so i'd try and focus on individual events a little more until it comes to race season..

wait for MHR to post, he'll have much more sound advice ;)

I like your Sunday workouts!
Remember 1-thing it's not about how many miles you put in because no matter what , there will always be someone faster, and there will always be someone doing more volume. You have to do what is right for YOU and the goals that you have. It also needs to be fun, enjoyable a stress releif from life - and something you do for you.

To answer your question... should i do more of one sport each day or continue to mix 2 disciplines each day? That really depends on you goals right? If you want to get better physically fit - then sure, why not. If you want to improve in Triathlons, sure many do and your Sunday workout shows that you are on that track. Just how much time do you need to spend is directly related to the specific goal. To be honest, 12-14 miles/week is just not enough run miles, even for a Sprint or an Olympic distance. The track is fine for doing intervals - but I would be board out of my mind to run anything else of any distance on the track. You need to get out and run a loop that gives you change of scenery. I would suggest that you get in the car and drive a loop around where you live and plan some differnt ones that you can run on. I have a 3, 6, 9, 12, 15, 18, 20 and 22 mile loops planned out around where I live. Running on them is an adventure, fun and something different every day, adding to my enjoyment of running. If your goal is "just to finish" a Sprint or an Olympic distance event then maybe 12-14 miles/week is ok.

I guess you need to explain in detail what your goal is and be aware of the course cut-off times. I don't want to discourage you at all - but, I see it at a ton of races, people who get turned off or discouraged because they didn't know what they were in for. Everyone is on a diffenrt level as well, don't pay attention to anyone else except you and your personal goals and current limits. Just work at pushing your limits and challanging yourself to be a better athlete that you are right now. If doing doubles pushes you - then thats a good thing, do them.


I do bricks every day, although the M-F are what I call "mini-bricks", in that I do doubles and many times triples. But then again my "goal" is to be able to be competitive in anything from a 5k - to - an Ironman Triathlon pretty much at any given point in my race season. I do not believe in doing doubles in the same discipline. The Kenyan runners do it - in that they have two run sessions/day, but the focus is only running.
I Run a min of 9.0 mi,/day Cycling after for at least 1-hr, or about 20 miles, adding strength training 3 (sometimes 4 days/week) after that. The order of "when" to do "what" isn't as important as just building a strong aerobic base. After work it's daylight and I run first so I'm not running in the dark. If it's a day that I swim (a day I'm not strength training), I will swim after my run, when I get home I will cycle on my trainer. So my mini-bricks add-up to about 2-3 hours of aerobic level work.
My running is about 65/miles week average year round...that never really changes outside of my taper (prior to a marathon) and reverse taper weeks (following a marathon). But then again my goal and my race season has 2-3 marathons each year.

Saturdays are my long bricks...sometimes I look forward to them, and sometimes not. It's just a very long day alone (7 - 8 hrs on average), but when it's over I look forward to dinner with my wife and maybe a movie. Right now I'm in a bit of a recovery from a foot issue, but I ran 15 today so it's sore but I hope to get to to the start line of my next race in a few weeks. For now, my Saturdays will be only long runs of 18, 20 or 22. When I return my Satrurdays will focus on my long bricks with a 1/2 IM coming up.

Sunday is a fun day for me, nothing long, something differnt.

MHR: my goal? hell, its always to be in it and win it. i know that isn't going to happen, but that is my mindset. having toughened up my mental accumen by bike racing, i figure i've got the ride down pat. racing cat 5 gives me the confidence....

i realize that the swim is all about rhythm and survival....

i am not convinced that running is my sport, so 14 miles per week is a HUGE accomplishment. I am trying to stay healthy and enjoy it enough to where when spring comes (this morning, 33 degrees 1st day of spring) i will be outside doing what MHR suggested: map off 3,6,9 mi routes.

I have befriended many runners that i am trading biking technique and basic knowledge for running and tri tips.

I figure if i have done the swim and done the bike, there is no f'in way i am not going to finish the run (10K)

i have circled a late june, july and auguest tri event.

Running and swimming is changing my body...

in short, my next question is: i have never run more than 4miles on any run. do i push myself to finish the 6.4 miles just to see if i can or do i keep at 3 to 4 miles for now and add slowly once i can get outside...

love your attitude and mindset! keep it up!

it's recommended to build up mileage slowly: ~10% per month.
however i myself have done greater leaps as well. i did have sor feet and/or legs on a few occasions, but if that happened then i would always back off for a while until everything felt good.

so if you decide to just go for it, make sure you listen to what your body tells you.
but i am thinking, that if were to do your long run solo (no brick) then that shouldn't be too much to take.
i always say: as long as you listen to what your body tells you it's ok!
but i should add that some people tend to be a little bit obtuse as to listening to their bodys and that this also takes some experience and training....

hmmm.....i kinda get the feeling i didn't say anything of meaning in this post! :D

let's see what MHR has to say...

it's recommended to build up mileage slowly: ~10% per month.


Make that 10% per week.

RiPHRaPH: Welcome to the world of triathlons :). If you can do 4 miles you can get through 6, though I think it would be a good confidence boaster to go our and run 6 sometime before your race. Just take it nice and slow.

The 10% rule is only part of the issue....

The way I like to explain this is as follows;
Baking a good cake has a recipe, a master baker or a chef can do wonderful things with a specific number of ingredients necessary to bake the cake. Now you could take those same ingredients and on your own can make a cake too - but there is no way it will be as good or turn out the same as the one from the master baker - why? Because there the "experience" factor involved, and knowing what to do at what time. Now, if that master baker or chef were to stand right next to you and show you step by step what to do, your cake will be pretty close. Do it a few more times with direct supervision and you can now bake that specific cake pretty well now.

Running marathons or triathlons have a specific recipe with a number of necessary ingredients/components. Any good book like "Advanced Marathoning" will teach you this.
1. Base miles, (general aerobic runs)
2. Interval/speed work, (anerobic training)
3. Middle distance runs
4. Hill work
5. Long Slow Distance (lsd) runs
6. Recovery runs and rest days
7. Taper
8. Race prep
** I also add strength training to this list.
*** Nutrition, with out the proper fuel you are going nowhere.

These ingredients with respect to triathlons need to be applied to all 3-disciplines Swimming, Cycling and Running.

** Right now - all your runs are the same, in that you are only using ingredient #1 and that's not going to get you there. In short, you will never know what you are truly capable of until you learn to train in the correct way. You need to use all of the ingredients (within your own specific limits as applied to your specific goal), but thats only part of the story. On top of that - you need to know how to "combine the ingredients", the result will be getting the most out of your "time" and "effort".

Then there is technique, method and tools; an example of "tool" is using an HRM and "technique" learning how to download, store and interpret that data and then apply it ("method") to your training for a proper positive result as applied to a specific training session (understanding your specific training HR zones is also key here).
** This is where a coach, or specific testing comes into play Also, there are a ton of other techniques, methods and tools that could help.

Correct Implementation
As an example of putting all this madness together: Lets just say that in your training schedule you have a recovery run planned. Well IF you know your HR training zones, you can set your HRM to keep you in that "Recovery Zone" for that workout. Believe me, floging yourself (going hard more than you should to often) will do more harm than good and in the end not allowing your training to advance and improve.

Do you need all this to do a marathon, triathlon or have fun being a part of an event? NO
If you want to improve your performance, maxmize your time for a given effort, to relize your potential - THEN YES
Does all this really work? Let's just say I have trained this way for over 20-years and it has taken me places - wonderful places... http://www.marathonbios.com/milehighrunner.htm


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You cannot just tell people your committed – You cannot just say you’re dedicated – You cannot simply talk about your strength, your grit, your perseverance – You have to prove it...Lance Armstrong

MHR: Excellent advice once again. Are you planning on running Disney in 2006? After seeing a picture of the finishers medal I really want to do that one as my first marathon.

Disney in 2006?
Yes, wouldn't miss it as it is one of the best organized and executed marathon events going. Another plus is that it is at sea level, flat, fast and normally has race start temp near 40 degrees (last year it was the warmest on record however,with 60 degree temps at the 6:00 AM start, and near 80 when I finished). The event is managed by Jon Hughes (race director and owner of Track Shack - a local Florida running store) and Creigh Kelly race MC (of BKB, a race management company here in Denver) are simply the best in the business. It will be my 7th Walt World Disney Marathon in a row and lets see...maybe marathon #15 or 16 by then. Except next year the 1/2 marathon will be on Saturday and the Marathon on Sunday - so I will be doing the double.....well actually the "triple" I will run the 1/2 at 6:00 AM Saturday, later that morning the 5k fun run and then the Marathon on Sunday. I guess I would rather take the path less traveled.

ps. That Mouse is damn fast

MHR: i do run with a HRM. I know my zones cold on the bike, but the numbers are all foreign to me while running. Is anaerobic biking the same HR as anaerobic while running?
Running seems to spike up quicker.
do you always run in your zones?
my AT is 184 on the bike.

if i am doing 9:30's, and want to do LSD's..... doesn't that seem ridiculous? i'd be like walking...

Disney in 2006?
Yes, wouldn't miss it as it is one of the best organized and executed marathon events going.

Cool! I have printed out the entry form and will be mailing it in tonight. As far as the mouse goes, he can run as fast as he wants. I just want to finish it with a smile on my face :)

MHR: i do run with a HRM. I know my zones cold on the bike, but the numbers are all foreign to me while running. Is anaerobic biking the same HR as anaerobic while running?
Running seems to spike up quicker.
do you always run in your zones?
my AT is 184 on the bike.

if i am doing 9:30's, and want to do LSD's..... doesn't that seem ridiculous? i'd be like walking...

1. I am not an expert in the area of HRM testing - I have only been tested as an athlete. I know Zack has also been tested not long ago. While I know my zones I know that my numbers come much quicker while running than on the bike.

2. Anaerobic is anaerobic - I mean the engine is the same right? In a 10.5 mile TT that I do, I spike at 189 - 192 (my max) pretty quick as I am going all out and pretty much stay there for the entire race. That number is not going to go any higher - but I know thats all I have to do is survive for the 10.5 and I'm done. Running wise, I would only see those kind of numbers at the track while doing 400 meter intervals and nowhere else.

3. Training in zones is one thing - while racing in a zone all it's own thing - as it needs to be something that you can be comfortable in, yet at the same time allow you to finish the given distance. There is a very fine line to this...finishing strong and the "Crash and Burn". If you race enough you will end up crossing over that line resulting in the crash and burn...and that's ok. Even though I am pretty experienced running marathons, I still have the occational crash and burn because I will push myself to that edge. Much of it has to do with mother nature - your ability to tolerate the given race day conditions such heat, wind, and pace you are setting for the race. In the 2001 MCM marathon I maintained a 168 - 171 HR for the entire race, but the race start temps were 39 degrees and very gusty winds. Because I trained in much warmer temps and at altitude I could push this hard at this HR, because of a reduced sweat rate resulting from cooler temps. It was and still is my marathon PR.
In a race you need the right amount of "Preparation", "Luck" and "Energy" unfortunately it's something that can never be pre-ordered.

4. So what if your run pace is 9:30's, everyone is at a differnt level - you still need to have lsd work. The lsd has a specific purpose in that it strengthens your heart and your bodies ability to run this longer distance. The lsd's teach your "bodies energy systems" to be able to use "fat" as a fuel. When you get 1 or 2 behind you, as a result your daily runs will improve and you will be able to push a higher pace. It won't happen over night - but it will happen.

i understand the 'preparation, luck and energy' thing. i didn't have the best energy this AM, but know i need to do a better job of preparing OFF the bike during the workday. I need to hydrate more.

today i felt as though my legs were better off than my aerobic capacity. i have asthma, and the change in weather is killing me, even indoors.

Once i spike in the 170's, how do you 'recover' enough to get back to the 150's, where i feel more comfortable >>> or is there no going back...

i do admit to getting frustrated now. i am not getting the quick gains of the first 3 weeks. and at 14 miles a week for 3 weeks i am falling into a pattern of having a good run every other run.

i remember how defeating it was when i began biking in earnest. i'd get passed up and it felt self defeating. now i am running, but on the track in winter/spring there are only the hardcores, so it seems as if i am running in jello when i get left behind.

i just need to stay and fight through this.

1. I am not an expert in the area of HRM testing - I have only been tested as an athlete. I know Zack has also been tested not long ago. While I know my zones I know that my numbers come much quicker while running than on the bike.

I haven't been tested running yet. It is my understanding that our AT number for biking is most likely different (lower) than our AT number will be for running. I've read conflicting information regarding the ability to predict AT for one sport if you know what it is for the other. The generally accepted number I have seen tossed out most often is 5 - 10 beats difference. For example my AT for biking is 151 BPM which should put my AT for running between 156 and 161 BPM. I'm planning on having my AT tested while running as soon as I find out what's going on with my left foot.