I live in the Baltimore-Washington D.C. area. What would be the best all around folder (under $1,000) to use for commutes on buses and or trains, for recreation on local trails (mostly paved, some with gravel), or just to throw in the trunk to take along on trips.? Thanks

I am far from being the expert here, but I think the new 2005 line of Dahons will give you some good options. Since suspension dosn't hurt, check the P8s.

I personally gave up portability for confort and solidness, so I ended up with a Halfway that made me a big fan of Giant. But the Halfway is far from being the most practical folder once it's folded.

Just my US$ 0.02.

Rafael

Brompton !

Brompton !

I agree, but it sure seems to me that Brompton still has to be discovered in the US.

I am not sure a brompton is the thing for trails but I must admit I havent tried.

I would go for one of the Dahon 20 inch folders with wide tyres (Big Apples maybe but I dont think fenders would fit with these).

Another tire alternative is Haro multisurface tires 20 x 1.85 inflatable to 85 psi. I use them on my 20 inch yeah folder. Yeah is a Dahon subsidiary.

Bromptons, it seems to me, are vintage delight for the old school folding crowd. They fold in an intricate and amazing way, producing a remarkably small package, true, but they ride like a kluge. Your knees are too close and the bars are to deep and there's just too much negative about their ride to balance with the positive wonder of their foldabilty. If a balance is to be struck, again it seems to me, it should be on the side of function as a bicycle.

That said, your choices are the various Dahon models, the two Trek folders, the Birdy red (or an older Burley green and the Giant Halfway. If I were choosing at $1000 and under, I'd get the Dahon Helios SL 2005 - 16.8 pounds, folds great, really easy to carry and rides like a true racer.

Akira - it seems we need to know abit more about YOUR needs - looks like we are all projecting our own choices onto you - and this soon turns into the old "my choice is better than yours" BLX.

The folding bike world has a wide choice of options, and depending on how you rank the various factors, not all mutually compatible: weight, stiffnes, speed of folding, wheel size, folded size, comfort of ride, cost, handling, local availability, local acceptability, image, other bikes already owned, etc.

simple simon ,,,, no need to start a flame war. your answer was rather short and lacked any information. To start picking other opinions apart , which offers real insight, versus your post, is not the right way to go... And than start flaming the person is really not the correct way. same old same old. the flamer picks on one post and than in the same second says, I have the right to critize anybody, but all others please dont start a war...


not good.

back tot he original post... here in the USA you probably best with a Dahon... A helios SL or SpeedPro is a lightr good riding alternative to a big bike ..

brakemeister

Lighten up Brakemeister !

No flame throwers of mass destruction found here :)

Bromptons, it seems to me, are vintage delight for the old school folding crowd. They fold in an intricate and amazing way, producing a remarkably small package, true, but they ride like a kluge. Your knees are too close and the bars are to deep and there's just too much negative about their ride to balance with the positive wonder of their foldabilty. If a balance is to be struck, again it seems to me, it should be on the side of function as a bicycle.

Have you actually ridden a Brompton or owned one?

(Here's to the "old school folding crowd" at age 33.)

I live in the Baltimore-Washington D.C. area. What would be the best all around folder (under $1,000) to use for commutes on buses and or trains, for recreation on local trails (mostly paved, some with gravel), or just to throw in the trunk to take along on trips.? Thanks

The best all around folder for all the tasks you want to do does not exist.

1. Tains --- Any folding bike would do

2. Bus ------ If you intend to board many buses with a folding bike, it's better to get one with a 16 inch wheel. The Brompton and Dahon Presto are best for this task since a 20 inch folder makes a considerable larger package expecially when covered with a bag! You may have difficulity bringing a 20' inch folder inside the cabin of the bus.

3. Paved trails ---- Any folder would do

4. Gravel trails ---- This is going to be hard because not many folding bikes are designed for this use. Since we don't know the condition of the gravel, I would say stay away from this because only true MTB or Cross bike with 26' inch wheels are larger are made for gravel. A high pressure 16 or 20 inch wheel would make riding on gravel miserable. Dahon makes a 26 inch wheel MTB for this task but it would be too big to bring inside the bus!

5. Long Trips ---- Any 16 or 20 inch folder will do but you would be better off with the larger wheel.

So are you Baltimore or DC? Most busses in the DC area have bike racks on the front. DASH bus in Alexandria does not have such racks, but Metrobus does. I don't know about Baltimore. If your bus system has bike racks, you're bus situation is clear--just use the racks.

I don't know about Baltimore trains, either, although I do ride the light rail and subway when I go to Baltimore. I have never seen a bike, folding or non, on the light rail or on the subway in Baltimore. Folding bikes are allowed on DC Metro trains anytime, although officially they have to be in a bag (officially).

I bet any 20-inch folder would do fine. I have a 26-inch folder, but it's a bit cumbersome and I may look to a 20-inch folder for next winter's commute when I combine cycling and bus/train because of the darkness.

There are good folding bikes for $1,000.

Have you actually ridden a Brompton or owned one?

(Here's to the "old school folding crowd" at age 33.) I am sorry ,i do not know what a kluge is ? I gather it is something horrid . Please if you could define it . I would like to be able to toss it out in casual conversation. Others as well as otters, may be mystified as to it's exact meaning. :rolleyes:

Bromptons, it seems to me, are vintage delight for the old school folding crowd. They fold in an intricate and amazing way, producing a remarkably small package, true, but they ride like a kluge. Your knees are too close and the bars are to deep and there's just too much negative about their ride to balance with the positive wonder of their foldabilty. If a balance is to be struck, again it seems to me, it should be on the side of function as a bicycle.

That said, your choices are the various Dahon models, the two Trek folders, the Birdy red (or an older Burley green and the Giant Halfway. If I were choosing at $1000 and under, I'd get the Dahon Helios SL 2005 - 16.8 pounds, folds great, really easy to carry and rides like a true racer.

I'm 70 inches tall and 195lbs and I find riding a Brompton delighful, so from a personal standpoint I cannot agree with your view fo the Brompton. Nonetheless, I appreicate your expressed opinion and your hearty endorsement of the the Dahon Helios SL which I have not yet personally tested. But I think I will.

I did ride a Brompton and then a Giatex, and then a Dahon, and then a Birdy, before I chose the bike I bought (which I didn't first ride). 2004 Jetstream XP....

I probably misspelled 'kluge' (maybe Kludge?). This refers to a Rube Goldberg-esque, mish mosh of parts that are required to create a desired, overiding all other functionality, function. In the case of the Brompton, a stiffer handlebar and a better seat position are sacrificed for an incredible folding function. Most, if not all folding bikes share the affliction. In the case of the Dahon I own, pedal cornering clearance is sacrificed for a comfortable bottom bracket height and the wheelbase is a little longer than necessary, to better accomodate a clean mating when folded.

The Brompton has a devoted following and I really didn't mean to offend. It is though, not readily upgradable into a superlight version of itself and so, is stuck being exactly what it is. Hence the old skool tag. Actually, to the guy whom questioned its 'old skool' status: Exactly what about a Brompton is it that could be considered modern?

Hasn't this bike existed almost unchanged for, like, 40 years?<s>

http://www.thaicycling.com/webboard/images/11630.jpg

Maybe this 18 speed Giant MR 20 Lite is the folder for you if you want to travel gravel trails. They have full suspensioned and off road tires.

See this page for details: http://translate.google.com/translate?sourceid=navclient-menuext&hl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Egiant%2Eco%2Ejp%2F2005%2Fpop%5Fpics%5Fspec%5F05%2Fpop%5Fcontents%2Fmr%5F20%5Fli teB%2Ehtml

Light click and click "translate to english" for english version.

I probably misspelled 'kluge' (maybe Kludge?). This refers to a Rube Goldberg-esque, mish mosh of parts that are required to create a desired, overiding all other functionality, function. In the case of the Brompton, a stiffer handlebar and a better seat position are sacrificed for an incredible folding function. Most, if not all folding bikes share the affliction. In the case of the Dahon I own, pedal cornering clearance is sacrificed for a comfortable bottom bracket height and the wheelbase is a little longer than necessary, to better accomodate a clean mating when folded.

The Brompton has a devoted following and I really didn't mean to offend. It is though, not readily upgradable into a superlight version of itself and so, is stuck being exactly what it is. Hence the old skool tag. Actually, to the guy whom questioned its 'old skool' status: Exactly what about a Brompton is it that could be considered modern?

Hasn't this bike existed almost unchanged for, like, 40 years?<s>

In the Deep South of the USA coon hunters often remark, "it's hard to get all your coons up one tree." That concept certainly holds for folders. I agree, it would sure be nice if Brompton had a superlite version equivalent in weight to Dahon's Presto Lite.

How about the Trek folders?
The Trek website doesn't elaborate on how quickly they fold or what they weigh.

Actually, to the guy whom questioned its 'old skool' status: Exactly what about a Brompton is it that could be considered modern?

The color choices.

'Ode skoo' status is fine with me. I just thought it was a funny remark.

But as far as Brompton's being a pain to upgrade or to replace parts - you got that right.

I probably misspelled 'kluge' (maybe Kludge?). This refers to a Rube Goldberg-esque, mish mosh of parts that are required to create a desired, overiding all other functionality, function. In the case of the Brompton, a stiffer handlebar and a better seat position are sacrificed for an incredible folding function. Most, if not all folding bikes share the affliction. In the case of the Dahon I own, pedal cornering clearance is sacrificed for a comfortable bottom bracket height and the wheelbase is a little longer than necessary, to better accomodate a clean mating when folded.

The Brompton has a devoted following and I really didn't mean to offend. It is though, not readily upgradable into a superlight version of itself and so, is stuck being exactly what it is. Hence the old skool tag. Actually, to the guy whom questioned its 'old skool' status: Exactly what about a Brompton is it that could be considered modern?

Hasn't this bike existed almost unchanged for, like, 40 years?<s> I find my dahon classic 3 a bit too stretched for my taste.I have probably modified a bike into kluge status as i am always modifying one bicycle or the other .Bromptons have undergone modifications and improvements over the years although not the radical transformations Dahons have undergone.Steve Parry makes some very neat custom Bromptons.These are usually detailed in A to B magazine.

The Treks are made by Dahon and fold pretty much the same as a Dahon. The F600, the one with the Bontrager Select wheelset (they look like Rolf wheels; to few spokes it would seem), is the better choice and looks to be a sort of marriage between a Dahon Helios SL and a Giant Halfway. Since it's full forked and stayed, I'd call it a Giant Wholeway, or maybe just a Giant Way.

Anyway, The Trek 600 is a fairly well specified bike that's not very heavy(22lbs I believe) and should ride pretty fast and pretty well. There's a few of them around very inexpensively at bikeshop closeouts around here. I saw one for $435 just the other day on Long Island. I haven't ridden one though, so all comments are from afar.


DG1

The Treks are made by Dahon and fold pretty much the same as a Dahon. The F600, the one with the Bontrager Select wheelset (they look like Rolf wheels; to few spokes it would seem), is the better choice and looks to be a sort of marriage between a Dahon Helios SL and a Giant Halfway. Since it's full forked and stayed, I'd call it a Giant Wholeway, or maybe just a Giant Way.

Anyway, The Trek 600 is a fairly well specified bike that's not very heavy(22lbs I believe) and should ride pretty fast and pretty well. There's a few of them around very inexpensively at bikeshop closeouts around here. I saw one for $435 just the other day on Long Island. I haven't ridden one though, so all comments are from afar.


DG1

Thanks for the background dg1.
I'm fairly new to the latest folding bike developments, but having wanted one for many years, I would occasionally see what's out there. It looks like the Dahons have really evolved. I remember the earlier models of decades ago being rather heavy. Now I learn that Trek is in the game too. The Airnimals looks interesting as well, but "interesting" always brings a price.

Thanks for the background dg1.
I'm fairly new to the latest folding bike developments, but having wanted one for many years, I would occasionally see what's out there. It looks like the Dahons have really evolved. I remember the earlier models of decades ago being rather heavy. Now I learn that Trek is in the game too. The Airnimals looks interesting as well, but "interesting" always brings a price.

A customer in the store Saturday told me that in his recent research, he found 70 different makers of folding bicycles from around the world, many were from Asia. At Interbike I reviewed 1/2 dozen or so new folders from Asia. Most of those reps were looking for a US distributor. To get any particular bike I would have to buy a ship container full which I think is about 144 bikes at once.

I would have to agree in that assessment of the Dahons and I'd say it was the Birdy that did it. Since around 1995, when the Birdy started to make inroads in the US market, it would seem that Dahon saw the need to become competitive with it. These days, Dahon is really hitting stride and now they're turning out some really interesting options that surely eclipse the Birdy of old.

Birdy is also upping the ante on their bikes albeit without a US distribution deal (at least ASFAICT); the Birdy 9.7 is a very cool toy, as is their new titanium ltd. For the most part, all of the other makers of folders (with the exception of the larger Airnimal)are riding out the niches they've carved and waiting for the day the folding market 'catches on'. Bike Friday is doing cool things too, but for the most part, these aren't really folders as I define them and they're priced like a Sachs or a Kellogg would be (at least when they get equipt the way I like them)

It really would be fun to see what the custom builders could do with a folding concept bike and now that I've spent thousands on three folding bikes (a Dahon Jetstream XP, A Birdy green and a Soma ti journey), I suppose I'll probably be the guinea pig. I am really enjoying my Jetstream XP and though it's great as it is, I really wish it were more beautifully made and a little more thoughtfully measured. The Birdy is great fun, but not for me. The Soma isn't built yet, as I wait for a custom fork and decide what I want to build it as: a superlight racer or a Campy C record equipped throwback (I'm leaning towards the C record, mostly because I'm loving the idea of Delta brakes on a folder! A titanium folder natch...)

This longing for a more perfectly made bike was the exact same thing that led me to buy my Kellogg/Spectrum back in the day and I sorely regret having sold that, my only bike that really was a work of art.

I want that feeling back and it's going to cost me a years work to get it I'm afraid.

DG1

Looking around at folding bikes recently and it struck me that most folders have a lot of welds and complex bits made out of tubing compared to a trad diamond frame.

It is the one type of bike that could really be improved by construction in carbon fibre. Imagine if each part of the folding frame could be made in any shape, without having to use tubes or even be symetrical. Once you have the moulds, then one shape of carbon is as easy to make as another. You could radically lighten a compact folder such as the bromton.

FYI,

I test-rode a Trek 600 and it appears to weigh a lot more than 22 pounds. Its probably at least about 26 pounds