Recreational & Family - It is called a leash law jackass...use it.

Ok so last evening I went out on a ride with my wife and son. Fantastic evening here in central PA with temps in the 50s. So I am hauling my 3yr old on our trailerbike and my wife is following and we had done a pretty good ride. At several times in the ride we passed people with dogs and there was no issue...my son loves dogs. Well late in the ride and climbing a long hill on the bike path we come upon a woman with 2 dogs. Neither of these dogs was on a leash and while they both had muzzles they weren't in place. We pass the woman and one of the dogs goes up the path a couple hundred yards, the other dog sniffs my son as we go by but is plesant. Well as we get up the hill a bit farther the other dog is there (this is probably 300 yds up the hill around a corner and WELL out of site and control of the owner) and come up to the trailer. I assumed it would be nice like the first (it was well trained) but this dog started barking at my son who is now freaking out. I was at a loss for what to do so I grabbed my water bottle and looked from side to side to find a target. Just then my wife is catching up and wistles (she can do so VERY loud) which turns the dog's attention, then the dog bolts down the hill. So it takes a few min to calm my son and this woman never came up the hill. I yelled down that there was a leash law and to get the dogs on one [I am intolerant to poor dog (and owner) manners as I used to train dogs for obedance competitions], but never saw the woman.

So what would you do in this case? I couldn't throw the bike down and go after the dog because my bike and my son's are attached. It took me a min to find what side the dog was on and take aim with the water but if this dog was going to bite it would have had plenty of time. Son did the right thing by grabing the handle bars like he was hugging them and holding on tight. I think in the future I am going to harp on owners to leash their dogs but what other tactics should we think about?

Thanks

I used to just ride past this type of confrontation until I had a dog lunge at me and almost take me off my bike. When I see a dog issue shaping up ahead of me now I slow down or stop and take it up with the owner. So given your description, I would have stopped by the woman and politely asked her to get her dog under control so that I could safely pass. Usually that does the trick. Only once have I had anyone take issue with me over my request. In that case I walked along with them and talked their frikken ear off about how dangerous loose dogs can be to themselves and others...especially around children, around other dogs, around folks who aren't going to be expecting to see a dog running around off leash, etc. After about a minute of that they got tired of the discussion and got their dog under control.

Ok if I was able to jump off the bike I would have known what to do. Next time I will be sure to drop my bike and my son on the pavement so I can properly deal with the dog. We passed the dog and it came up on us from behind and was changing sides, jumping and barking at my son.

Since you obviously don't know squat about obedance training...a dog is leashed at all times (obviously not when at home but when out or in training) until it is pretty well trained and the master is SURE the animal will obey his or her commands. At the point when a properly trained dog would be off a leash this situation would NEVER have happened, I know it never would have happened with my dogs.

Owners that allow untrained animals loose in a situation like this (near a park and on a bike path for a walk) are reckless and I have no time or patience for them, they are an accident waiting to happen. This woman was a jackass and if I see her again I will let her know how I feel about her and her animals. Even though her animal was out of control she didn't even have the time or guts to come and get it under control and I am SURE she was able to hear the crying and yelling at the animal. To be honest if this happens again I am filing charges as it could have been much worse.

So what would you do in this case? It took me a min to find what side the dog was on and take aim with the water but if this dog was going to bite it would have had plenty of time. Thanks

Silca frame pump with Campagnolo metal head... When riding around lots of dogs, you get to be pretty quick with 'em. Thump the dog right on his head with it (though you want thump the dog's owner).

I keep a can of pepper spray in my blowout bag. One squirt and the dog will leave you alone for the rest of its life.

I've had dogs come up to me this way. I can tell the difference between an aggressive dog or a curious one or one just wanting to invite play. Just because a dog is barking does not mean it is a prelude to an attack.

The best defense is to stop, stay still, and talk to the animal in a quiet, high voice, saying something like "good boy/girl, nice doggie, etc.". No sudden moves, no waving of hands. Just a quiet, friendly tone of voice. In these cases the dog has generally been calm, come up and sniffed or responded positively, and then moved on.

Usually they are trying to play or to protect their territory or their master/mistress. Nothing more. Only in the case of a truly aggressive dog (snarling, growling, ears back, tail down) would I ever consider striking or spraying a dog. And then only if attacked. Of course, I am a dog lover, to do so other than in those circumstances is "cruelty" to me.

I think you're making too big a deal of all of this. You should know that if you present as angry, agitated, nervous, or aggressive yourself that the dog will pick this up and it may escalate any aggressive tendencies it might harbor. If, in fact, it IS being aggressive, not playful or protective.

BTW, there are not "leash laws" everywhere. And your anxious/agitated behavior may have scared your kid more than the dog did. Kids, like dogs, pick up on fear. And also, as a "trainer" you should know that not all dogs will obey just anyone's command. These dogs might have been trained, but not to obey you. Never assume, is what I am suggesting. For a "trainer" you really don't seem to have much of an understanding of dog behavior or dog psychology. :(

I'm a dog lover too. That's why I keep my dogs either on my own property, or on a leash. A woman was walking her baby in a carriage through my neighborhood. A dog jumped her without warning and put her in intensive care. I wasn't there, but I'm pretty sure she wasn't showing any aggression towards the dog. If a dog runs up to me barking and I feel threatened, I'm not going to wait for it to take a few hunks out of my leg before I do something. Some dogs do attack with very little warning, so you can't assume that all of them are going to behave the same way.

Grasschopper, I support you 100%. Dogs do not belong along the road without a leash for any reason. I am a dog lover and a veterinarian. I see dogs get killed by cars, other dogs, and other dangers as a result of running loose. It is our duty to control them for their own protection and ours. I am so tired of being limited where I can leash walk my dog because other people will let their dogs charge up and challenge him. No dog can be trusted all the time in every situation. One of my patients who had never bitten anyone before had to be put to sleep after attacking a lady walking past its yard. She had to go to intensive care and have her scalp reattached. I don't think leashes are too much trouble!

Grasschopper and others: don't get me wrong...I never said dogs SHOULD be running loose, leash law or not. I certainly would not let mine run loose for safety reasons, etc.

My point was to encourage other ways to deal with dogs in a humane manner when they do approach us when out on a bike. And yes, I know some dogs could attack without any warning, though it is not the usual pattern. We must always err on the side of caution.

I certainly was not justifying the owner in your situation...I think she was negligent in her "dog mom" duties too. However, not all areas have an actual law against letting them run loose. I wish they would.

Did you know you can punt a Jack Russell Terrier like a football? It's true, they don't fly very far but they don't run your bike anymore.I saw him lying in the grass so zI unclipped and when he went after me.........3 points! :roflmao:

Did you know you can punt a Jack Russell Terrier like a football? It's true, they don't fly very far but they don't run your bike anymore.I saw him lying in the grass so zI unclipped and when he went after me.........3 points! :roflmao:

No, but I hear tell redneck mountain bikers are worth 10 points. (20 pts already dead)....

No, but I hear tell redneck mountain bikers are worth 10 points. (20 pts already dead)....
No, redneck mtnbikers are worth 30 points. We're worth more alive and you get bonus points if you can figure out what were saying.

No, redneck mtnbikers are worth 30 points. We're worth more alive and you get bonus points if you can figure out what were saying.

Well, hell, son! Let's have at it! I'm a hillbilly from Kintucky ma-self!

ChiliDog - a) In our area we DO have a leash law, these dogs BY LAW were to be leashed. b) having been around dogs my entire life I am not affraid of dogs and know how to act around them, when a dog comes running out of the bushes jumping and barking at my son it isn't because I (or he) was acting in some manner to provoke the animal. Had I been able to place myself between the dog and my son I am sure everything would have been fine but I had no chance to defuse the situation.

Not all of us are well-schooled in dogs and their behavior-- nor should we be.

I just don't understand the mentality of people who unleash their dogs in public areas and then stand quietly in the distance when the dog starts chasing someone. In those situations, I am just glad to clear out of the area, but what I really want to do is give the owner a piece of my mind. Unfortunately, I'm afraid the dog will take a piece of my ass if I try so I never try to turn around and confront the owner.

Where i ride the old ladies that walk there dog have a game. When you ride by they have a long leash that they let out so the dog gets right at your feet and then the leash runs out. They get a big kick out of it,a big smile on there face.

Don't throw the water bottle at the dog, squirt 'em with water!

If you have to hit a dog remember their noses are really sensitive, hard target to hit but worth it it just really smarts for a dog

I'd consider the best situation to be able to squirt 'em with regular water from the water bottle, and if the situation looks tough have some kind of backup container that has Parson's Ammonia in it, it's an old newpaperboy's trick, that stuff puts a dog out of the mood to chase/bite faster than anything, much more effective and reliable than pepper spray.

A barking dog, GASP! Hmmm, I would have stuck it with my knife then give the owners a beat down. :rolleyes: Well, that or explain to the owners about the leash law and the dangerous situation her dog could have created. ;)

Geez, Grasschopper,

I can't believe how many people are taking the time to write in to rag you for your post.

Loose, misbehaving dogs in any public space are not acceptable. When a dog runs you, it's very little consolation to have the owner shouting, "It's okay, he's friendly!"

I love dogs, but I have a very low tolerance for irresponsible owners. It is yet another sad example of the complete abdication of responsibility that seems to be sweeping society. Mutter, grumble.

Ah, my morning rant. That felt good.

Once again this morning on bike route 85 in Savannah I was chased by 4 dogs not on leashes. This was within the city limits and quite scary actually. I wasn't able to outpace them and one was eyeing my right hand up pretty good ( I ride a fairly low slung recumbent. ) There is a leash law in this county and I will start calling the dog pound or whoever (going to figure that out today) and I'm going to mount some mace type stuff under my seat.

Allow me to add to the mix. I was out riding my 20 mile after work loop. On the way back one of those man eater dogs (pit bull, thing) came after me. I was pretty suprised that he kept up @ 25 mph for about 10 yards. IF my wife had been with me he would have cought her. I am buying some spray for our next encounter.

jb

Some people are just stupid!!! We were out tonight (second ride on the piccolo and we're loving it) and had stopped at a little playground for a few minutes. All of a sudden a largish yellow lab (~80lbs) came right up to us, no leash, owner w/ 2 other dogs (these were on leashes) about 50 yards away. I was pushing my daughter on the swing and the dog walked right into her and got kicked pretty hard. My daughter fell off the swing but I managed to catch her before she hit the ground.

At that point, I expected the owner to get the dog out of there... Instead, the idiot was encouraging the dog to go up the steps for the slide. She kept laughing and saying how well behaved the dog was. I agree, the dog was well behaved, BUT you never know how a dog will react to something until it happens. I was pretty worried when the dog got kicked walking into the swing because even the calmest dog can flip out if it feels threatened.

We have a 100lb Golden Retriever who is extremely well trained but we would never take him somewhere that there might be kids and have him off leash.

Of course, my daughter was oblivious to the whole situation because she's so used to her big friendly puppy that she has no concept that some dogs aren't so nice.

We were lucky, I don't know what I would have done if the dog had seemed threatening.

LOL...my ride buddy was having a conversation with a nimrod dog owner over the weekend as I came riding up. Nimrod defines as a 'those lease laws don't apply to me though' type.

Buddy: "So you're one of those dog owners who honestly believe that lease laws don't apply to them?"

Nimrod: "And you're probably one of those bikers who carry pepper spray right?"

Buddy: "Now that you mention it, yeah, I have been known to do that from time to time."

Nimrod: "So what makes you think it's okay for you to spray an innocent dog for something that their owner is doing wrong."

Buddy: "Well that's just it."

:: pause ::

Nimrod: "Well what's just it?"

Buddy: "I don't spray the dog. I just spray the owner."

The nimrod guy just stood there trying to figure out whether or not my buddy was kidding. The look on his face was priceless as we rode off.

LOL...my ride buddy was having a conversation with a nimrod dog owner over the weekend as I came riding up. Nimrod defines as a 'those lease laws don't apply to me though' type.

Buddy: "So you're one of those dog owners who honestly believe that lease laws don't apply to them?"

Nimrod: "And you're probably one of those bikers who carry pepper spray right?"

Buddy: "Now that you mention it, yeah, I have been known to do that from time to time."

Nimrod: "So what makes you think it's okay for you to spray an innocent dog for something that their owner is doing wrong."

Buddy: "Well that's just it."

:: pause ::

Nimrod: "Well what's just it?"

Buddy: "I don't spray the dog. I just spray the owner."

The nimrod guy just stood there trying to figure out whether or not my buddy was kidding. The look on his face was priceless as we rode off.

Priceless. :D

I used to try to outrun dogs that chased me, or wave a frame pump at them, until I found that a well-aimed squirt from the plain old water bottle slows them up every time. Grasschopper, I sympathize with your situation. It sounds like your son was on a trail-a-bike, since you mentioned handlebars. You can't just drop the lead bike or he'll go down hard, and with a dog appearing to threaten him, he's probably better off staying upright. It sounds like you handled it as best you could.

A barking dog, GASP! Hmmm, I would have stuck it with my knife then give the owners a beat down. :rolleyes: Well, that or explain to the owners about the leash law and the dangerous situation her dog could have created. ;)

Be very careful when you take action against a dog, especially when in plain sight of their owner. I have no problem putting a swift kick under the chin of a barking dog approaching me or hammering him with a frame pump even if his tail is waving 90 bpm. But what I have learned after spending time on a Lab forum, is that a lot of dog owners put dogs above people, period.

I am pretty sure there are a few dog owner's who would gladly put a knife in the back of a bicyclist who kicked their dog....sad but true.

Personally, I can't stand dogs. I live on a corner house and my yard is full of $hit from inconsiderate people walking their little babies. I have run over a dog on my bicycle and have been bitten twice. Once I had trouble unclipping as the fool dog held on to my shoe while he went in circles until I unclipped and kicked him away. Everyone who thinks dogs can be outrun or persuaded/sung to/sweet talked just haven't run into the nasty one yet. One century ride I rode in northern rural Georgia last year had to have over 40 dogs on it. I would sweet talk one, see a couple hanging together, startle one sunning in the tall grass by the side of the road, turn a corner and have a growling dog in front and another pack of 3 dogs coming from another direction. I got off my bike and held it between me and the dogs. I tried singing/whistling so I would not startle them and let them know I was non-threating. I even saw two dead dogs as road kill. I would rather cycle on an interstate than in an area where all the home owners let their dogs roam. And I have been on week-long organized bike rides, where I'll pass a threatening dog and will later hear stories where someone on the ride was bitten, or the police had to be called.

Hi, Newbie here But thought I would chime in.
I want to get back into riding I haven't done it in years and think it would be good for me to get in shape. where I live is really beautiful but I too am worried about dogs not on a leash.
so I guess I will need some spray.

How I feel about dog owners (I am one). 2 years ago I had a yellow Female lab never on a leash, except for when I was going somewhere with her that required my total control of her. and that is the key I feel if you own a dog or any animal you need total control of that animal. But at the same time when on my own property I feel a dog should be able to have freedom.
Nickie was the best and very protective. If you came up my driveway she would be on a dead run for you. however one whistle and she would stop flat in her tracks and return to the house. Since then I have lost Nickie and recently got another Male yellow lab. just a big baby and very goofy not really a protector yet. but this one is totally different and will not have the freedom that Nick had because he will leave my property and that is where he gets put on a run... Ultimately as a dog owner my dog is my responsibility and if you are walking or riding by my house you should not have to worry about being greeted or attack by a dog. and you will not with mine....

sorry to say that there are many dog owners who are clueless about what it means to have a dog....

I live in the small town of Manns Harbor, NC, and the dog situation here took some getting used to. It seems everyone here has a dog, and I have yet to see a leash. The dogs all roam the small town, everyone knows whose dog is whose, and watches out for them. Car drivers must be careful, as dogs and children will sit in the middle of the road. When I was chased by a large mean-looking lab a couple of times, I bought pepper spray to defend myself. Sure enough, next time out, here comes the dog, trying to chase me down. Prepared this time, I came to a fast stop, jumped off my bike with spray in hand ready to go. When the dog saw me stop get off, it tucked its tail between its legs and reaced back to its driveway, where it proceeded to bark from behind some bushes. Turned out to be a big wimp. I have found with all these dogs that the best plan is to stop, get off and talk to the dog. They will either go away, or come up for a friendly greeting.

Dogs are much quicker than we are. They can easily dodge kicks, pumps, and anything thrown at them. Racing down the road from the dog at 20mph, kicking, spraying and yelling all while looking back at the dog puts you at much greater risk of injury from a crash than you face from dog bites. If you must defend yourself, stop first. Just remember that different segments of society look differently on dog ownership. While urban folks show love for thier dog by leashing them when outside, many rural people would never consider tying up thier dog or putting them in a pen for the same reason; they feel it would be cruel to the dog.

I used to train dogs for obedance competitions

Hey Grasschopper,

Unruely dogs are a nuisance and their owners suck. It's a hard call to say what is the best course of action in a situation like the one you described. Each situation is different. You have to know how to read a dog to know the best reaction to take. It sounds like your wife has a mean whistle though and that helped a lot.

Bottom line... It wasn't your fault it was the sucky dog owner's fault.

Dogs respond to fight and flight. If you have no alternative but to face an unruely dog you'll get a better response from any dog if you get aggressive physically and verbally. I think your wife scared the curr with the whistle.

As a side note:
As far as your being a dog trainer? I'm skeptical about that. Those dog obediance competitions you attended are really called obediance trials. You would know that if you had actually participated. If you had trained dogs then you'd have been better equipped to deal with a situation like the one you've described.

I'm a newbie here but also a dog owner...

The biggest problem I've encountered is irresponsible dog owners. Many dog owners do not take the time to train their dogs to behave properly add to that the fact that many think that leash laws are optional. I've taken to carrying a stick when going for walk and SO was recently talking to me about pepper spray when going for bike rides...

I've taken to carrying a stick when going for walk ...SO was recently talking to me about pepper spray when going for bike rides...


Let's see:

A stick for walking.
Pepper spray for cycling.
[fill in the blank]for driving.

I once knew a guy who slept with a knife.

I have been using pepper spray on the local MUT for those dogs off the leash and running free while their owners watch. Just one wiff of the pepper spray seems to discourage them from the chase. However, after having the same dogs chase me more than once, I finally decided some education was necessary. I chose two young men about 13 or 14 who I thought would be tough customers. They always come to the trail with their skateboards and a large large dog that likes to chase bikes and to which they pay no attention. This time I stopped and explained to them that their was a leash law that made them responsible if their dog caused an accident. I explained that some of the bikes on the trail cost as much as $5,000. Combining the cost of bike repair, an ambulance ride and the emergency room bill and maybe hospital care, their parents would be liable for tens of thousands of dollars. That meant no new skateboards or expensive gear for them and maybe no allowance for a long time while their parents paid the bill. First they wanted to know why someone would pay $5,000 for a bike. I aksed them "wouldn't they like to dirve a hummer?. Why would they spend $50,000 for a car to drive a car to school and the local mall." One of the kids, understoood immediately. It was great seeing the light bulb go on. Anyway, the kids decided it would be best to leave the dog at home or put him on a leash. One less dog on the MUT = my new best practices scenario for dog owners.

Let's see:

A stick for walking.
Pepper spray for cycling.
[fill in the blank]for driving.

I once knew a guy who slept with a knife.

Actually, I do have a gun... :p

Let's talk the next time you or your dog gets attacked for no reason except that you happen to pass it on the trail.

Well lets add to this little tail. Hey Telenick - ok fine it is actually called a trial...whatever...I trained our dogs and did the trials on several occasions.

Now to add to the tail. I guess the lady in question lives fairly near (this trail incident happened a couple miles from my house) me because she has started to walk her dogs in the park behind our house...again unleashed. Lowe and behold what happens? Dog takes off from it's owner...again...and comes into our yard barking at my son (3.5 yrs)who is in his sand box and did nothing to provoke the animal. My son runs for the deck and my wife sees this happening yells at the dog who then runs out of our yard back to it's owner who is some 300 yds up the hill in a field not doing a damn thing about her dog. My wife is screaming at her from our yard and she doesn't do a thing. Ever since then (about 3 weeks now) she walks the dogs with her husband. Next time this animal is in my yard and I can restrain it I WILL be holding it until the police arrive. :mad:

Hey Telenick - ok fine it is actually called a trial...whatever...I trained our dogs and did the trials on several occasions.

Bull. Stick to what you know.




Next time this animal is in my yard and I can restrain it I WILL be holding it until the police arrive.

A fence might be a little easier on the stress levels for everyone.

The majority of dog owners don't have enough voice control over their dogs but still think it's okay for them to be off lead.

I think you're going to be spending a lot of time holding dogs and calling the police. I'd rather spend the time doing more pleasant things.

But if you must ...you must.

Actually, I do have a gun... :p

Let's talk the next time you or your dog gets attacked for no reason except that you happen to pass it on the trail.

Talk about what? I have a story. It's an awful story though. I used to live in a small Colorado Mountain town many years ago. Back then there were packs of domesticated dogs that ran free every night. Their pack instincts ran rampant while they ran free at night.

A couple of friends were visiting from out of town and their flight was scheduled to depart early. It's a 2 hour drive to the airport. So we got up butt-ugly early had a bite to eat and then took their dog out for a quick pee. Lo and behold, the pack of dogs still on their nightly cruise descended on their mutt and tore him to shreds. A few thousands dollars later and a rescheduled flight they were finally able to leave with their dog.

What would you have done. Used your club? Maybe run into the thick of it and sprayed the dogs. Discharging a firearm at 4 am ain't gonna quell that situation either. If anything, your neigbors are gonna think you're a freak for shooting a gun outside at 3 am in the morning.

My point is that sometimes life happens. Living your life in the offensive all the time isn't living a life. Put the club down and join the rest of us.

Sometimes when dogs get startled, they lunge and attack. Best not to sneak up on them or their stupid owners.

Talk about what? I have a story. It's an awful story .

Yes, it's an awful story and I won't bore you with mine (and I have several.) Stuff will and does happen but the majority of these cases involve irresponsible dog owners who then have the nerve to say that they don't have anywhere to take their dogs...

There's a teaching forest in my area where people could bring their dogs - as long as they were on leash. Due to the fact that people ignored the rule, and the university got tired of off leash dogs attacking students and destroying plots under study, they closed the forest off to everyone. It was a great place to enjoy some peace and quite away from the city but because of jerks that don't follow the rules those of us that do can't enjoy it any longer.



If anything, your neigbors are gonna think you're a freak for shooting a gun outside at 3 am in the morning.

LOL! Not where I live!

Bull. Stick to what you know.

Do I know you? Is there some reason you are straight up calling me a liar?

The fact is that 15 years ago I was competing in obedience trails with my Boxer. We did about 6 or 7 of the trials and passed the novice level and the first leg of the open. To be honest I wasn't all that into it past the basics (this dog never would do the silent signal retrivals and I gave up) and never attempted the utility level. My sister did the utility level with her female Boxer (mine was male and pretty strong headed) but didn't pass and she also gave it up. Even with only Open training my dog was much more under control than the dog from the OP and I would NEVER take the dog off it's lead in public.

Do I know you? Is there some reason you are straight up calling me a liar?

The fact is that 15 years ago I was competing in obedience trails with my Boxer. We did about 6 or 7 of the trials and passed the novice level and the first leg of the open. To be honest I wasn't all that into it past the basics (this dog never would do the silent signal retrivals and I gave up) and never attempted the utility level. My sister did the utility level with her female Boxer (mine was male and pretty strong headed) but didn't pass and she also gave it up. Even with only Open training my dog was much more under control than the dog from the OP and I would NEVER take the dog off it's lead in public.

I'm sorry. :o I shouldn't be so assertive ...a jackass might be a better term. :)

No you don't know me. At least not from any other place than here. We both cycle ...that's it.

I was immediately miffed by your introduction to this thread because you asserted that by your experience training dogs you knew what appropriate dog/handler behavior was. I don't think you are any different than most people. I also think you are sorely mistaken. Regardless, I overreacted. Sorry.

Allow me to introduce myself with some part of my life's experiences.

I've spent a lot of time as a kid earning titles for obedience. I'll admit it was a geeky hobby. Some things never change. I've certified two dogs in Boulder and Gilpin Counties (Colorado) for wilderness and urban S&R. I've taught training techniques to ski patrollers for avy S&R with dogs. I've trained and sold bird dogs for hunting and recovery dogs in open water scenting for body recovery. Finally, I was invited to speak and demonstrate urban S&R tactics to a world S&R seminar in Munich. That was 17 years ago. I got out of S&R because I didn't like the all too often scenario of dead body recovery instead of live body recovery. Since then I've put my energies into mountain bike racing.

Back to my position on this matter...
The fact of this matter is that any dog, trained or not, can be a menace ...a threat to human safety. That goes for dogs on or off lead. I think this is where most people including yourself are mistaken. It's a basic tenent of dog training where dog behavior is concerned. Dogs have an instinctual set of behavior patterns that no form of training can completely quell. If you choose to believe me then great. That is my bottom line with dog behavior. People should act accordingly. Therefore, if you don't want an altercation with a dog whether it's on or off lead, then don't go near it. Unfortunately, that's the best practice to avoid a confrontation. If you choose to approach or get near enough that a dog approaches you, then you should be willing to accept the circumstances. Don't expect a human to be able to restrain a dog because its on a leash. That human holding a leash won't restain even some 35 pound dogs.

I realize that taking a no approach rule when it comes to dogs makes life a little difficult to live. So many people own dogs. It just isn't practical to live that way. But it also is short sighted to believe that a leash is a panacea to avoiding human/dog altercations.

Having said that, I agree with you that the lady is a dolt for allowing her dog to be off lead. Her dog harrassed your son. That's not okay. In fact, I have no tolerence for unruly dogs to the point that if I had a clean shot with my foot to their snout in that situation, I would take it and then read that woman the frikkin riot act. I think all of my aggression in that statement comes from my being mauled by a dog as an adult. I was knocked off my mountain bike by a dog while I was training alone. Somehow I ended up with a herniated disk and a lot of puncture wounds, skin tears and a dead dog. I'm still haunted by that situation. I can wholey appreciate your situation. In my situation, there was no one to take responsibility for the dog.

I guess in part I over reacted to your post because of the Pitbull thread on the road forum. There are so many lame opinions about dogs in that thread that it just kinda got to me.

I believe all dog owners should have a license to own a dog and that all dogs should be chipped.

Again, I apologize. Friends?

The different AKC titles earned through obedience trials:

CD (Companion Dog)
CDX (Companion Dog Excellent)
UD (Utility Dog)
UDX (Utlity Dog Excellent)
OTCH (Obedience Trial Championship)

There are other titles for tracking TD and TDX. Tracking remains as an odd ball in the list of titles because that's how obedience trials started. Not many people persue the tracking titles through the AKC.

Again, I apologize. Friends?

Sure.

In the future, especially if I see this woman again with the animal off lead, I will stop and get her to get control of the animal. She is really the problem here not the dog.

So, wait, knives, guns, pepper spray and bicycle pumps are bad?

That seems odd. I use guns and knives pretty regularly. Pepper spray, not so much . . . the bicycle pump seems pretty useful, though I use mine to put air into inflatable stuff.

For the record, there is absolutely nothing wrong with owning or carrying weapons for self-defense. If you want to go unarmed, you have every right to make that choice for yourself, but when you make fun of people who make another choice, you do yourself a disservice.

Ok didn't telenick just call Grasschopper a "jackass"? Now their friends? Ok.
I think whatever the situation when a dog is involved the owner has the responsibility to maintain control over that dog. Unless someone is intentionally aggravating or teasing the dog on lead or off.
I ride our MUT and about a week ago some lady has her dog off the lead paying no attention to me heading straight for her at about 22mph. I had to brake to about 5mph to navigate around her and the lab, she looks at me like "OH another person on the trail imagine that". It is great to let your dog run and be free but do it where they won't cause trouble for anyone else.
Grasschopper you said your wife was yelling at the person some 300yards that seems pretty far she might not even have heard anything.
Let's just all get along.

So, wait, knives, guns, pepper spray and bicycle pumps are bad?

That seems odd. I use guns and knives pretty regularly. Pepper spray, not so much . . . the bicycle pump seems pretty useful, though I use mine to put air into inflatable stuff.

For the record, there is absolutely nothing wrong with owning or carrying weapons for self-defense. If you want to go unarmed, you have every right to make that choice for yourself, but when you make fun of people who make another choice, you do yourself a disservice.

Well said.

I own two dogs (Queensland Blue Healers aka Aussie Cattle dogs) that I love dearly (and keep fenced or leashed), but I won't hesitate for a moment to use my pepper spray (or whatever is in-hand) on an unrestrained animal that comes after me while cycling or afoot. Anyone who puts a doggies' short-term comfort (pepper spray leaves no lasting damage) over a human's safety and well-being is, IMHO, downright silly. :rolleyes:

There's a country road in our area that is a really nice early morning ride but for the dogs running loose in a few spots. After a couple rides there and some very close calls (I almost ran over one that dashed in front of me), we simply don't ride that road anymore. I'm somewhat tempted to ride through there some morning with the county animal control guy (who I know) trailing behind me to snag these mutts and cite their ignorant owners. :D

An airline pilot I know used to cycle, but earlier this year an unrestrained dog ran in front of him, wiped him out and caused injury to his shoulder badly enough that he still may never get back on flight status. :(

Did you know you can punt a Jack Russell Terrier like a football? It's true, they don't fly very far but they don't run your bike anymore.I saw him lying in the grass so zI unclipped and when he went after me.........3 points! :roflmao:

Yep, and dobermans have weak ribs. Ask me how I found that out. :D

Anybody here ever run into a big old scruffy German Shepherd type dog in the country that acts like he wants to kill you and follows you for half a mile? Big old scruffy country dogs are the worst bane of a bike rider.

Some country folk actually stand there and watch their dogs come after you. I've had to ask them to call their dog on several occasions. In those cases, I've almost thought the person needed the pepper spray instead of the dog, but they are proud of their dogs because it gives them a sense of security knowing that their dog will viscously protect their property. I say if it will cure the dog, definitly give him the gas.

My hubby and I were walking in the neighborhood a few months ago and a German Shepard Dog shot out of a yard with such speed that I didn't see it coming till it was right there. Even though I knew better I couldnt help but let out a scream and take a few steps to run. Then I remember a video I saw about dog bites, where it said to be still, and avoid eye contact. My hubby twirled around and got nipped on the back of the thigh...fortuately had long pants on. We could also hear that there was another dog somewhere on the property barking (but fortunately it didnt come after us too.) After we stood like trees for a few seconds the dog calmed a bit and we were able to slowly walk away. It started to follow behind me, but I said , "Unh unh" in a deprecatory manner and the dog backed off.

When I told my friend who runs an animal shelter, she said we should absolutely contact the animal control department. She said a dog will become more bold with each attack. If there is more than one dog the situation can become lethal, especially to children. She says there needs to be an official record.

My hubby and I didnt want to cause trouble for the owner since we are new in the neighborhood. So we decided that he would write a letter to the owner asking her to keep her dog fenced or on a trolley. I drove my car down to the home about a week later to figure out the house number.....and the GSD again lept out of nowhere in front of my car, barking at me. Again I screamed. (I know Im a wimp but I was so startled I couldnt help it.)

My hubby wrote the letter on his letterhead from his law office. He got a sarcastic reply from the owner that never acknowledged her responsibility. She implied that his letter was irrelevant, since she didnt see his name on the homeowner association list.

I think my friend was right. We should have just sent the letter to the animal control. The owner could get sassy with them instead. I've not gone down that street ever since...I'm still scared of that dog.

I think you probably should contact your local animal control so they can warn the owner of the dog.

As we say here in Tennessee, "There aint no cure for stupid."

:(

I have a similarl "non-cycling" situation my self.

My neighbor has a "teen-aged German Shepherd". He loves to jump around and she does a good job of keeping him under control when in her custody, but she does leave him in the driveway chained to a tree (midway in the yard) by a long, long chain from time to time.

I don't have a problem with the dog being in the driveway. I do have a problem with the tendency of the dog to jump out at people unexpectedly. Here' the scanario I have seen over and over again.

You get off the bus and head down the block There are shrubs along the front of the house and yard until you come to the driveway.

Suddenly there is a barking, and rushing at you that you don't expect. You see a large German Shephard lunging at you and you nearly jump out of your skin only to find that the dog is chained to the tree and can't get to you.

This is highly unfair to the unsuspecting pedestrian. I am considering confronting the dog owner. I don't want to be "that kind of neighbor", but the situation really sucks! Why can't she post "Beware of Dog" signs, chain the dog to the back of the yard, or something?

Have to agree with The Other Guy, a frame pump across a dogs head/mouth works fairly well...........