I see more ladies than men, the guys tend to look often like work commuters, boots= like they might not even OWN a helmet.

The ladies however are often young, on cruisers or classics, doing the 'hair show'.
Less cyclists than voyeur -gers.
I find it has the reverse effect, I think of 'unprotected' riding as uncool, not sexy.

"When cycling...or in bed =put some protection over your head." ;)
The babe in town that rides a Ritchey..she had a helmet....stone fox.

Maybe on the MUP or 'country lane'...city riding minus a lid is not so smart.
I've rarely seen a mtb'er offroad without.

Most KIDS are smarter than some adult cyclists.
It was nice to see so many riders today though. ....even the dumb ones.

My little bike+rant for today.

I didn't realize that comas and persistant vegetative states were fashionable. Who knew?

I didn't realize that comas and persistant vegetative states were fashionable. Who knew?
It's all the rage now. Haven't you been watching any TV, man!

It's all the rage now. Haven't you been watching any TV, man!
Next you'll tell me that feeding tubes are out.......

i saw some statistics showing that in the UK only 18% of cyclsts wear helmets.

I never use my helmet, but i always wear it ;)

i have not hit my head from cycling since i was 10, that was 1 of those- get on brothers bike-brakes very strong-brake to darh downhill-go over handlebars moments, it was offroad so i think i was shocked more then hurt!

Did you know some cyclists, now im not llaking about bike riders, actual proper cyclists like you and I, decided not to wear helmets because they think they are 'counter intuative' you have a full sense of security with it on so are more lightly to crash. well lets hope for there sake that the lack of a sense of security will help protect there head when they hit the ground after 3000 pounds of steel strikes them at 30mph

I wear a helmet. It's politically correct. However, IMHO, it's protective merrits are suspect.

I find it has the reverse effect, I think of 'unprotected' riding as uncool, not sexy.

"When cycling...or in bed =put some protection over your head." ;)
The babe in town that rides a Ritchey..she had a helmet....stone fox.

Maybe on the MUP or 'country lane'...city riding minus a lid is not so smart.
I've rarely seen a mtb'er offroad without.

I'm usually not one for trying to divide cyclists into different groups but I find this to be an interesting thing amongst those who consider themselves as MTBers as opposed to those who consider themselves to be roadies. Coming from the MTB culture, even though I also am a roadie, I find that in MTBing, helmets are regarded as cool whereas that's not so much the case amongst the roadies. I think it's because as MTBers, we crash often and we crash hard so we've become more aware of the advantages of protection and we tend to know more about what works and what doesn't in that regard.

we crash often and we crash hard so we've become more aware of the advantages of protection and we tend to know more about what works and what doesn't in that regard.

Once did a slow-motion endo on my mountainbike - planted the front wheel in a small ditch. Felt like I was ballance strait up and down on the front tire for ever before falling forward and landing strait on top of my head on the far streem bank........ saw stars for a few seconds...had a helmet

Next you'll tell me that feeding tubes are out.......

Not without a court order they aren't!

I think it's because as MTBers, we crash often and we crash hard so we've become more aware of the advantages of protection and we tend to know more about what works and what doesn't in that regard.

my thought exactly...untill a week ago. As i am now switching to road, although will still do some mtbing, well i ways talking to some one, turns out well yeah on offroad its obvious you crash more, but on road when you crash you really crash! How does hitting the road whilst going at 50kmh sound to you. You may not come off every other week like oyu do offroad but a lot of the roadies have a very serious crash every year or 2!

Not without a court order they aren't!

Good one, and timely too

Enjoy

Next you'll tell me that feeding tubes are out.......
The Pope is on a feeding tube now.

The Pope is on a feeding tube now.

Stigmata

I'm usually not one for trying to divide cyclists into different groups but I find this to be an interesting thing amongst those who consider themselves as MTBers as opposed to those who consider themselves to be roadies. Coming from the MTB culture, even though I also am a roadie, I find that in MTBing, helmets are regarded as cool whereas that's not so much the case amongst the roadies. I think it's because as MTBers, we crash often and we crash hard so we've become more aware of the advantages of protection and we tend to know more about what works and what doesn't in that regard.

Then there are those, like myself, who think xc helmets looks really dumb but wear them anyways, so my brain stays semi intact. I wear more than just a helmet though, I usually have one other pieces of armour as well. :) Never know when that drop or jump will call my name :)

A mind is a terrible thing to taste.

Enjoy

The cute girls I see puttering around the USC campus on their cruisers are probably not at much risk for a head injury at the just above walking speeds that they use. I for one am all for those long blond locks flowing in the wind, not to mention the short shorts showing off those cycling legs. There has to be some benefit to living in this terrible city.

I mean if they were on a road bike doing 20mph then yeah, I would agree they look pretty stupid. But doing 8mph on the sidewalk for a 1/4 mile you'd be hard pressed to even skin your knee if you went down.

If you are looking at a beautiful girl on a bicycle and the first though that pops into your head is, "she should be wearing a helmet." maybe you should check if you didn't already fall on your own head?

I watched a little girl, about 8 or 9, fall off her bike from a dead standstill. Her head hit the ground, and her helmet broke into two peices. This fall was from an 11" frame 20" wheel bike! At a stand still! She did skin up her elbow.

This whole hair thing is the major impediment to my convincing my wife to commute to work. She knows I won't let her ride without a helmet and she thinks it's too inconvenient to do her hair when she arrives.

It's a girl thing, I guess.

My favorites are still the ones who ride with the helmet hanging off their handlebars like the handlebars need protection! Why even bring the thing along if your not going to wear it.

As far as other people wearing them or not, I figure it's their business not mine. I wear one and my kids wear one, that IS my business!

Although we have donated our bodies to science (back in the 70s, before it became 'fashionable') we always wear helmets while riding our tandem or single . . . why rush your demise?

If you are looking at a beautiful girl on a bicycle and the first though that pops into your head is, "she should be wearing a helmet." maybe you should check if you didn't already fall on your own head?
:roflmao:

Hair doesnt grow through scar tissue.
I've 2 little bald spots on my head that are 25yrs old from a ground strike while jumping bikes, no helmet.
I had the wheel come off at the top of the ramp and I endo'd headfirst onto the road...say 6 foot fall.
Some little road rocks clipped the follicles out and punched indents into my skull.

Having blood flushed from your ear canal is pretty nasty too.

Falling the wrong way even from a standstill can mess you up badly, I cycle offroad, have very good ballance skills and having skateboarded for years =know how to fall, distribute force. I almost never hit my head, the times I do -I have a lid.

I doubt any cycling novice on a cruiser is going to pull of a ninja roll to save her knoggin.
The people I see not wearing helmets are not serious cyclists, lack skill and are the most likely to be injured as they often ride sidewalk onto crosswalks, and have little plan as to deal with bailing off a cycle.

I'm just not able to fathom unsafe as cool, driving without a seatbelt isn't cool.
Rockclimbing without a helmet isn't cool.

We all need to learn Shaolin Cycling.

I've 2 little bald spots on my head that are 25yrs old from a ground strike while jumping bikes, no helmet. I had the wheel come off at the top of the ramp and I endo'd headfirst onto the road...say 6 foot fall. Some little road rocks clipped the follicles out and punched indents into my skull.
Sounds to me like the real problem was not tightening the wheel properly...

Sounds to me like the real problem was not tightening the wheel properly...

I overshot the landing ramp first try and broke my rear spokes.
My friend who modded his bike to run like mine (pre-bmx, you had to make jump bikes),
lent me his for a second try. No I didn't check the bolts.

Evil Knievel was a bad sports hero for me to choose.
Back then we used to skate ramps without helmets too.
Crazy kids.

The ladies however are often young, on cruisers or classics, doing the 'hair show'.
Less cyclists than voyeur -gers.
I find it has the reverse effect, I think of 'unprotected' riding as uncool, not sexy.



Great. Another nagging about the much overhyped, and not so useful, bike helmet.

How often must it be said that a bike helmet is just not that important? Fine, a helmet will protect your head from gashes and superficial injuries on the rare occasions when an adult cyclist falls and hits his head-- it hasn't happened to me on the road in my adult life, but for the pumped-up helmet crowd on this forum who are always having their "life saved" and "brain damage" averted by helmets every week or so, more power to you.

Of course, we should be hearing about the nasty gashes to the bone, torn flesh, and broken bones from all of the crashes you must have without body armor on the road. I mean, all of you safety minded people ride without *that* equipment. Yet, somehow, your skin is saved from "emergency room" incidents, smashed bones, and all the rest that you assert uncritically would befall your noggin if you weren't smart enough to wear a helmet. Strange, that.

What is just weird is the way the helmet threads always progress. It is never long before someone starts in with the hostile, violent fantasies about cyclists in comas, cyclists who are brain-dead, the lame jokes about Darwin, and all the rest. What the hell? Apart from the fact that given the thinly marginal safety benefits of helmets these comments are completely unwarranted, there is the mysterious connection between such hostility and *helmets*. No one is so obnoxious in lighting threads, threads where people do make perfectly sensible and sober recommendations against riding at night without lights. Lighting is by any reasonable measure *much* more important in staying out of accidents-- or, for the giggling crowd here, staying out of "comas", the "emergency room", "brain death", or whatever. Yet only when it comes to helmets is there such uncritical contempt offered.

I've said before I think this is, in part, because helmets send a signal to the world that what you're doing is dangerous, edgy, and therefore prestigious. Any reasonable remarks to the effect that cycling on the road just isn't that dangerous are not then just comments about how reasonable it is to wear a styrofoam hat on a particular occasion, but slaps at the egos of cyclists who think of themselves as daredevils. Hence the hostile reaction to anyone who says it's just not worth nagging anyone about wearing a helmet.

Whatever the reason, this piling-on when it comes to helmets is just weird, and it's more fitting to a junior high school locker room in its level of group-think than to a cycling forum full of self-professed critical thinking, rage-against-the-machine types.

For the very few here who have just heard it all before, let me point out that if you've ever gone swimming without a life preserver, or gone driving without a helmet, then you've run a risk comparable to riding a bicycle on a public road without a helmet. Scary, isn't it?

So, why don't some of you go post on the swimming forums and tell them how eagerly you await the comas and brain deaths of the members there? Write an op-ed telling motorists you giggle when you think of the drool that's bound to come from their unhelmeted heads? But, no, that won't happen. I understand, of course. The point of all this helmet ranting is not really rational, and it doesn't have to do with some special but neglected kind of risk-reduction. It's just some weird feature of the psychology of cycling that I wish would just go away.

Let's hope you don't die or be severely brain damaged one day from a preventable head injury because you weren't wearing a helmet.

Thank you, Merriwether - I agree completely!

Great. Another nagging about the much overhyped, and not so useful, bike helmet.

How often must it be said that a bike helmet is just not that important? Fine, a helmet will protect your head from gashes and superficial injuries on the rare occasions when an adult cyclist falls and hits his head-- it hasn't happened to me on the road in my adult life, but for the pumped-up helmet crowd on this forum who are always having their "life saved" and "brain damage" averted by helmets every week or so, more power to you.
Live and learn, I protect my head, I've struck it several times on a bike, helmet and no.

Of course, we should be hearing about the nasty gashes to the bone, torn flesh, and broken bones from all of the crashes you must have without body armor on the road. I mean, all of you safety minded people ride without *that* equipment. Yet, somehow, your skin is saved from "emergency room" incidents, smashed bones, and all the rest that you assert uncritically would befall your noggin if you weren't smart enough to wear a helmet. Strange, that.
Brain injury if often not repaiable and leaves the victim with lifelong injuries.

What is just weird is the way the helmet threads always progress.
Ummm, you seem to wish to push the thread in this direction.
It is never long before someone starts in with the hostile, violent fantasies about cyclists in comas, cyclists who are brain-dead, the lame jokes about Darwin, and all the rest. What the hell? Apart from the fact that given the thinly marginal safety benefits of helmets these comments are completely unwarranted, there is the mysterious connection between such hostility and *helmets*. No one is so obnoxious in lighting threads, threads where people do make perfectly sensible and sober recommendations against riding at night without lights. Lighting is by any reasonable measure *much* more important in staying out of accidents-- or, for the giggling crowd here, staying out of "comas", the "emergency room", "brain death", or whatever. Yet only when it comes to helmets is there such uncritical contempt offered.

I've said before I think this is, in part, because helmets send a signal to the world that what you're doing is dangerous, edgy, and therefore prestigious. Any reasonable remarks to the effect that cycling on the road just isn't that dangerous are not then just comments about how reasonable it is to wear a styrofoam hat on a particular occasion, but slaps at the egos of cyclists who think of themselves as daredevils. Hence the hostile reaction to anyone who says it's just not worth nagging anyone about wearing a helmet.
I consider road cycling MORE dangerous than offroad.

Whatever the reason, this piling-on when it comes to helmets is just weird, and it's more fitting to a junior high school locker room in its level of group-think than to a cycling forum full of self-professed critical thinking, rage-against-the-machine types.
Highschool sports encourage -no INSIST on proper safety equiptment. It would be proper to recommend to all young cyclists or B.F members to wear one IMO.

For the very few here who have just heard it all before, let me point out that if you've ever gone swimming without a life preserver, or gone driving without a helmet, then you've run a risk comparable to riding a bicycle on a public road without a helmet. Scary, isn't it?
I've almost lost my life several times by not using safety equiptment or sense. Now I side on caution.

So, why don't some of you go post on the swimming forums and tell them how eagerly you await the comas and brain deaths of the members there? Write an op-ed telling motorists you giggle when you think of the drool that's bound to come from their unhelmeted heads? But, no, that won't happen. I understand, of course. The point of all this helmet ranting is not really rational, and it doesn't have to do with some special but neglected kind of risk-reduction. It's just some weird feature of the psychology of cycling that I wish would just go away.

I will post to other cyclist on B.F about my observations, nobodies ranting except YOU seem a little hostile?
Well sorry, unless you're at the Velodrome..I think you should ride with a lid.
Sorry, I don't mean to say you are stupid, I do think you make poor decisions regarding protecting yourself cycling. Are you careless hiking as well? You might be out of the loop.

I've said before I think this is, in part, because helmets send a signal to the world that what you're doing is dangerous, edgy, and therefore prestigious.

I thought not wearing a helmet was how you let the world know you were dangerous and edgy.

The point of all this helmet ranting is not really rational, and it doesn't have to do with some special but neglected kind of risk-reduction. It's just some weird feature of the psychology of cycling that I wish would just go away.

I like the aerodynamic benefit mostly. Really.

People are encouraged (or enforced by law, as it were) to wear helmets for the same reason that they are encouraged to wear seatbelts. I still don't get this "It's my life, I'll do as I please even if I could be killed" mentality. I don't tell someone to wear a helmet because I want to impose my opinion on them, I tell them to wear a helmet because I am worried for their safety and I don't want to see them get hurt. Why are some folks so resistant to that?

Well, to tell you all the truth..I hate bike helmets! I look supremely goofy in them and I am the only road cyclist I see in my area wearing one. Now, having said that, I ALWAYS wear it...NOT because of all the hype and "PCness" but because I figure "what the hell, it can't hurt."

And I have solved the bad hair problem...I shaved my head :D .

Cheers,

Brian

Yea! the helmet wars have resumed!

I've said it before--I'll listen to any helmet zealot who also wears a helmet any time they are in an automobile. It is just as great a benefit in the car, so I'm sure you all wear them, right? If not, and you insist people are dumb if they don't wear one on a bike you are either a) a hypocrite b) ignorant of the facts or c) lacking in critical thinking skills. You cannot be "a" and "b" at the same time, you are most likely "c" regardless.

Were you all hall monitors in your school days? You do realize that you sound like nancy-boys going on about the certain horrific injuries that will be suffered by all non-helmet users. I expect as much from my fearful, anxiety-ridden grandmother. Good Lord, when are you people going to give it up?


In Dallas it is actually against the law for anyone, regardless of age, to ride without a helmet. A cop once informed me of this law when I was boarding the commuter train with my bike. "Really," I asked, "even adults?"

"Yup." he replied, slightly shaking his head and making it clear he couldn't care less about enforcing the niggling statute.
"Welcome to the Nanny State." I said, "Next thing you know they'll try to make you guys hold our hands when we cross the street."
And we both laughed.

Honestly I couldn't care more whether YOU wear a helmet or not. I don't know you, i'm not related to you and you sure aren't my friend.

Do I wear a helmet? Yes

Bicycle helmets help in minor accidents only,

Minor accidents are still life-threatening accidents if skull meets rock/pavement. "Help" is an understatement, considering it could very well save your life, or at least the functional part of it.



are used in an activity that is relatively safe,

"Relatively safe" implies a reasonable amount of danger.



improves ones health (fitness) and the health of others (less car accidents, less polution).

Completely irrelevant to the issue of helmet usage.



By equating the two, manufatures are creating a marketplace for their product using fear.
And finish it off by implying a nasty conspiracy, eh?

Why not just be honest and say you just don't like them, rather than trying to be misleading?

We should just uninvent every safety device made and let the problem solve itself.

Ah yes, the altruism of helmet zealots revealed.

Let us review:

Let's hope you don't die or be severely brain damaged one day from a preventable head injury because you weren't wearing a helmet.

Later, after I somewhat more strenuously objected to the mother henning of the helmet-zealots.

Honestly I couldn't care more whether YOU wear a helmet or not. I don't know you, i'm not related to you and you sure aren't my friend.

I believe, sir, that you omitted the "nannynannybooboo."

I assume this "you" is directed to me, but realize I've no problem with those who choose to wear a helmet. I think they should be able to wear one without hassle just like I would like to not wear one without hassle. I don't think you'll ever find somebody starting a thread with something like "I was out today and saw a guy wearing a helmet--what a wus!" But it's par for the course for somebody to have a thread title that says that those who don't wear helmets are stupid (airheads).

WEll, hold on here folks. This debate is really unbalanced. We have yet to hear from non-helmet wearers who have sustained fatal head injuries. What is this, a conspiracy to cover up the TRUTH?

I say: you don't wanna wear a helmet? Please, by all means, don't. No need to try to legislate it either; it's a survival of the fittest kind of thing.

What about all the helmet wearers that have sustained fatal injuries?
Hey, you are right! Thanks for reminding me of another contingent whose voice is not being heard! It is a conspiracy.

Fight the man! Fight the man!

Heh. Well, I was shooting for 7th grade, but thanks for the promotion :)

I accept the way you feel too, I think I said already. Again, you don't want to wear one? Suit yourself, maybe I'll pass your corpse on the way to somewhere (with my helmet on). They don't hurt, and they might help, and they're pretty cheap insurance. I don't live my life by statistics; that is stupid.

Ah yes, the altruism of helmet zealots revealed.

If you think i'm a helmet zealot, might as well kill yourself now. Take that 'you' in my post and replace it with 'every one of you'.

I haven't said ANYTHING that said, you better wear your helmet or X is going to happen. I did not tell you, you should wear a helmet, nor do I care. As in that last post you quoted from me.

Well..I was originally talking the collage set, 20-30's on old bikes, no helmets.
No vehicular conduct, little cycling skill and poor equiptment.
Biggest concern is looking good while cycling or in the case of helmets -not gettting helmet head.
I think THESE people need helmets, they ride like hell. No regard for thier safety or conduct that a cyclist is SUPPOSED to follow.

Anyway, you guys are having fun, closetbiker, many points you make I do see as valid. Thanks for always keeping cool. I would argue your right NOT to wear.
Your choice, and I'm pretty confident you have a certain amount of skill and understand vehicular law.

I am rather CONCERNED that people are careless in thier attitude towards cycling -yes an ejoyable pastime -can be dangerous and you should protect yourself.

One point you made I believe needs a re-read.

"I'm not sure what I feel the biggest problem with helmet promotion has been. Branding cycling as dangerous, or the belief that helmet wearing should be a priority over lights on bikes, following the rules of the road, and getting the status of our equal place on the road respected by other users so we end up with cyclists that wear helmets, but ride on the wrong side of the road, at night without lights and take risky moves on roads to get on that cycle path to be safe."

Good stuff. Probably closer to what I had intended to have the thread towards.

"Arguments like "anyone who rides without a helmet is exposing other cyclists to the disgusting and traumatic experience of having to scoop that stupid person's brains off the track," as expressed in the online helmet wars, strike me as pure bombast."

Well...why did you post it then? I don't believe THAT was in this thread.

Anyway, my concern is that some people have little regard to cycling as being anything but recreational, they don't follow common rules and looking good is more important than safety.
I see people riding home after drinking, no lights, poorly fitted bike and no helmet.
I feel I have to -and do follow the rules about safety and conduct..It can be a pain.

And for the time I can't out manouver the car that pulls some crazy stuff, I have a lid in case my head hits the road, a car, a pole, a curb. (Over 5 times in a year and a half)
Some of my paranoia is from knowlege about motorcycle accidents. And I ride pretty fast.

Back to the mud slinging!

I don't know about other chicks, because I am not paying attention to what other folks are wearing, but I don't go without a helmet. I did today because it literally fell apart on me, and I needed to go to Performance and buy a new one, so that's what I did. I took the bus, though.

Koffee

Biking is by and large a masculine sport, despite the praiseworthy minority of women bike athletes. I have a sneaking suspicion that the guys feel more macho, able to hold up their heads next to all those muscle car drivers, by exaggerating the dangers of their chosen form of (tran)sport. Biking is really dangerous, therefore I am a tough, serious dude. Let's face it, guys have this historical tendency to like armour and helmets and all that stuff. They tend to exaggerate the tremendous danger and pain of Heidelberg fencing, and then in the next breath assert that childbirth is no big thing. Right...

Nonsense. I play hockey, and the less helmet one wears is indicitive of how hardcore and manly a player is.

I used to just wear the helmet, with the ear guards removed and no cage or visor, and occasionally fastened the strap. I warmed up with no helmet. Then I had my nose half cut off by an errant stick (an expensive composite one no less).
Now I wear a half-shield and am not quite as manly as I used to be. But I've avoided being hit in the eye several times since.

That was part of the argument that I linked on the post. It was obvious that was the other persons writing wasn't it? no- It seemed to bring non BF member opinions into the present as if they are\were comments directed at people who were BF members who don't wear lids. Maybe it's my comprehension.

I included that part because of the many comments that used this argument. Like:

"I didn't realize that comas and persistant vegetative states were fashionable. Who knew?,
A mind is a terrible thing to taste and,
Let's hope you don't die or be severely brain damaged one day from a preventable head injury because you weren't wearing a helmet."

Ya.Hmmm.."A mind is a terrible thing to taste" is an album by Ministry.
"If you are looking at a beautiful girl on a bicycle and the first though that pops into your head is, "she should be wearing a helmet." maybe you should check if you didn't already fall on your own head?"
I didn't get all bent, and thanks for the restraint in not posting "That explains a lot" when I further posted that I have hit my head -several times.
Lets have a little class when having a discourse people.



It is bombast and gives the impression that this type of accident doesn't happen to anyone else in far greater numbers. It happens all the time. To drivers. To pedestrians. To old people. Brain injury also happens far more often to people who obtain their brain injury through lack of oxegen to the brain by heart attacks and strokes, something cycling prevents.

Ironic, isn't it, that the persistant vegatative state (and the following feeding tube remark) that was referred to was caused by a heart attack?

You mean Terry? Perhaps a bit off colour, not ironic I think.

If you think i'm a helmet zealot, might as well kill yourself now. Take that 'you' in my post and replace it with 'every one of you'.

I haven't said ANYTHING that said, you better wear your helmet or X is going to happen. I did not tell you, you should wear a helmet, nor do I care. As in that last post you quoted from me.

I misread your tone, apologies. It is often hard to detect if somebody is being ironic or not when reading text.

I say: you don't wanna wear a helmet? Please, by all means, don't. No need to try to legislate it either; it's a survival of the fittest kind of thing.

I was waiting for this good 'ol standby to come out. I retire from posting on this thread, I'm probably going to die any minute now because I ride without a helmet, so I have to get off the computer and relish each moment.

Apologies again, operator.

Every time I've had an accident during the event I've felt my head tucked safely in my helmet and said to myself, thank goodness I wore my helmet today.

That's been during my motorcycle accidents.

I know a guy who had a car accident while on his bike. Suffered a brain injury. He's just a little off now. He doesn't know it, though. The rest of us can tell.

I don't know about other chicks, because I am not paying attention to what other folks are wearing, but I don't go without a helmet. I did today because it literally fell apart on me, and I needed to go to Performance and buy a new one, so that's what I did. I took the bus, though.


If I was wearing a helmet on the school bus in 9th grade I never would have got that wad of Juicyfruit in my hair. Let that be a lesson to the anti-helmet crowd! Helmet not cool? Well, try on a wad of Juicyfruit and see how cool you feel!

I played hockey too, in the 60's and 70's. Back before helmets were worn. Guess how many head injuries there were back then? Less than since helmets were introduced. It's not about the helmets, it's the way the game has been played since. Above the shoulders was a no-no. It was never attempted. Helmets came in, sticks and elbows went up. Being face-washed into the glass happened. Head injuries started to show up.

It's how you do something that makes it dangerous. Not what you do.

None of this has anything to do with my point that since helmets became standard equipment, the optional bits (cages, visors) carry a stigma of unmanliness. It was the same when helmets were optional equipment -- players who chose to wear them were seen as being not tough. Then Bill Masterson died. Still, the stigma lives on.

I've knocked people out with my shoulder, so dirty/sloppy play has nothing to do with head injuries. Elbows were coming up before helmets. Gordie Howe was the master of a dirty elbow, and Pat Quinn put Orr on the path to retirement with one. Jeremy Roenick had his jaw shattered and Steve Yzerman hasd his orbital bone crushed by ordinary pucks last seasen. Both these guys are/were old school, no-visor guys who will be wearing them if/when they return.

For the record, helmet ≠ dangerous

Great. Another nagging about the much overhyped, and not so useful, bike helmet...Etc


yes very nicely argued- you should be a lawyer-I want you on my defence team