View Full Version : Safety Advice.
ADAJackMcCoy
04-04-05, 01:55 PM
Sorry guys, just inciting a little troll here, as it seems like others have taken the bait as well. I really can't find any statistics proving my point, so I deleted my message.
I have heard that my post was the case, but I cannot find any statistics to back it up.
Try this
http://www.kenkifer.com/bikepages/advocacy/mhls.htm
I like how Ken starts by saying, "These ideas do not square with my experience as a cyclist. Over 100,000 miles of cycling, much on highways, has resulted in my having just six falls during my life, none of them involving head injury and none requiring a trip to the doctor."
Because MY experience as a cyclist over about 6000 miles says that I've received 2 out of 5 falls onto my head. So who's "experience" is right here?
Can you draft while cycling?
Al
as a CAD drafter, i'm especially interested in the answer to this one.
i imagine hand drafting would be less safe, as the drafting table would be an obstruction, though i've seen stranger things...
:D
bk
I like how Ken starts by saying, "These ideas do not square with my experience as a cyclist. Over 100,000 miles of cycling, much on highways, has resulted in my having just six falls during my life, none of them involving head injury and none requiring a trip to the doctor."
is he under the assumption that everyone who chooses not to wear a helmet has skill and experience equal to his?
bk
Can I become an honorary Australian?.....
No way! I had to move her and marry one, so you can't become one just by asking. :D
By the way guys, sorry to interrupt your helmet argument, but what's the best chain lube?
I bought some popcorn yesterday for just that reason -- would you like some?Are you eating the popcorn while you're eating a danish while you're smoking a cigarette while you're talking on a cell phone and typing posts to BF? I can't see your helmet.....
Are you eating the popcorn while you're eating a danish while you're smoking a cigarette while you're talking on a cell phone and typing posts to BF? I can't see your helmet.....
It's ok, I think he's got it all laid out on his drafting table.
is he under the assumption that everyone who chooses not to wear a helmet has skill and experience equal to his?
bk
I have no idea what his assumption was.
as a CAD drafter, i'm especially interested in the answer to this one.
i imagine hand drafting would be less safe, as the drafting table would be an obstruction, though i've seen stranger things...
:D
bk
If you can somehow get a version of autocad to run on my cateye, I believe I can draft and ride. Or given a 3d program, model and ride. Actually.. I can model and ride without the computer...
bikeboy
04-04-05, 05:35 PM
How can I convince local boyscout troops to come to the bicycle co-op to earn their cycling and community service merit badges?
We have the bikes, parts, and LCI instructors.
The scouts can even take a bike home with them if they want.
I attempted to contact local troops through their websites but I suspect they do not get updated or checked very often.
Hello.
I'm a registered counselor for the Cycling Merit Badge in my jurisdiction (Boise, ID).
I'd recommend you get registered as a counselor in the local BSA Council. (Not just anybody can give merit badges.) That would likely give them incentive to provide your name to prospective clientele.
Just in case you're not aware, the Cycling MB is quite involved - not a one-afternoon badge. It requires several rides of 10 and 25 miles, and finally a 50-mile ride. In the 10 or 12 years I've been a counselor, I've signed off on ONE Cycling Merit Badge. Most casual scouts never get to the 50-mile ride.
Allister
04-04-05, 06:28 PM
Simply put you don't & you can't. As far as I'm concerned if anyone rides with out a helmet is not riding safely. Yes, they may be controlling their bike in a safe manner, obeying traffic laws, etc, etc, etc. But they are still not riding safely because they are with out a helmet. They are a danger to themselves.
I call BS on this one. By this reasoning it's impossible to ever ride safely with or without a helmet. If the mere chance of injury constitutes not riding safely then we're all up siht creek. If, the other hand, a safe ride is one where the rider doesn't actually crash, and uses all the skills and awareness at their disposal to bring this happy circumstance about, then all of us do that the vast majority of the time. And here's the clincher: wearing a helmet does absolutley nothing to increase a rider's skill or awareness. It is in no way a safety device. It is a damage limitation device.
So while I do encourage people to wear a helmet, please don't delude yourself into thinking it'll make you 'safe'.
I can go 40mph on flats, how can I increase that to 50mph?
PLEASE ANSWER THIS! Every time I pass Operator on the flats, he spills coffee on me!
2manybikes
04-04-05, 07:18 PM
How do I ride safely without a helmet?
:lol:
Just stay on the couch and pretend you are riding.
I can actually ride brakeless this way.
Helmet Head
04-04-05, 07:23 PM
Serge, the answers I gave is in accordance with what I would do or have done based on personal experience & the laws & ordinances in my community & state.
Great. And the answers I gave are in accordance with what I would do or have done based on personal experience & the laws & ordinances in my community & state, but they are also in accordance with what I have learned from others, particularly from those who have written books, pamphlets, websites and essays on the topic of traffic cycling safety, from the correspondences I've had with experts in the field, and from the courses I've taken on the topic.
They are not wrong.
Some of the answers you provided were wrong. Let's take your first answer, to my query on how to avoid getting doored, as an example:
How do you avoid being hit by an opening door of a parked car while riding at 20 mph on a 6 lane road with high speed/high volume traffic?
Slow down & look ahead. Look through the window or in the side mirror to see if you can spot drivers wanting to get out of their vehicle. And ride a little more to the left of the parking lane if you can.
Here you provide advice that I have not seen printed since 1974. Since then, the cycling community has figured out that the way you avoid getting doored is by avoiding door zones, period. Any habits that include ever riding in door zones put the cyclist at unnecessary risk. Sure, you can get away with it for thousands of miles. But you're playing Russian Roullete. Sooner or later a door will open unexpectedly, and, if you don't run into the door, you could get run over as you swerve left to avoid it. It is simply nuts to recommend riding in door zones at anything faster than pedestrian speed, which is absurdly impractical and you did not explicitly or even implicitly recommend anyway.
All the answers were was advice & an opinion. Not an absolute truth.
My language does not imply absolute truth. You contend it is unsafe to ride a bike without a helmet in at least as a strong a tone as I made my statements, do you not?
If you read my initial thread carefully you'd notice I used the words advice.
I did read your initial post (not thread) carefully, and, well, in terms of safety, which is what you're claiming you're providing, some of your "advice" is bad.
I guess for your benefit I should have been a little more clear & stated it is based on my personal experiences as well as the laws & ordinances in my community & state.
FYI, generally "safety advice" (the title you chose for this thread) is based on education in a given field, not just the personal experiences of a single person and a quick skim of the relevant laws. You might want to read a few books and maybe even take a few classes before you start dispensing your "advice" garnered from your experience. IYour basis is not an impressive sample size...
Sorry that was my mistake. But don't ever tell me I'm wrong, even in a subtle way, especially when I state I'm just offering advice. It is up to whom ever I give the advice to use it or not.
My dear sir, you offered "safety advice" to "anyone who asks for it". I asked for it, and it is my opinion that at least some of what you offered in return did not qualify as "safety advice", and I explained how and why. (http://www.bikeforums.net/showpost.php?p=1025320&postcount=25) I even warned you that I already had my own answers, and I was just curious as to what yours were. If you wish to defend your answers and challenge my corrections, go ahead.
In fact better yet just don't talk to me or respond to any of my threads here in the forums. Fair enough?
Sorry. If you or anyone else is going to offer what I consider to be dangerous advice, and particularly if you market it as "safety advice", I will continue to point out the problems with it.
2manybikes
04-04-05, 07:33 PM
How can I carry a cup of coffee and a danish with me on my morning ride?
You don't carry the Danish. You make him the stoker and have him pedal like crazy as you take a sip of your coffee.
I call BS on this one. By this reasoning it's impossible to ever ride safely with or without a helmet. If the mere chance of injury constitutes not riding safely then we're all up siht creek. If, the other hand, a safe ride is one where the rider doesn't actually crash, and uses all the skills and awareness at their disposal to bring this happy circumstance about, then all of us do that the vast majority of the time. And here's the clincher: wearing a helmet does absolutley nothing to increase a rider's skill or awareness. It is in no way a safety device. It is a damage limitation device.
So while I do encourage people to wear a helmet, please don't delude yourself into thinking it'll make you 'safe'.
I should have worded what I said differantly. I never meant to imply that wearing a helmet causes you to control your bike in a safer manner & that not wearing one means you are unable to control your bike safely. I know that all a helmet is, is a damage limitation device.
There is always the risk of having an accident no matter how skilled & safe a cyclist is. The unknown can happen because of certain factors that cause it to happen at any moment.
But a person is a danger to themselves if they are not wearing a helmet while riding. I too encourage people to wear a helmet. I tell people is greatly reduces the risk of a serious head injury in the event of a crash.
I should have worded what I said differantly......
There is always the risk of having an accident no matter how skilled & safe a cyclist is. The unknown can happen because of certain factors that cause it to happen at any moment......
:eek: ...... :rolleyes: ....... :roflmao: ........ ;) ........ :)
Allister
04-04-05, 08:36 PM
I should have worded what I said differantly.
Yes. What you should have said was; 'It is quite possible to ride as safely without a helmet as with one. But if you crash and hit your head, it's going to hurt more if you're not wearing one.'
Hey, I'm looking for a thread where the contributors will tear me a new one everytime I make any kind of mistake or don't express myself clearly. Do I have the right place?
Hey, I'm looking for a thread where the contributors will tear me a new one everytime I make any kind of mistake or don't express myself clearly. Do I have the right place?
Fo shizzle
Word.
http://www.mtv.com/shared/media/images/artist/v/vanilla_ice/az_official/376x180.jpgClick me (http://demand1.stream.aol.com/ramgen/timelife/gl/timelife/6724/06724_02_10_ice_ice_baby.rm?pageid=av-results-in-browser-wrapper)
Word to ya mutha :roflmao:
http://www.x-entertainment.com/pics/cool1.jpgClick me (http://www.angelfire.com/hi/senyeow/iceicebaby.MID)
One more evil than the other :D
http://img32.exs.cx/img32/2084/gettomsword6ej.jpgdon't click me (www.I-told-you not-to-click-me.com)
I knew that was coming.
Hijack complete.
In the words of some of the younger folk on this forum.....
Owned
D
I'm laughing, but I don't understand why.
Darn it; you've done it again Raiyn!
Rowan, can you name any of the guys on the Word box?
Allister
04-05-05, 05:49 AM
Rowan, can you name any of the guys on the Word box?
One of them looks a lot like that guy off Law And Order SVU.
Allister
04-05-05, 05:52 AM
http://www.mtv.com/shared/media/images/artist/v/vanilla_ice/az_official/376x180.jpg
That guy takes his Scissors Paper Rock very seriously.
don't click me (www.I-told-you not-to-click-me.com)
Hey! that's a dud link.
I'd like to offer any safety advice to anyone that asks for it. I am the RIDE RIGHT Coordinator for the Siouxland Cyclists, the bike safety coordinator for the Siouxland Trails Foundation, the bicycle safety person for the City of South Sioux City & a merit badge counselor for the Cycling Merit Badge with the local Boy Scouts in my community. So I feel I'm well qualified to answer any questions anyone might have regarding bicycle safety. If you wish you can post a thread here asking or send me a PM.
Thank you.
John
If is safe to ride a bicycle on the footpath (walkway) ?
I call BS on this one. By this reasoning it's impossible to ever ride safely with or without a helmet. If the mere chance of injury constitutes not riding safely then we're all up siht creek. If, the other hand, a safe ride is one where the rider doesn't actually crash, and uses all the skills and awareness at their disposal to bring this happy circumstance about, then all of us do that the vast majority of the time. And here's the clincher: wearing a helmet does absolutley nothing to increase a rider's skill or awareness. It is in no way a safety device. It is a damage limitation device.
So while I do encourage people to wear a helmet, please don't delude yourself into thinking it'll make you 'safe'.
Going under a Torana of all cars while riding a bike and seeing the damage done to the helmet instead of my head yes the helmet made me feel safe.
Rowan, can you name any of the guys on the Word box?
Law and Order (not SVU) he plays one of the ADA.
Rowan, can you name any of the guys on the Word box?
<pokes head out from under Tasmanian rock>
No :eek:
<draws back under Tasmanian rock>
Sidenote: Ignorance IS bliss.
<pokes head out from under Tasmanian rock>
No :eek:
<draws back under Tasmanian rock>
Sidenote: Ignorance IS bliss.
You Tasmanian Devil!......You!!.......6 more weeks of summer?.....
N_C......Should I carry a safety in my wallet while cycling?.....Or.....Should I squirrel it away in my helmet to be doubly safe?....
Allister
04-05-05, 07:46 AM
You Tasmanian Devil!......You!!.......6 more weeks of summer?.....
6 more? Tasmania doesn't get 6 weeks of summer in the first place.
(Born and bred in Burnie - I know wherefore I speak)
Allister
04-05-05, 07:48 AM
Going under a Torana of all cars while riding a bike and seeing the damage done to the helmet instead of my head yes the helmet made me feel safe.
My god! So you have ridden a bike!
6 more? Tasmania doesn't get 6 weeks of summer in the first place.
(Born and bred in Burnie - I know wherefore I speak)
That's what I like about BikeForums.....I learn something new everyday.....
noisebeam
04-05-05, 08:48 AM
How do I ride safely without a helmet?
A helmet helps keep ones head shaded and cool during the hot dry summer months, which helps prevent cooking the brain.
Seriously. So far that is the only benefit I have gotten from mine. Maybe a sombrero would do the same, but that would look funny on a road bike.
I wonder though as the label in my helmet says never to expose to above 120dF. I've ridden in 122dF, is my helmet no longer safe?
Al
If is safe to ride a bicycle on the footpath (walkway) ?
If it is legal & not against any of the laws or ordinances in your community & you do so safely then yes it is safe. But keep in mind the other traffic on the walkway. A lot of them are going to be those that are running, walking & skating. Some of these people may be wearing headphones, others may not be totally aware of their surroundings. So despsite the fact that you may be a very safe cyclist the danger will probably come from the other walkway users. So you need to be more aware of what is going on thenyou usually are. Be prepared for anything. If it is not legal, though it may be safe to do so I recommend against it.
My god! So you have ridden a bike!
Allister has fainted.
Yes Allister shock horror or as you put it "My God" or as the girl from the Pizza Special said "oh my God" I have ridden a bike but I have ridden hardly at all (Allister has fainted again) since I got hit.
So don't think you know something about someone as you could end up being wrong.
Helmet Head
04-05-05, 10:48 AM
If is safe to ride a bicycle on the footpath (walkway) ?
If it is legal & not against any of the laws or ordinances in your community & you do so safely then yes it is safe. But keep in mind the other traffic on the walkway. A lot of them are going to be those that are running, walking & skating. Some of these people may be wearing headphones, others may not be totally aware of their surroundings. So despsite the fact that you may be a very safe cyclist the danger will probably come from the other walkway users. So you need to be more aware of what is going on thenyou usually are. Be prepared for anything. If it is not legal, though it may be safe to do so I recommend against it.
Perhaps the greatest danger to a cyclist when riding on multi-use paths is where these paths intersect roadways. Motorists on the roadways often do not expect anyone traveling faster than walking or jogging speeds at these intersections, and can easily not see you. Be extremely cautious at any points where the path intersects a roadway, including where it starts and terminates.
Serge
<pokes head out from under Tasmanian rock>
No :eek:
<draws back under Tasmanian rock>
Sidenote: Ignorance IS bliss.
Now go find the Tiger and collect your money. :D
ADAJackMcCoy
04-05-05, 04:50 PM
Law and Order (not SVU) he plays one of the ADA.
Actually, that's Ice T, who plays a detective on SVU. I should know! :D
Allister
04-05-05, 05:01 PM
Actually, that's Ice T, who plays a detective on SVU. I should know! :D
Told ya. Actually there's a few there that I recognise. I'm just not prepared to admit it in public.
oops.
Actually, that's Ice T, who plays a detective on SVU. I should know! :D
He must have shaved then or he could still be the ADA unless of course Ice T become a ADA.
As maybe Rap music was not doing any good as didn't he write a song about killing cops and now he is playing a cop?
I'm trying to learn as much as I can about riding safely before I head out on the rural mountain roads where I live (speed limit 40-55 mph, winding, up and down mountains). I've seen discussed the Vehicular concept (take the lane, ride at least 1/3 of the way into the lane is safer than along the right edge), and 'riding as if you were invisible' -- which I don't think I understand -- you aren't relying on vehicles to stop / slow / change direction to avoid you -- which seems to go against the VC.
Am I not understanding the fundamentals of these concepts? or are these truly competing philosophies regarding the safest way of riding on public roads?
- Don
2manybikes
04-08-05, 09:46 AM
I'm trying to learn as much as I can about riding safely before I head out on the rural mountain roads where I live (speed limit 40-55 mph, winding, up and down mountains). I've seen discussed the Vehicular concept (take the lane, ride at least 1/3 of the way into the lane is safer than along the right edge), and 'riding as if you were invisible' -- which I don't think I understand -- you aren't relying on vehicles to stop / slow / change direction to avoid you -- which seems to go against the VC.
Am I not understanding the fundamentals of these concepts? or are these truly competing philosophies regarding the safest way of riding on public roads?
- Don
It's really not at all. The term "invisible" confuses the issue. First, get a helmet/glasses mirror like the Take-a-Look mirror. Spend a few days using it until you are comfortable with it. Then, you ride in a place on the road where you will be most visible to motorists. But, you do not just assume they can see you just because you are in the safest place to be. Until you are convinced that they have seen you and are acting accordingly you have to assume they may not see you. If you use the mirror and someone is going to pass too close you can move over or possibly get off the road. Same for cars coming from any direction you may have to adjust what you do.
It's similar to not looking one way, when you pull out into a one way road. It's one way, no one should be going the wrong way, but you better look anyway.
Vision-
04-10-05, 06:05 PM
...merit badge counselor for the Cycling Merit Badge with the local Boy Scouts in my community. So I feel I'm well qualified to answer any questions anyone might have regarding bicycle safety.
What about those hanky things the Boy Scouts wear around their necks? Don't they fly up into their eyes when they ride? Do you lose your chance at the merit badge if you can't see and veer off the trail into a creek?
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