Singlespeed & Fixed Gear - Weak Left Knee

Hey,

Since I just started riding the fixed gear, I think I've caused myself a problem: I went to play basketball last night and suffered a scary moment of sudden, shooting pain in my left knee. From talking to my friend, a doctor (though NOT an orthopedist), I'm pretty sure that it's patellar tendonitis. Anyone out there know some good exercises, or have a link to some specific leg-strengthening, at-home therapy for this? I'm 33, in decent shape, skinny, with no history of knee/joint problems. I'd like to continue riding the fixie, but I just think that the negative resistence is putting too much stress on my non-dominant leg, and I don't want to exacerbate.

Thankyamuch.

Hey,

Since I just started riding the fixed gear, I think I've caused myself a problem: I went to play basketball last night and suffered a scary moment of sudden, shooting pain in my left knee. From talking to my friend, a doctor (though NOT an orthopedist), I'm pretty sure that it's patellar tendonitis. Anyone out there know some good exercises, or have a link to some specific leg-strengthening, at-home therapy for this? I'm 33, in decent shape, skinny, with no history of knee/joint problems. I'd like to continue riding the fixie, but I just think that the negative resistence is putting too much stress on my non-dominant leg, and I don't want to exacerbate.

Thankyamuch.

Though I'm not suggesting you couldn't have hurt yourself in some way, the act of resisting works your legs in a way that is quite a bit different than riding a bike that can freewheel. You will gain strength and flexibility over time... be patient.

What gear are you pushing? I've found that riding a lower gear in the high 60's low 70's lets me spin easily w/o stressin' out the knees, and has been good rehab for what were once a pretty creaky joint.

speaking of "joints", looks like that disturbingly freudian llama ate some jalapenos or somethin'.

I recall reading a thread somewhere on these boards about how somebody's foot positioning on the pedal was giving of his knee some troubles...

Foot position is critical for keeping my knees happy. I find that if my knee is hurting I usually need to rotate my toe in a bit more towards my frame. Also, if you're worried about the resistance messing up the knee, put a brake on your bike and use it.
Good luck :)

i'm in physical therapy now for patelar tendonitis that i ignored and overworked. my orthopod had me rest/baby the knee for a coupla weeks, then had me start on stabilizing exercises (super slow leg presses with low weight; chair sits up against the wall), and then got me back on the bike for longer and longer rides.

a

I have problems with petelar tendonitis also, i play ultimate as well as ride, and it gets bad sometimes when i do alot of both. A couple other things i've found helpful.
since you just switched to riding fixed, Check your setup and positioning on teh bike, especially saddle height and position. Saddel too far back causes me problems, i use a 0 setback seatpost and that helps. Also, I am an over pronator, and have a great deal of varus(when running or pedaling, the outside strikes first, then the foot roles inward=bad for knees) Lemond makes this product calle Lewedge that helps. It is a set of shims, that fit between the cleat and shoe, so that you push at the proper angle, felt alot better after using them.

And when it hurts. You have to rest it. It will only hurt more.

I was going to say LeWedge (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=84153&highlight=lewedge). It makes sense that bodies don't line up with bikes very well.

Many times issues in the knee actually originate elsewhere in the body.
To keep it simple, though, consider the fact that the knee operates between the ankle and the hip.
On the bicycle, one has considerable control over the ankle and the hip.
Try pedaling with the hip and buttock muscles instead of the thigh muscles (the thigh muscles transfer stress into the knee).
One can do this by imagining a strong rubber band between the heels of the two feet.
Focus on the left heel and buttock and push sideways with the whole leg as the foot descends in the forward portion of its circle.
If this has anything to do with your problem, it will disappear within a minute of mindful spinning and will return when you forget.

Stop playing B-ball. That right there does more damage to your knees than riding a fix. The fix actually builds leg strength and stability. No sudden ligament tearing lateral movements like B-ball. Once you get used to riding a fix comfortably, there's less fighting and straining with pedal movements.

My own knee problem came from positioning on my bike. Proper fore/aft and height does wonders. Also try a lower gear. When i got my bike fit down the pain went away over time.

Each time you do something wrong on a bike you don't just do it once, you do it over and over-- in no time you can screw yourself up.

Lower gears, better fit.

Alright, all,

Thanks for the tips. I'm certain that I've actually injured something--I was actually remembering that I originally felt something while stretching to run back in the fall. I had a sudden, sharp pain under the kneecap. Everything I've read points to patellar tendonitis as the culprit. As far as gears go, I'm running pretty low gears, I think: 44x19. I brought it down after I received suggestions from others on this board. My positioning: I've been VERY diligent about adjusting this: got a new, longer-reach stem, fixed the saddle height and tilt, etc. I know that this is coming about because I've just jumped in really hard, really quickly (kind of did that with basketball the other night, also). Now, from experience and the inevitable, good lessons I've got from aging, I do NOT want to exacerbate the situation and I'd like to work on rehabbing the knee BEFORE I actually have to go through rehab. Also want to start running again, but no way I'm going to do it while it's feeling like this.

What are chair sits, exactly? How do I do 'em at home? Anyone know some good PTherapy links, I'd love to check them out. Thanks again, everybody!

I'd bet money you are riding without a brake eh? If you ride a fix and aren't riding on the track than you should have a brake as it does work away at your knees when resisting the fixed gear.

I'd bet money you are riding without a brake eh? If you ride a fix and aren't riding on the track than you should have a brake as it does work away at your knees when resisting the fixed gear.

I do have a brake, but I haven't been using it a lot. I can't skid or even skip yet, so basically, the negative pedalling I've been doing has been gradual slowing to stops, for the most parts. Once you can do it with your legs, the brake feels like more work. I'm wondering if I should just switch over to a singlespeed freewheel.

:(

What are chair sits, exactly? How do I do 'em at home?

chair sits are where you place your back against the wall, with your feet out in front of you, your knees bent almost 90 degrees. imagine sitting on a bench up against the wall and having the bench removed--you look like like you're sitting but are actually doing a squat. you just hold that position for a little while, maybe while you brush your teeth or listen to a song. eventually, your knees will start to shake laterally, and that's how you know you're giving a workout to the stabilizing muscles.

a

I'm going thru the same stuff, I have a touch of patella tendonitis possibly from riding my fixie. I am 55 YY and have been cycling for 40 years. I think it is the result of asking my knees to do something different, namely slowing, skidding and skipping. It is a scary pain for someone who has had no knee problems. My regular non fixie cadence is 95/100. I'm riding a 70 in. gear. I'm also dialing in my positioning. Seat height, stem length and seat. This takes time to dial in a new bike but it also takes time to adjust to a new venue. It could have nothing to do with the fixie, since last week I also did some MTB single track with some short steep climbs that taxed my knees also. Dont despair, just be vigilant about geting the bike adjusted right, don't ride a big gear initally and spin. I chose the 70 inch gear because it is wind here but flat. With little or no wind I wanted a gear that would give me a 20 mph or so average speed at my normal in season cadence.

a,

Thanks for the description. I remember doing those with my crew team back in college, but never had the name. I'll do those, sound perfect for my issues.

Wheel Doc,

I'm 33 and just started riding the past few months. Before I was a runner and tennis player, and until this, had NEVER had any knees problems, other than some ilio-tibial band inflammation. I figured out the stretches for that, and I've fixed it. But as you say, it's scary to have sudden knee problems--and this WAS sudden. Thanks for your input, and it's great to know I'm not the only one who's facing these age-related issues. I'm going to keep my gearing low, also.

p.

a,

Thanks for the description. I remember doing those with my crew team back in college, but never had the name. I'll do those, sound perfect for my issues.

Wheel Doc,

I'm 33 and just started riding the past few months. Before I was a runner and tennis player, and until this, had NEVER had any knees problems, other than some ilio-tibial band inflammation. I figured out the stretches for that, and I've fixed it. But as you say, it's scary to have sudden knee problems--and this WAS sudden. Thanks for your input, and it's great to know I'm not the only one who's facing these age-related issues. I'm going to keep my gearing low, also.

p.

In my 30's I was addicted to Racquet Ball. It didn't bother my knees but my ankles. I still have to be very careful with my cycling. My left ankle is prone to achillies tendonitis if I don't pay attention to my peda; stroke, shoes and cleats.

I've been riding with a new set of shoes and pedals for 2 weeks and my knees have been in a lot pain around the kneecap ever since. Before this new setup I never had a problem riding fixed, even long distances and up and down hills. I had an inkling it was bad cleat placement. I will get some beer and tweak my setup tonight.

all these lengthy replies when your knee pain could be something as simple as incorrect saddle height.

i know that when riding my fixed gear if my saddle is only 2mm (or more) too low my knee hurts like beyotch. try raising (or lowering?) you saddle in very small increments.

Hey, thanks for putting a name on this problem (patellar tendonitis). I posted a couple of weeks ago asking whether I should be worried about the sensitivity below my patellas, and was told to get a smaller gear, which I've done. Unfortunately the smaller gear hasn't helped. If anything it's encouraged me to put on more miles, which has in turn negated any possible benefit of the smaller gear. I felt it today during my ride. I think I'm going to have to take a short break. Right now though I'm going to get a bag of ice.

Hey, thanks for putting a name on this problem (patellar tendonitis). I posted a couple of weeks ago asking whether I should be worried about the sensitivity below my patellas, and was told to get a smaller gear, which I've done. Unfortunately the smaller gear hasn't helped. If anything it's encouraged me to put on more miles, which has in turn negated any possible benefit of the smaller gear. I felt it today during my ride. I think I'm going to have to take a short break. Right now though I'm going to get a bag of ice.

pain below your knee cap can certainly be a symptom of your saddle being too low. with a freewheeling bike incorrect saddle height is MUCH less apparent. fixed gears will teach you a lot about positioning in my experience, and will make you a much better freewheeling biker to boot.

Is your friend the doctor pretty sure about this? You should get him to recommend a specialist if this is not his field anyway. Your thoughts of caution on riding the fix is very wise.

pain below your knee cap can certainly be a symptom of your saddle being too low. with a freewheeling bike incorrect saddle height is MUCH less apparent. fixed gears will teach you a lot about positioning in my experience, and will make you a much better freewheeling biker to boot.

Thanks. I found an old post ("link for fit nerds" or something) about an article on this subject. The article says a saddle that is too low can cause patellar tendonitis through over-compression of the joint. I've used the heel on the pedal test before, but lately I've just used the height that felt right. The heel test says it's a good 1/2" too low. I'll move my saddle up after a few days off. I just walked back from the store (with ice) and my knees straight up hurt.

I'm looking for that link now...not to mention stocking up on the ice bags, taking some pills and doing some chair sits.

now that you got you saddle where it should be you should give the fixie a rest for a while. if you knee is already aggravated then no matter where your saddle is it will only make it worse. yes and lots of ice and ibuprofen

I second/or third the statement about the importance of saddle height. I have been having some knee pain that was diagnosed as patellar tendonitis. I thought my positioning was already good based on what I have read on the web but until I had a professional fit me I didn't realize my saddle was more than an inch too low!

I really recommend getting a professional or someone who knows what they are doing fit you. It's really hard to get it right when you do it yourself. Also, when someone looks at you they can tell if you are making some strange motion that you can't see yourself. I think I got lucky, because the guy at the local shop seemed pretty competent and thorough. He charged $40 but it was worth it!

pain below your knee cap can certainly be a symptom of your saddle being too low. with a freewheeling bike incorrect saddle height is MUCH less apparent. fixed gears will teach you a lot about positioning in my experience, and will make you a much better freewheeling biker to boot.

Yes, You can get away with some incorrect positioning on a SS/FW bike that you can not with a fixie. I think the stresses are different on the knee because you are always "connected" and there is no pause or lag. I suggest this approach. Using a Video camera and a stationary trainer tape your ride from all angles you can and then study it. I was trained in the "Fit Kit" and after the initial fit I would make a video tape and would study it with the rider and make small changes. It is amazing what you can learn from this videotaping since you almost never see yourself while your riding. With the new digital video cameras you can get great close ups of all the areas of concern, and slowmo is amazing. It can be really enlightening. You see knee action etc. The view from the front shows you pronation and knee alignment. From the side the knee pivoi in relation to the hip/seat. It is just amazing!!! What you can see. I am getting a new JVC Camera from HSN, it does all I need for $250. I have a good fluid trainer and tripod. My old JVC was strictly analog and BIG. It finally crapped out. Now how do I explain the CC charge to my wife?

Yes, You can get away with some incorrect positioning on a SS/FW bike that you can not with a fixie. I think the stresses are different on the knee because you are always "connected" and there is no pause or lag. I suggest this approach. Using a Video camera and a stationary trainer tape your ride from all angles you can and then study it. I was trained in the "Fit Kit" and after the initial fit I would make a video tape and would study it with the rider and make small changes. It is amazing what you can learn from this videotaping since you almost never see yourself while your riding. With the new digital video cameras you can get great close ups of all the areas of concern, and slowmo is amazing. It can be really enlightening. You see knee action etc. The view from the front shows you pronation and knee alignment. From the side the knee pivoi in relation to the hip/seat. It is just amazing!!! What you can see. I am getting a new JVC Camera from HSN, it does all I need for $250. I have a good fluid trainer and tripod. My old JVC was strictly analog and BIG. It finally crapped out. Now how do I explain the CC charge to my wife?



See, though, the only thing that concerns me about getting a professional fit is the potential for heavy 'suggestions' from the 'fitter.' I met this guy recently who told me that he got a professional fit upstate for 160 bucks or something--that's more than my bike cost. Then, he said, because of the session, he got talked into swapping just about everything out of his bike and replacing it all to the tune of 700 dollars. I like the idea of getting the 'perfect' fit, but I know that if I do, the fitter is going to end up telling me that my 120-dollar beater fixie conversion is all wrong, and that I need to go and invest in a 600/700 dollar track bike. I just don't see that as a good. And though I do think bike fit is important, I'm also leary of someone who tells you that unless you have the absolutely perfect (i.e. expensive) gear setup, you're doomed to a life of chronic pain and injury. Do any of these 'fitter' people work with what you have? Just wondering, is all. :(

I fear sounding like an advertisement, but....

ITS ALL ABOUT THE SUPERFEET. They are insoles that you put in your shoes and they help to position your foot right. Yes this effects your knee as well as your alignment etc.

If you dont belive me, perform this test (superfeet required - they have them available to try at any athletic shoe store): stand barefeet, legs hip distance apart, knees slightly bent and arms straight out in front of you. have a friend try to push your arms down while you try to keep them parrallel to the ground. Notice your weight shifts to your toes and you come off your heels. NOW, put the superfeet on the ground and just stand on top of the insoles as if they were in a shoe. Now perform the same test with your friend. This time notice that your weight stays evenly balanced at the center of your feet and your heels and toes are both firmly on the floor. Also notice that you are able to keep your friend from pushing your arms down with less effort. And then if you are me you spend your grocery money for every pair of shoes you own. They really help me since i pronate badly and am pigeon-toed.

They really should pay me for this.

When i had a fitting recently, the only thing they tried to sell me was the LeWegde for 24.99. And i am glad they did. I wasnt charged for labor, because i only needed a couple of minutes for them to make some minor adjustments. They did recomend a zero setback seatpost, which would also require a longer stem, but they did not push me to buy them there, and infact even offered to swap the thomson seatpost from my mountain bike and so it would be set up perfectly.

Since your not getting fit for a new bike, i would think your lbs would be able to help you get your set up dialed in, without taking too much time, and at a pretty low cost