Rides and Races - Toronto Fixed

Any of you guys have any experience touring? I've been idly looking at touring bikes but I keep ending up looking at cyclocross bikes instead, which seem more versatile and race-friendly

Hey Shiz, I just got back from a huge tour of Europe (Belgium, France, Holland, Germany, Czech Rep., Austria, and Poland) on a self-built cyclocross/touring bike. So, I think I can say I know a fair bit about what you'll want and where to get it. I scrounged parts online and kept it below $1000 for the exact bike I wanted. PM/email me any questions.

Basically, I highly recomend going with a cyclocross frame vs. a pure touring bike, especially if you want to ride off-road for an extended period of time, unless you want to carry >50lbs. The big things to consider are the gearing you'll need (I found out the hard way that you'll probably need smaller gears than you think), how much you want to carry, and how you'll transport the bike.

Any of you guys have any experience touring? I've been idly looking at touring bikes but I keep ending up looking at cyclocross bikes instead, which seem more versatile and race-friendly, but with essentially touring (slightly tighter) geometry and the whole glut of brazeons, rack and fender mounts. Soma doublecross comes to mind. Is this a good idea for a bike to cross canada, keeping in mind I will want to fart around on it in Toronto before and after?

I've done a little bit of touring - mostly some rides from London to Newmarket and in-between - and the cross-bike is not a bad choice, though the tighter geometry makes for not so smooth a ride as compared to a touring bke. I say go for it though, as cross-bikes do really well in urban areas, and are slightly less useful than touring bikes on long trips - thus, they average out better in the long-run. Plus, cross frames are super-strong and relatively light (at least moreso than touring bikes), so get one mutha-****a! :)

well I was looking at the trek 520 as the archetypical touring bike, but the geometry really isn't all that different from a cross bike. In fact its basically identical geometry, but the cross bike just seems more lively... Not that I can say much as I haven't really ridden either bike... I'm basically keeping my eye on a used double cross with chris king/ mavic wheels and ultegra components (38/46 with a big fat cassette). ***** stem, ergo bars, STI levers, cantis... For hauling I was sort of considering a BoB Yak, but realized that it would totally kill the drafting advantage my buddy and I could use from each other. Its also heavier, bulkier, smaller capacity and more expensive than high end racks/panniers. I like the MEC Aqua-not pannier group. I'll worry about that later though...

cavernmech: I know you're not really involved with the planning of it this year, but in past years has the halloween alleycat always been on the 31st? (ie. not on a weekend necessarily) I have a bunch of stuff happening around that time, so I'm just curious whether I'll be in town or not.

ye olde george browne chef schoole. i'm not a chef yet but i likes the booze. guess i'm on my way.

where do you work?

Right now I teach Hospitality/Tourism (food prep, baking, nutrition, safety/sanitation etc.) at Danforth Colligiate and Technical Institute. Basic program that leads into the grade 12 college prep classes. Fun stuff. Never knew that you could swear in class and basically get away with it. Nice to have bouncers..I mean hall monitors at school to escort those who have requested a trip to see the V.P.'s. Last place I worked in T.O was the Granite Club. Did the old G.B. appreticeship program like 10 years ago. Siegfrieds still open?

Yeah, I'd be there. And feelin' mighty old about it too, I might add.

cam, are you back at u of t? nice one... you free for lunch sometime? roberator? lunch ride?

I have a repair/purchase question. I have this hub

http://www.johnhenrybikes.com/catalog.asp?whichpage=&search=&mode=price&category=45&subcategory=80&item=2039

and need to replace the axle, threads are stripping. I am going to assume that I need to buy a specific axle to fit this hub as when I popped it out I saw it has a metal sleave around tha axle on the inside that I can remove, and need to make that axle fit inside the hub. Any ideas where to buy?

cam, are you back at u of t? nice one... you free for lunch sometime? roberator? lunch ride?

me too! me too! :P

I'm basically keeping my eye on a used double cross with chris king/ mavic wheels and ultegra components (38/46 with a big fat cassette). ***** stem, ergo bars, STI levers, cantis...

38/46? hmm...I've got 36/50 and sometimes I envy roadies who have a 53 on flats and downhills, but like Shiznaz says, while carrying a load you'll be thankful for the lower gearing.

38/46? hmm...I've got 36/50 and sometimes I envy roadies who have a 53 on flats and downhills, but like Shiznaz says, while carrying a load you'll be thankful for the lower gearing.

Really? I've never really run out of juice on my road bike with a 52, even on downhills. I hit 65km/h and still could have spun a little faster. For the amount of time that I'm at those speeds I'd prefer to have lower gearing and coast the downhills, personally. Especially on a touring bike. I've never wished for HIGHER gearing, but there's been a number of times I've wished for slightly LOWER gearing. I think I'd consider going with a triple if I was building up a touring-specific bike.

ps. I've seen you whizzing by a few times lately. :) Each time I haven't had a chance to say hi though (going the opposite way, in my car, etc)

cam, are you back at u of t? nice one... you free for lunch sometime? roberator? lunch ride?

Yes, I suggest tomorrow (Thursday) or Friday.

Ah U of T. Classes start on Monday! I am afraid but excited.

What the hell happened to the weather?

Um, fixed gear bikes, blah blah.

I think a double will be enough.... Hopefully! I'll worry about gearing later as its easy to switch up.

Here are more frame comparisons. Cyclocross and touring seem like the same thing to me really, except cyclocross bikes tend to be somewhat lighter and have less features. The Double Cross really does seem like a cross/touring though; I'm starting to really like it.

Ah U of T. Classes start on Monday! I am afraid but excited.

What the hell happened to the weather?

Um, fixed gear bikes, blah blah.

You mean they started 2 days ago Monday.

Yes, I suggest tomorrow (Thursday) or Friday.

friday is best for me. all are welcome of course! i've got stuff to give to cam is all. lunch rules apply. they'll be strictly enforced.

friday is best for me. all are welcome of course! i've got stuff to give to cam is all. lunch rules apply. they'll be strictly enforced.


What are the lunch rules?

What are the lunch rules?

you gotta eat. :p

You mean they started 2 days ago Monday.

No, I mean they start next Monday. You are one of the many unfortunates who started this week. I, however, am not.

That mean Rob needs an extra week of edumacation? :lol: Rob where do you work that you couldn't make it to Global Gutz?

That mean Rob needs an extra week of edumacation? :lol:

he needs an extra week to "edumacate" the frosh.

Nothing wrong with teach Frosh a few things.

Course its more fun to do TIFF this week but then again there is only so much bleach blonde and fake tan I can take before I need something with some sense of reality. It reminds me why I never move to LA, after a week you realize just how far removed from reality it is.

Props to all those continuing in the higher education struggle, I am once again part of the "taking a break" crowd. C'est la vie, at least I can actually go to all the fun events I missed last year.

PS: CV this week...anyone? if the rain stops...

this touring geometry talk interetes me. i always assumed that the major difference between a cross and touring frame was not only the heel clearance for panniers and braze ons but also the heft of the frame. aren't steel touring touring frames tripple butted like mountain bikes?

I love Frosh. I grow up and become sensible and they stay annoying and immature!

I totally avoided this years frosh week... No point.. I can't even talk to half these kids... I actually felt almost old seeing them going down yonge street. And I hardly ever feel old!

The more I compare cross and touring bikes, the less differences I see between them. Cross bikes are cooler though.

The Soma Double Cross is only 1cm shorter in wheelbase than the Trek 520, even though its chainstays are 2.5 cm shorter. This is good in my books as I prefer a longer front end and a snappier back end, but I hope I dont' need that extra inch of heel clearance. The Soma has a longer top tube and head tube which are also good in my books. At this point it seems more a debate on price, tubeset and colours, and the Soma wins on all of those points (Soma available used vs. Trek 520 new, tange prestige tubing vs. Trek butted Cro-Moly, british racing green vs. black). I don't think the Kona Jake, Specialized Tricross or Fuji Cross Pro have as many touring-friendly features as the Soma Double Cross so that kind of rules them out as well.

I love selling stuff to myself....

he needs an extra week to "edumacate" the frosh.
Ah ..... I see..... how did he get that gig?
shiz.... if you feel old... I feel ancient.
I think Jeremy is onto something with the triple butting. Hanging a full touring kit off a cx frame and then rolling it down a mountain road could result in some pretty painful frame failure.

Course its more fun to do TIFF this week but then again there is only so much bleach blonde and fake tan I can take before I need something with some sense of reality. It reminds me why I never move to LA, after a week you realize just how far removed from reality it is.

Speaking of which.. I'm going to see American Hardcore tonight, and I'm curious as to what sort of folks will turn up. A doc about hardcore music with an $18 ticket? Seems wrong. :P (then again, I'll be there, so I guess I'm going against my punk ethic ;))

edit: http://www.intermedia.net/about-us/news/2006/IT-people-are-different.asp

ps. I've seen you whizzing by a few times lately. :) Each time I haven't had a chance to say hi though (going the opposite way, in my car, etc)

downtown or up near st clair? i'd give you a honk if i knew your car description (though for some reason i think you drive a volvo).

In other news, I've been really accident-prone this week: on monday I fell down a flight of stairs at my apt and on the weekend i fell turning in front of a bus near spadina/bloor (martino of blog-fame saw me fall from behind).


Speaking of which.. I'm going to see American Hardcore tonight, and I'm curious as to what sort of folks will turn up. A doc about hardcore music with an $18 ticket? Seems wrong. :P (then again, I'll be there, so I guess I'm going against my punk ethic )

I got a free ticket from a friend who's volunteering at the festival...I might not be able to use it, so if anyone is interested pm me.

i think the soma double cross would be considered an all purpose bike; most CX frames i'm familiar with are essentiall road bikes with cantis and clearance for mud. some of them don't even have bottle braze ons! let alone mounts for racks. still i like the soma line; i'd consider buying one if i were in need of that type of thing...

doesn't urbane have a touring / crossish frame available?

downtown or up near st clair? i'd give you a honk if i knew your car description (though for some reason i think you drive a volvo).

Once on St. Clair, another time.. umm.. I can't remember where. Somewhere downtown I think.

me == dark blue vw jetta:

http://static.flickr.com/1/686267_56f948c1ac.jpg

this touring geometry talk interetes me. i always assumed that the major difference between a cross and touring frame was not only the heel clearance for panniers and braze ons but also the heft of the frame. aren't steel touring touring frames tripple butted like mountain bikes?
Butted just means the tube wall tapers to a thinner thickness in the center of the tube. Double butted....2 wall thicknesses...triple butted...3 wall thicknesses. True touring bikes will often use a tubeset that has thicker wall thickness regardless of whether it is double or triple.

Babel and Death of an American President have been by far the best movies I've seen so far, but the new Gordon Pinsent film is supposed to be suburb as well, as is the one featuring Peter O'toole.

I love Frosh. I grow up and become sensible and they stay annoying and immature!


Just when you thought your year was bad, it's worse the closer you get to first year glibbness, lets-get-a-4.0-average, drink-like-a-moron and revel in the good life type attitude, free from your parents slash I-can-do-whatever-I-want.

I hate you.

Rob...I find your cynicism about youth very amusing. :lol:

2006 Soma Double cross 54cm 4.2lbs
1986 Trek 520 56cm 4.55lbs

This is for frame only (I could only find a weight for the 1986 trek 520)

To me that difference is negligible and given the advances in tubing over the last 20 years I would be willing to bet the double cross is a stronger frame.

Butted just means the tube wall tapers to a thinner thickness in the center of the tube. Double butted....2 wall thicknesses...triple butted...3 wall thicknesses. True touring bikes will often use a tubeset that has thicker wall thickness regardless of whether it is double or triple.

so a triple butted tubeset will taper to a thinner wall diameter near the centre of the tube?

thanks for the use of the pump yesterday btw...

The strongest are just 4130 gas pipe frames but they are heavy and no fun. (I'm looking at you, urbane and pake)

Once on St. Clair, another time.. umm.. I can't remember where. Somewhere downtown I think.

me == dark blue vw jetta:

http://static.flickr.com/1/686267_56f948c1ac.jpg


i thought: you == burgundy mini-buggy-like thing.

Wes really drives a Lada
http://membres.lycos.fr/jdd2003/lada.jpg

so a triple butted tubeset will taper to a thinner wall diameter near the centre of the tube?

thanks for the use of the pump yesterday btw...
Yeah...so a triple butted tube would have say 0.8mm ends...0.4mm center with 0.6 separating

The Soma Double Cross is only 1cm shorter in wheelbase than the Trek 520, even though its chainstays are 2.5 cm shorter. This is good in my books as I prefer a longer front end and a snappier back end, but I hope I dont' need that extra inch of heel clearance. The Soma has a longer top tube and head tube which are also good in my books. At this point it seems more a debate on price, tubeset and colours, and the Soma wins on all of those points (Soma available used vs. Trek 520 new, tange prestige tubing vs. Trek butted Cro-Moly, british racing green vs. black). I don't think the Kona Jake, Specialized Tricross or Fuji Cross Pro have as many touring-friendly features as the Soma Double Cross so that kind of rules them out as well.


A couple of comments from my touring experience. Using a 58cm frame as a point of comparison, the Soma has a top tube length of almost 2 cm longer than the Trek, which would be a plus for me. The Soma comes in 10 different sizes in 2cm increments, 5 for the Trek which may be useful for you. Chainstay length is better on the trek, 2.5 cm longer than the Soma. Nothing bites more than hitting your heels when riding or having a tough time descending properly because you can't get your pedals level without hitting a bag. Gearing on the stock Trek looks a little high. The 52 front is nice for wheeling about when you're unloaded, but for self-support touring, it may not be as useful on a loaded bike depending on your terrain. Have a good look a the availalbe gear ratios. The Bontrager components have come under some critique on roadbikereviews.

And although this is the greatest thread in the history of BF, you may want to post something in the touring forum.

Rob, $12 for the stem - not $20.

Rob, $12 for the stem - not $20.

Yup, i'll be down tomorrow... or Friday. Thanks eyefloater.

TRaffic Jammer-

Do you have the GG pics up anywhere? or are you gonna put them up somewhere?

I'd like to look at 'em.

Speaking of which.. I'm going to see American Hardcore tonight, and I'm curious as to what sort of folks will turn up. A doc about hardcore music with an $18 ticket? Seems wrong. :P (then again, I'll be there, so I guess I'm going against my punk ethic ;))

[QUOTE]So had i came back on the train for this i'd be over 100.00 wow.I read some, reviews pretty fast paced & crazy, perfect for peeps with A.D.D. CANT WAIT TO SEE IT.
Cheers
who's to say the people who will show up? middle aged overweight white people,just a guess!
ha ha
Edit: I like bikes.

Rob...I find your cynicism about youth very amusing. :lol:

heheheh


The strongest are just 4130 gas pipe frames but they are heavy and no fun. (I'm looking at you, urbane and pake)

indeed


i thought: you == burgundy mini-buggy-like thing.

if I had a garage to put one in maybe.. it'd be a sin to drive that in the Winter (it's a Fiat btw)

Right now I teach Hospitality/Tourism (food prep, baking, nutrition, safety/sanitation etc.) at Danforth Colligiate and Technical Institute. Basic program that leads into the grade 12 college prep classes. Fun stuff. Never knew that you could swear in class and basically get away with it. Nice to have bouncers..I mean hall monitors at school to escort those who have requested a trip to see the V.P.'s. Last place I worked in T.O was the Granite Club. Did the old G.B. appreticeship program like 10 years ago. Siegfrieds still open?

yes sigfried's is still open; i suppose it's there less for the revenue and more for the students to practice. you'll have to point me where to go to look for apprenticeships. i needs to work!

i dunno if anyone has seen them (not the greatest quality, esp. steve anthony's pieces)...CMWC '95 toronto. i remember checking it out, and still being able to buy upper canada beers direct from the brewery (along with seemingly endless samples if you were nice to the staff).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCMFdUoz-8Y&mode=related&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGlpNW4HbuY&mode=related&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIR53x9AeDE&mode=related&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuQuX5HQPYQ&mode=related&search=

i dunno if anyone has seen them (not the greatest quality, esp. steve anthony's pieces)...CMWC '95 toronto. i remember checking it out, and still being able to buy upper canada beers direct from the brewery (along with seemingly endless samples if you were nice to the staff).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCMFdUoz-8Y&mode=related&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGlpNW4HbuY&mode=related&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIR53x9AeDE&mode=related&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuQuX5HQPYQ&mode=related&search=
Thats hilarious. I have a copy of that film here at the shop. I wonder who put it up on youtube? I am actually in a few shots. I am FAMOUS YAY!

Interesting how many people worked w/ backpacks back then.

Well that '92 messenger vid in the states had people using front baskets on bikes. One strap bag = recent?

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?p=3049835

I asked over at the touring forum. Hopefully I will get some pearly nuggets of wisdom by tomorrow. Thanks cam, keith, wes, gboy, ggy and jeremies!