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I was wondering what the best lane position would be in this situation (pictured below). I encounter this hill on my commute - the bike lane goes away after an intersection, and the outer lane isn't a wide one. I'm crawling up at around 10 mph, while the traffic is overtaking me at ~45 mph.
Lately, I haven't been feeling comfortable with being on the far right, as I the lane isn't wide enough to share completely. Thus, I've been planting myself in the middle of the lane, forcing other drivers to shift lanes to go around me. However, I started reading some Hurst, and I am starting to think that it would be courteous of me to shift to the right of the lane to make it easier for drivers to pass me.
What do you think?
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I voted for Keep to the center, but move right for passing cars, assuming that you would only do so when safe. Also, you must be careful to only accomodate passing that still encourages them to move at least partially into the adjacent lane. If you move too far to the right, you will encourage them to squeeze into the lane as they pass you. At least that's what I do in this situation. If you're uncomfortable with that, then just stay in the center.
Who is "Hurst"?
However, I started reading some Hurst, and I am starting to think that it would be courteous of me to shift to the right of the lane to make it easier for drivers to pass me.
Me too - who is Hurst?
The safest place is far enough into the lane so that cars CAN'T pass you - aka squeeze by you and possibly hitting you or forcing you off the road into who knows what.
If you feel that you are holding up traffic, pull off a time or two and let the cars pass, then continue up the hill.
Is the hill really that long that traffic can't wait a short while until you are moving a little faster?
I voted for stay to the right. But by that I don't mean the gutter. Besides I didn't realize you had 3 lanes of in the same direction. Stay far enough into the lane to avoid the trash on the side and car doors id there is parking. Some reccomend riding where the right side wheels of cars/trucks would be because that would be the place with the least debrie and oil sliks.
Joe
Robert Hurst is the author of "The Art of Urban Cycling" - some good reading I picked up the other day. He covers the history of cycling (and its influence on the automobile), and safe riding in urban areas.
The hill is pretty long, about a mile of moderate grade, very little in the way of driveways or intersections. There are two other lanes, though. Traffic on this road seems to come in pods. I can get half-way up the hill without a car in sight, and then up comes roaring a group of about 15-20 cars. It's not enough to make me feel too guilty about holding up the drivers in the right lane who didn't bother to anticipate me and shift lanes, thereby getting themselves stuck drafting me, but I don't enjoy getting honked at much (although it only happens ~ once a week on this route).
Well its easy to say take the lane and move right when safe to let cars pass (my vote,) but...
This is totally contrary to being an effective cyclist, but based on hundreds of miles of very narrow 2-3 lane each way suburban high speed (45-55mph travel speed) roads:
I have found that when I take the lane during busy rush hour traffic wanting to go 55mph, I get so many close passes when drivers squeeze half way over the lane line in a tight gap that opens up as to be worse that riding to the right and gettting consistent close passing.
There is a 2mi stretch I have to ride where I regulary get passed by cars with about 1 ft. of clearance - no kidding. Taking the lane, even left biased in the lane makes for the same 1 ft clearance even more common and with an angry driver behind the wheel. The alternate is to ride on the sidewalk as it is the only route to my house.
There are other similar roads with a very narrow lane where I don't have this problem and mostly take the lane, but this particular 2mi stretch is so busy that nothing I do can make for safe passing.
Al
Throwing out the "slow" signal (left arm out and pointed down at 45 degrees) works remarkably well at keeping motorists back and to the left...
I know the VC police will say I'm wrong, but I have to ride up a very steep, very narrow hill every day. It only has a single lane in each direction, however. I ride as far to the right as I can because the drivers will try to pass me anyway, no matter how much of the lane I take, and when they do, it presents a very dangerous situation in that there's a lot of blind curves and a whole lot of oncoming traffic. Drivers are so stupid and so impatient they still try to pass me. So I give them as much room as they can so at least I won't be invovled in a multi-car pileup. Those drivers who are not maniacs do wait behind me, because even far to the right I'm taking up a good chunk of the lane.
On the way down, I take up the whole lane. Nobody is dumb enough to try to pass me going down. Well, at least the number of idiots seems to be vastly limited on the downslope of this hill. There still are a few.
I agree with joeprim - #4. That's been working for me for almost 20 years.
Contrary to some opinions, I find that most motorists are happy to work with me. I try to do everything I can to work with them. I ride almost every day (358 days in 2004) and get honked at maybe 3 times a year. (And those three are boneheads - punks or little blue-haired ladies.)
I'm still trying to figure out how to put my left arm out while cranking up the hill... darn if that just doesn't throw my whole cadence off and make me ride even slower...
Ooh - I was playing around on google maps, and there are some back roads I can take in this area (I was tipped off from a description of the Food Park ride, which splits off into the hills at Irvine Center Drive and Tesla). It might make for a more interesting ride - I'll have to try it out tomorrow.
I'm still trying to figure out how to put my left arm out while cranking up the hill... darn if that just doesn't throw my whole cadence off and make me ride even slower...
Move your right hand to the center of the bar... right next to the stem. That way pulling doesn't screw with your steering.
It depends. Can traffic pass you safely if you are safely in the right side of the lane? If yes, than ride to the right. If not, ride in one of the tire tracks. Don't ride in the center, that's where oil drips.
One of the reasons I say to use the full lane is that there are two other lanes cars can use to pass. If traffic were one lane in each direction, I'd have a different answer.
Do you encounter this hill in the morning, when it's still kinda dark? You may want to add some flashers so that oncoming cars will see you better and move to the centre lane sooner.
I voted for stay to the right.
I usually stay far enough over so that I'm not in the gutter, but I'm not in the dead center of the lane either, probably right 1/3. If traffic dets dicey at all or I come to an intersection of anything I take the center. Yesterday I was too far over and hit some glass and flatted, which sucked.
Move your right hand to the center of the bar... right next to the stem. That way pulling doesn't screw with your steering.
Here is a bit more to ponder: on my "truck," my heavy touring bike... it tracks so true that steering is not an issue.... doesn't matter... unless I am standing.
On my road bike, I tried this last night (before I read your response actually) and I did just naturally shift my hands without thinking about it.
Writing about it on the net I was thinking about standing going up a hill... but in reality, if I am looking back, I am not standing.
Now if I am in fact "grinding up a hill," I will probably be standing and there is no way to signal at that point. So that is where your "outstretched hand move" just doesn't work. Perhaps you never stand on your pedals. Most cyclists do.
Every time I signal, I sit first. Makes the bike more stable... but slows me down too. I know there is a fine line there... I have discussed with some folks the advantages of standing or not standing... it depends on your ability to maintain cadence... which depends on the hill, and your gears.
I voted for keep to the center, but move right... But I feel that you shouldn't try to move right until the autos bunch up behind you.... you are safer if you only allow them to pass after they have slowed down... besides they have two other darn lanes to use... sheesh.
Of course it would be really nice to have your own lane to use, that the auto traffic stays out of... but that is another thread.
I was thinking about this kind of situation the other day while I was out, though my own situation is a bit different . . . I'm usually going up twisty roads, single lane each direction, no passing lanes, no shoulder, few turnouts.
In places where *I* feel it would not be safe for cars to pass me (blind corners or other spots where sightlines are short), I move leftward, e.g. toward the centerline. This will usually stop all but the most impatient drivers (have had a few take the full opposing lane to go around me -- scary!)
I'm not sure going even further toward the center is safe, because if there were oncoming (downhill) traffic, and someone was trying to pass me, I suspect they'd cut their pass short (e.g. into me) rather than risk the head-on collision or backing off from passing (there generally wouldn't be enough time for the latter, anyway).
So my approach on these is: right tire track most of the time; if cars are behind/waiting to pass, move rightward at the first safe opportunity -- watch for opposing traffic when being overtaken and be ready to react (move right/ditch/whatever) in case someone decides to cut it short.
... I've been planting myself in the middle of the lane, forcing other drivers to shift lanes to go around me. However, I started reading some Hurst, and I am starting to think that it would be courteous of me to shift to the right of the lane to make it easier for drivers to pass me.
Someone who's traveling along in a marked lane only has to (i.e., must) consider two lateral positions; the "primary position", and optionally the "secondary position". Tom Revay waxed eloquently (http://list.massbike.org/archive/200002/0174.html) about the subject on the massbike list some years ago:
The sense of entitlement of some drivers, and their denial of others' ordinary civil rights to the public way is astonishing.
In England, a cycling expert named John Franklin published a really good book on vehicular cycling. It's called "Cyclecraft," and it's published by the Stationer's Office (equivalent to the US Gummint Publications office). You can buy it from Amazon...
Franklin talks about "primary" and "secondary" lane positions. Primary position is in the middle of the lane, and it's where he advises cyclists to ride, unless they're on busy roads where the other traffic moves faster than the cyclist and safe passing room [within the lane] exists. At those places, the cyclist assumes secondary position, which is closer to the road edge. In some situations, such as approaching intersections when you're going straight ahead, he'll advise primary position, regardless. This is also what Effective Cycling teaches about lane positioning.
However, a lot of time in EC classes is spent telling American cyclists that they don't have to squeeze out of the way of every motorist out there, and that they have as much right to the road as anyone.
Bruce, that's a good way of writing down what I did today. It worked a lot better than just hogging the lane. Looking back at the cars (so they know that I know they're there) might have helped them slow down a little and pass me with plenty of room. Occasionally, though, I'll still get an old lady that will just crawl behind me because she's too afraid to change lanes, even when there are no other cars behind her! Oh well - it's what I get for riding by Leisure World, I mean "Laguna Woods"...
Looking back at the cars (so they know that I know they're there) might have helped them slow down a little and pass me with plenty of room. I'll bet it did! That's actually one of my favorite tips to pass along when I teach Road I. In addition to giving you the best view of that rearward quadrant, it gives the folks behind you a pretty reliable clue that your desire is to move/turn toward/across their path. Because mirrors (at least as a general rule) don't provide that clue, I don't wear one while demoing such maneuvers and I require students to turn & look when they perform the maneuvers.
I disagree with all of you. Stay to the LEFT! Of course most of you are nuts and drive on the wrong side of the rode...so for your saftey stay right!
I saw these two rodies today riding on an extreemly busy road. You could probalby call it a highway, and its 3 - 4 lanes across and it always busy with cars going 80km/hr. There were a pair of 2 riders on the left lane, not in single file but taking up half of the lane riding beside each other. This caused major trafic problems with astonishing amouts of cars having to merge with the already bust lane beside them. And if thats not bad enough, the one on the outside, closesed to the 80km/hr traffic had no helmet on! We drove past and I mumered to myself 'stupid idiots'. Some people just dont think about themselves or others.
Depending on the road width, I stay to the left a little while riding to avoid getting cut off by people making right hand turns and to be seen better by cars coming out from side streets. When stopped I try to be over far enough to the left so that a car can make a right turn on red. Motorists (myself included) appreciate this.
One thing I've found is that people are generally very poor at judging distance and speed.
sun
I'll bet it did! That's actually one of my favorite tips to pass along when I teach Road I. In addition to giving you the best view of that rearward quadrant, it gives the folks behind you a pretty reliable clue that your desire is to move/turn toward/across their path. Because mirrors (at least as a general rule) don't provide that clue, I don't wear one while demoing such maneuvers and I require students to turn & look when they perform the maneuvers.
The best thing that happened to me this weekend was losing my mirror... ;)
It fell of my helmet while I was walking around Best Buy or something - if I feel like spending $10-15, I'll snag another one.
I have a situation almost exactly like Hawkear's on my commute home. Me going uphill at about 10 mph, and the cars going around 45. I stay pretty far to the right. Most cars pass me in my lane or by barely crossing into the next lane. I have been riding it this way for over 10 years, and no one has honked or yelled at me there. Some drivers have followed me slowly, waiting until there is no one in the next lane, then changed lanes to pass me. These people probably can't judge distances very well and are just being overly cautious. Under the circumstances, I think for me to take up the whole lane would be inconsiderate to the drivers and would not make me feel or actually be any safer.
edit: I never use a mirror.
On twisty, steep mountain roads, you don't have too many options. But we still have a lot of cars in a hurry :) Sometimes I play "lookout" for cars, and wave them around when the lane is wide enough for me to get to the right and I don't see any oncoming traffic.
I use a mirror though. Does that make me naughty?
I use a mirror though. Does that make me naughty?Very naughty. FYI: mirror discipline is usually administered with the dreaded cat o' nine tubes :eek: Just pray that they'll leave the caps on the presta valves :D
Well, at least I have a helmet. Though I think some consider that naughty too :)
I have a situation where there are a pair of underpasses. The curb lanes on the road are wider to accomodate cyclists, except in certain situations - such as bridges, etc. Generally one can ride about 2ft away from the curb, and passing cars are at least 2ft away. The only vehicles I have had a problem with are tractor trailers (very rare) and city vehicles towing equipment where the trailer is wider than the towing vehicle (I wonder if that is illegal - perhaps it should be). In any case, when I get to the underpass I look back, signal left, take the lane, and crank it. Since the underpass starts as a downgrade, I can usually bring it up to about 40 kmh - about 10k slower than the speed limit, but not by a great deal.
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