Yield vs. Stop

[77Univega]

- - I just read this quote from a poster in General Cycling Discussion:
"Bikes in Idaho are allowed to treat a stop sign as a yield."

Well now, THERE'S a sensible idea. Seems to me that such a law is easier for the cops to enforce.
Are there any other states out there where cyclists are legally allowed to treat a stop sign as a "yield"?
Any other opinions?

[webist]

Not sure what you mean by easier for cops to enforce. Maybe their job is easier because they have less to enforce, but I don't see that particular law as any easier to enforce. Bike runs stop sign. Vehicle splatters cyclist all over the road. Bike runs yield sign. Vehicle splatters cyclist all over the road. One is failure to stop. The other is failure to yeild.

Stopping might be defined as coming to walking speed (3 mph or less). That however, would be an enforcement nightmare.

[bikeboy]

Indeed, Idaho law allows cyclists to yield, rather than stop, at a stop sign. (As another poster stated... beware. The stakes can be very high if you fail to yield.)

Effective July 1, a newly-enacted law goes into effect in Idaho. Traffic SIGNALS (lights) must be honored by cyclists, but once they come to a complete stop, they can proceed cautiously after yielding to any right-of-way traffic. (Passed in response to complaints about signals that are triggered by ground loops, that are not sensitive enough to detect a bicycle.)

I will continue to stop at all stop lights, and if motor vehicles are waiting with me for the light to change, I'll happily wait with 'em. The last thing I want is to be sharing the road with angry, resentful motorists, when I'm on my 25-pound bicycle.

[highspeedcycle]

Will they really enforce stop signs on cycleists? what will they do if they see me running them? i was riding tonight probley going 20mph(i guess), saw a stop sign and saw the road and no one was coming so i just nailed thru it, i did this a few times today. also stop lights if someones thier waiting for me when they got green, i NEVER go. But if its red and thiers no one on the street i might nail thru it.

[77Univega]

[QUOTE... i was riding tonight probley going 20mph(i guess), saw a stop sign and saw the road and no one was coming so i just nailed thru it, i did this a few times today. also stop lights if someones thier waiting for me when they got green, i NEVER go. But if its red and thiers no one on the street i might nail thru it.[/QUOTE]


- - I, for one, resist the temptation to "nail" through stop signs and stop lights. It is not only dangerous but sets a BAD EXAMPLE to kids; that's the main thing. Also, that habit gives certain motorists another excuse to trash cyclists. It is up to me to create a positive cyclist image on the road.

"...Bike runs yield sign. Vehicle splatters cyclist all over the road..." Amen webist.

If California ever changes the law to be like Idaho's, the cops don't have to dicker whether I came to a full stop. But if I "blow through" the stop/yield sign, then they've got me and I can't complain.

.

[77Univega]

.
- - OK folks here it is, the official law. I have emboldened the relevant text. Does any other state have similar laws for bicycles?

============================
Idaho Statutes TITLE 49 MOTOR VEHICLES
CHAPTER 7
PEDESTRIANS AND BICYCLES

49-720. STOPPING -- TURN AND STOP SIGNALS. (1) A person operating a
bicycle or human-powered vehicle approaching a stop sign shall slow down and,
if required for safety, stop before entering the intersection. After slowing
to a reasonable speed or stopping, the person shall yield the right-of-way to
any vehicle in the intersection or approaching on another highway so closely
as to constitute an immediate hazard during the time the person is moving
across or within the intersection or junction of highways, except that a
person after slowing to a reasonable speed and yielding the right-of-way if
required, may cautiously make a turn or proceed through the intersection
without stopping.


(2) A person operating a bicycle or human-powered vehicle approaching a
steady red traffic-control signal shall stop before entering the intersection,
except that a person after slowing to a reasonable speed and yielding the
right-of-way if required, may cautiously make a right-hand turn without
stopping or may cautiously make a left-hand turn onto a one-way highway
without stopping.

[bikeboy]

- - I, for one, resist the temptation to "nail" through stop signs and stop lights. It is not only dangerous but sets a BAD EXAMPLE to kids; that's the main thing. Also, that habit gives certain motorists another excuse to trash cyclists. It is up to me to create a positive cyclist image on the road.
.

RIGHT ON! A hearty "amen" to that!

Is it any wonder that motorists resent cyclists? Criminy - when I'm driving a motor vehicle (ever so occasionally), and see some bike-bonehead blasting through red lights, or riding against traffic, or weaving in and out, I totally resent it! They are ruining MY reputation with their behavior, because we all tend to stereotype, whether it's "idiots on bikes" or "soccer-mom cell-phone SUV idiots." I try to do everything I can when I'm riding to make motorists NOT resent my presence on the road, and to cooperate with me.

[John E]

When cycling, I don't always obey the letter of the law, but I do obey the spirit of the law. At a stop sign, I always yield the right-of-way to whomever has it, or CAUTIOUSLY assertively take the right-of-way if it is mine. Blowing through a stop sign at 10mph / 15kph (or faster) does NOT fit this paradigm, but gently rolling through at walking speed sometimes does.

I wait for a red light to change to green if I am reasonably sanguine that either my bicycle or a motor vehicle in my lane can trigger it, or if I am on the dominant street, for which "green" is the default state. However, if I am on a side street and know I cannot trigger this particular signal, then I do treat it as a stop sign and proceed when traffic permits, realizing that I do not have the right-of-way in this instance.

[ofofhy]

.(2) A person operating a bicycle or human-powered vehicle approaching a
steady red traffic-control signal shall stop before entering the intersection,
except that a person after slowing to a reasonable speed and yielding the
right-of-way if required, may cautiously make a right-hand turn without
stopping or may cautiously make a left-hand turn onto a one-way highway
without stopping.

So this allows you to treat a full red light as a yield under certain circumstances.

I think more states should have laws like this.

[Daily Commute]

Hurst's Art of Urban Cycling, in a rare break with Forester, says it's OK to treat stop signs as yield signs if you're really, really careful. I generally agree. Just make sure you slow down enough to see if anything is coming. Of course, if a cop catches you, there's no excuse (except for Idaho, I guess).

I generally treat stop signs or red lights as yield signs only when there are no cars in any direction, including behind me. I don't like to contribute to the image of cyclists as lawless.

[Helmet Head]

Hurst's Art of Urban Cycling, in a rare break with Forester, says it's OK to treat stop signs as yield signs if you're really, really careful. I generally agree..
How is that a "break with Forester"?

If you read his section on Stop Signs (pp 313-314), carefully, you will see he says basically the same thing.



The stop-sign law requires two distinct actions: first a stop and then a yield. ... The stop is made behind the crosswalk to protect pedestrians. Just like motorists, cyclists stop here if there are pedestrians, but creep over if there aren't any. Somewhere near the crosswalk line you can start to see both pedestrian and vehicular traffic approaching on the arterial... The moment you can confirm that you will not affect traffic approaching on the arterial, you can go. ... You don't have to stop to yield, and you are best able to get moving again if you are still riding, with your feet on the pedals.

If you read what he says carefully, no absolute stop is required when no pedestrians are present, and if it's not required to yield to approaching traffic.

Effective Cycling is a dense work. You can miss a lot of what he says if you don't read it very carefully.

The breaking up of the STOP action into two parts: the stop for pedestrians and the yield for vehicular traffic, helps explain how stop signs should be treated with clarity that I have not encountered anywhere else. In contrast, look at what the CA driver's manual says:



Eight-sided red STOP signs mean you must make a full stop whenever you see a STOP sign. Stop before entering a crosswalk or at a white “limit line” which is a wide white line painted on the street. If a crosswalk or limit line is not painted on the street, stop at the corner.

The fact that you still have to yield to cross traffic (unless they too have a stop sign) is not even mentioned. The fact that you can creep forward after stopping at the limit line is also not mentioned.

[highspeedcycle]

i dont like going in front of cars at stop signs or red lights thow. But i don't mind going on red if i'm sure noone will hit me

[77Univega]

.

- - Are there any POLICE out there on these Bike Forums who have an opinion about Idaho's bicycle laws?

[lamajo25]

I'll just say safety first. I'm not sure what the terrain is like in Idaho but to have a law like that they would have to just about have flat land. If there is obviously nobody coming and you can tell because you can see far enough down the road. If it says okay it's okay. Don't take the chance too much though.

[Dchiefransom]

So this allows you to treat a full red light as a yield under certain circumstances.

I think more states should have laws like this.


Before this, Idaho's laws let cyclists treat stop lights as stop signs.
What's interesting on this forum is the number of times we promote the laws in Europe, like in Holland and Denmark, but then when someone visits over there, we learn that all the cyclists follow the laws to the letter.

[Dchiefransom]

I'll just say safety first. I'm not sure what the terrain is like in Idaho but to have a law like that they would have to just about have flat land. If there is obviously nobody coming and you can tell because you can see far enough down the road. If it says okay it's okay. Don't take the chance too much though.

It's a mix of mountains and high desert, so they have a lot of flat land.