You are on a regular city street at a controlled intersection. You need to make a left turn. This one has left turn lanes that require you to wait for a green arrow to turn left. You get into the left turn lane behind a window-less van which is the first car waiting in the cue.

From your experience you know that this light isn't triggered by bicycles. So you know that this light doesn't see that you are there. There are no cars behind you. There is only one car waiting at this light--the window-less van in front of you. From your experience you know that the light will turn red before the van is through the light. You are not visible to on-coming traffic because you are behind this big van, and you won't be visible to on-coming traffic until that van has gotten a little more than half way through the light. By this time, the light will have turned red and all that on-coming rush-hour traffic that has been battling it out all evening will be itching to go on their green light.

What should you do?

The vehicular purists would say to wait your turn, probably thereby missing the next green cycle. The other option is to be obnoxious and to position yourself in the crosswalk, at the van's right-front corner, preferably making eye contact with the driver first. If you do resort to this, swing wide when making the turn and encourage the van driver to overtake you on your left, so that you are not obstructing him/her.

I really don't have a good solution, and I have frequently found myself in a similar situation, waiting for a VERY short green arrow.

I like this game! I doubt the windowless van can cross the intersection so fast that I can't stay sucked up close enough to it to be as safe as it it. Damn that was a poor sentence. I just make sure that I can haul ass and stay with the van. I may even cut inside of it going through the turn once I am sure it's not making a u-turn, to keep it between me and oncoming traffic. If there's a green light, unless there's a Ferrari waiting to jump it, I can make it through the intersection before I'm in danger.

I lean toward's John E's way of thinking. I am always more comfortable having someone next to me as protection against traffic coming from the left even though they have the red light. I do the same at a couple intersections that cross a highway. I pull up to the right of the first car and look for an acknowledgment that they see me, when the light is about to turn green I will look again to make sure they see me, and I will start off just ahead of them giving them a wide berth to my left side. I can't control traffic running the light from the left if I am next to a van or truck, but I can see before I get to the median whether or not the traffic from the right is stopping or about to turn right on red and adjust accordingly.

I have to say, typically around here the sensors are based on a "time" factor and don't count or adjust to the number of vehicles in the lane. NOR do they recognize bikes! ;-(

AND Last but not least, don't pull up right behind the van, pull of to one of the sides if not next to him where you can get eye contact. Chances are better he will see you in his mirror. I have a conversion van and the rear view mirror is essentially useless. I am very dependent on the side view mirros, and you'd be surprised how effective they are at seeing anything but a bicycle or a motor cycle right on the bumper towards the middle in the rear.

It's a protected green left turn arrow, right? How long does it stay green? How long does it stay orange? How long after it goes red does the light for oncoming traffic go green?

Regardless of your answers, I find it hard to believe that it turns orange within the time that the van enters the intersection and when you get past the stop line. If it turns orange before you get to the stop line, then, yes, you are supposed to stop. But that would mean it stays green for all of 1-2 seconds. I've never seen a light with such a short green cycle. Is that the case here? If so, you have to wait. If the light won't trigger for you, then treat it like a stop sign and proceed when there is gap.

If you do get into the intersection while the light is still green, are you saying you cannot complete the turn during the orange cycle? But you should at least be perpendicular to the flow of oncoming traffic by the time it turns green for them, and so you should be out of the blind spot behind the van. Just keep on pedaling!

I guess you've never been to Santa Barbara. We've got a few lights that flash green-ornage-red so fast if you blink you'll miss it. I usually just go, but sometimes, like if I'm behind a big van, it's a little scary. Especially since this particular corner has a lot of liquor stores and people jonesing for some smokes or a 12-pack.

A light that only allows one car through on the green is seriously flawed. It might be worth trying to get it changed to give at least a few more seconds.

In the meantime I'd do like twahl: Use the van as a shield. Pull up just behind and to the left of the van so at least the driver has the opportunity to see you. When the light changes follow the van through close enough that oncoming cars, if any, will give way to you by proxy (they're actually giving way to the van). Take a slightly more inside line than the van, but don't get beside it.

- - I agree with "...haul ass and stay with the van..."

It's legal in California for you to split the lane on the right of the left turning van. The previous poster is right That you can pull up to the front right of the van, and swing wide on the left turn. I usually ride the rear bumper of the van as it turns, keeping near the right edge in case it does something so I can swing out.
I have a light like that near the coffee shop I visit when I drive to work. The light only senses one vehicle, and turns yellow before I'm halfway across the inersection.

Simple, pull up to the right of the van so you can see the light when it changes. Hang back a little and go wide through the turn in case the van driver makes a wide turn or does a right turn into the corner store immediately after the left.

RFM

I agree with using the van as a blocker. I do this from time to time with other vehicles and it works. There are several ways to do it, but I recommend staying to his outside through the turn, then dropping behind as the turn is completed. The main thing to watch for is him turning the opposite way, into a driveway or street, as soon as he completes the turn you used him for a blocker on. In that case you'll probably have to hit the brakes and take the lane, crossing behind him to pass.

I'd either split the lane and ride to the right of the van, or I'd move left alongside the van, dismount, and cross left as a pedestrian (which would then require crossing the cross street). Which I'd choose probably depends on traffic density... I don't want to get pushed out to the right into parked cars or other traffic if the van swings his turn too wide.

I'd position myself so I am visible and more importantly can see opposing traffic. Maybe to the right if the sight lines work best for that intersection, especially while completing the turn - I'd have to try the specific intersection to know.
Then go right when the van does. Keep close and remember it is fine to be in the intersection when the light is yellow.
Also does the inductive sensor get triggered by your bike? If it does than you should be able to trigger is while behind the van so the intersection computer gives a longer light as it knows two vehicles are present. If it doesn't get triggered by your bike than speak to traffic engineering dept. and get it tuned. If the sensor is only one car deep then there are more serious design problems with the intersection, what if there is a line of four cars?

Al

I'm with John E on this too... and in fact I go one further that undoubtedly would be difficult on a 'bend.

I come up beside the vehicle on their right side, get the driver's attention... and indicate that I am turning left... not with the traditional left turn signal, but by pointing to myself, and then to my destination... I do this until the driver nods in agreement.** I then take off at the change of the light usually with the vehicle slowing coming along right behind/beside me, just to my left... acting as my "shield." I peel off to the WOL or BL as I complete the turn.

Getting the driver's attention and working with them gets them fully involved. They have no doubt as to my goals.


** there have been rare occasions where the driver must have been braindead or something and actually had to roll down the window to ask "whaaat?"

A light that only allows one car through on the green is seriously flawed. It might be worth trying to get it changed to give at least a few more seconds.

In the meantime I'd do like twahl: Use the van as a shield. Pull up just behind and to the left of the van so at least the driver has the opportunity to see you. When the light changes follow the van through close enough that oncoming cars, if any, will give way to you by proxy (they're actually giving way to the van). Take a slightly more inside line than the van, but don't get beside it.

This is what I do on the rare occasion I encounter this scenario.

Getting the driver's attention and working with them gets them fully involved. They have no doubt as to my goals.


** there have been rare occasions where the driver must have been braindead or something and actually had to roll down the window to ask "whaaat?"

Very well said Genec. It also serves to train them there are more than recreational cyclists on the roads they share. I am pretty lucky so far at avoiding the braindead ones though!!

Very well said Genec. It also serves to train them there are more than recreational cyclists on the roads they share. I am pretty lucky so far at avoiding the braindead ones though!!

No doubt the rare ones don't do well at "charades" either... :rolleyes:

The vehicular purists would say to wait your turn, probably thereby missing the next green cycle. The other option is to be obnoxious and to position yourself in the crosswalk, at the van's right-front corner, preferably making eye contact with the driver first. If you do resort to this, swing wide when making the turn and encourage the van driver to overtake you on your left, so that you are not obstructing him/her.

I really don't have a good solution, and I have frequently found myself in a similar situation, waiting for a VERY short green arrow.

That's my technique, unless I opt to stay on the right and make two crossings.

Thank you for your responses. I realized the other day while I was waiting behind the van in the center of the lane that since nobody else was going to come up behind me the signal wasn't going to last long enough for me, and being behind the van was pretty stupid. Sometimes the center is less safe. It would be better to be to the side. I prefer to take the right side. Yes, the light is a bad one. One of many like that.

Today at this intersection I was first and the only one. I had to wait through 1.5 cycles before I got a green arrow. I might have treated the light as malfuntioning and just gone when the coast was clear, but by then some cars were behind me and I knew the light would trigger the next time. I didn't think it would look good to go when they couldn't.

Thank you for your responses. I realized the other day while I was waiting behind the van in the center of the lane that since nobody else was going to come up behind me the signal wasn't going to last long enough for me, and being behind the van was pretty stupid. Sometimes the center is less safe. It would be better to be to the side. I prefer to take the right side. Yes, the light is a bad one. One of many like that.

Today at this intersection I was first and the only one. I had to wait through 1.5 cycles before I got a green arrow. I might have treated the light as malfuntioning and just gone when the coast was clear, but by then some cars were behind me and I knew the light would trigger the next time. I didn't think it would look good to go when they couldn't.
That happened to me yesterday morning. In fact, I did start going (green in my direction, but no green left arrow, no oncoming traffic) before I realized there was a car coming up behind me on my left (this is a double left-turn lane). I stopped and backed up!

The robot may be broken but the CPU is still functioning! What's wrong with walking in the crosswalk? Sounds purty safe to me! Be careful out there! Thank God you don't ride in this town!!!!!

Thank you for your responses. I realized the other day while I was waiting behind the van in the center of the lane that since nobody else was going to come up behind me the signal wasn't going to last long enough for me, and being behind the van was pretty stupid. Sometimes the center is less safe. It would be better to be to the side. I prefer to take the right side. Yes, the light is a bad one. One of many like that.

Today at this intersection I was first and the only one. I had to wait through 1.5 cycles before I got a green arrow. I might have treated the light as malfuntioning and just gone when the coast was clear, but by then some cars were behind me and I knew the light would trigger the next time. I didn't think it would look good to go when they couldn't.


http://www.greenlightstuff.com/trigger.html

I might have treated the light as malfuntioning ...
Have you tried to contact the city to get the sensor re-tuned? It is definitely worth a try, I know that several cities here in AZ are very responsive to such requests.

Al

But that would mean it stays green for all of 1-2 seconds. I've never seen a light with such a short green cycle. Is that the case here? If so, you have to wait. If the light won't trigger for you, then treat it like a stop sign and proceed when there is gap. If you do get into the intersection while the light is still green, are you saying you cannot complete the turn during the orange cycle? But you should at least be perpendicular to the flow of oncoming traffic by the time it turns green for them, and so you should be out of the blind spot behind the van. Just keep on pedaling!

Then you've never been to Des Moines, Iowa. Because that is how long the protected green left turn arrows last, all of 1 to 2 seconds. They have an idiot in their city government who makes these decisions when it comes to the traffic control devices. It has caused more accidents then I care to count & pisses off motorists, especially during rush hour. Oh and I don't know about where you live serge, but every place I've ridden bike the light goes from green to yellow or amber, then to red. There is no orange. But hey if it is orange in your area of the world, thats cool man.

As far as I know if you can make into the intersection while the light is still green you have the right of way & the oncoming traffic will have to wait until you're clear before they can proceed. As long as you be seen by the oncoming traffic though. If in doubt as to whether or not you will be seen by oncoming traffic I would wait. Better safe then sorry.

Here in Sioux City we do not have protected green arrows that only last 1 or 2 seconds but we do have a few that are shorter then others & they start to turn to yellow then red before I can clear the intersection while riding. There have been times where I was behind a vehicle & I knew oncoming traffic would not be able to see me until it was to late. When this happens if there is no traffic behind me I wait until the next light. By then there is traffic behind me that will trigger the green arrow. If there is traffic behind me I ride through. The oncoming traffic sees the cars behind me, before they see me & wait until we all clear the intersection before proceeding even if they have the green light. I sort of use the traffic behind me as a shield or guard in a way.

There is another option if you see this situation setting up - Get in the right lane and turn right - Go down a short distance, make a U-turn and then as you come back to the traffic light, go straight across the intersection on green. I am finding this works well for me on divided highways with left turn Lanes when cars must also make U-turns to go the other direction.
Good Luck
Rick