Bicycle Mechanics - Rant - Why not lend a hand?

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View Full Version : Rant - Why not lend a hand?


Mr_Super_Socks
04-07-05, 09:19 AM
OK - so maybe I will be flamed by bike shop owners for this post, but I need to vent.

On my way to work this morning, I notice a skipping in the rear der. As the cogs (in my head) turn, I think to look closely at my chain. Turns out, a link is half separating. I think, "crap", but cool, there's a bike shop right up here. I'll ask to borrow their chain tool and be on my merry way. I have been wanting to go in there for a while now, but it's never open when I ride by (i ride early AM and usually latePM).

This is my chance to check it out and say hello to the mechanic, right? wrong. I asked if I could borrow a chain tool for my bike (pointing to my bike at the entrance of the shop). He hesisates, so I say, "would you mind, terribly?" I was taken aback when he looked me in the eye and said, "actually I would. I can't lend you a chain tool."

I say, "then can I buy one?" He says, "sure, $10." I am upset and a little mystified, but recognize they are his friggin tools and if he wants to be a weenie, he's entitled. So I look and have no cash. when I put my card on the counter he refuses, saying "$20 minimum on credit cards." He then asks how much $ I have and when I say $7, he pulls out a true pos chain tool and hands it to me. With no real choice, I take the tool and make the repair as he walks to the back of ths store, talking about how if he lent two tools to every customer that walked in, he'd be out of tools in a week and what if people break them and so forth. I think to myself, you don't need to justify this to me, pal. I leave the tool on the counter and shout, "thanks for nothing. enjoy the seven bucks."

It's not like I asked to borrow a $300 facing tool. it was a friggin chain tool that I needed while in the store. Please let me know if my anger is unjustified, but I seriously can't understand why a bike shop wouldn't lend me a chain tool for 2 mins. This was a place I might have spent lots of $ if not for this experience.


neil0502
04-07-05, 09:26 AM
He could have helped you out, sure, but that, IMHO, would have been a more noteworthy post.

Rule #173 in life: mechanics make their living with their tools. They don't typically lend them out.

LordOpie
04-07-05, 09:28 AM
What an idiot. Not only for being a selfish jerk, but more importantly for passing up the opportunity to create goodwill and start establishing a relationship with a potential client.

Granted, most wrenches aren't very business savvy.


'nother
04-07-05, 09:30 AM
With my devil's advocate hat on . . . it's possible they are actually prevented by their insurance policy from letting anyone except their own mechanics use their tools. I used to work in a ski rental shop and we had that situation.

I think you might have taken it a bit too personally. It doesn't sound like he was overly rude to you.

One thing though: if you want to call someone's bluff on the credit card thing . . . they are not allowed to have a minimum, per their agreement with MasterCard/Visa and probably others. Many small-time shop owners impose a minimum because they get charged for every transaction and they don't want to eat that on small amounts. Sometimes you can threaten to report them and they'll drop their minimum.

Trogon
04-07-05, 09:46 AM
And yet we wonder over and over again why LBSs are struggling to stay in business.

If I'd been that guy, I would've asked what the problem was and said, "bring it over here and I'll fix it up for you." And I doubt I would've charged you. That I suppose would've created a customer for life, instead, he and his ilk get trashed once again here on the 'net. Do us a favor and post the name of the bike store. And, you ought to share your thoughts with the business owner.

I did this very thing the other day for some kid whose chain had broken. He was walking 6 miles back to his car. I stopped, took his rusty/greasy POS chain and put it back together for him. It's the right thing to do for people who share this hobby, and especially so if you work in customer service.

LBSs think the internet is killing them? Well maybe so, but rotten customer service and incompetent mechanics are taking their toll too.

Mr_Super_Socks
04-07-05, 09:47 AM
I guess I would have felt differently if he said his insurance prevented it. It still seems a little crass not to make an exception.

~~~ wavy dream thingies ~~~ If this were Little House on the Prairie (with bikes!!) he would have said. "Aw, geez, son, I am so sorry. Ma insurance cumpny just won't allow it. But heck, I ain't too busy. why don't I fix it right up for ya!?" Then I say, "that's great, how much do I owe you?" (with my seven bucks in hand.) He says, "just come on back and buy yer kid's first bike from me!" end wavy dream thingies ~~~~~

In this imaginary scenario, he would have heard through the grapevine that I just had a baby. and Im already shopping for bikes. he wasn't apparently doing anything when I showed up.


With my devil's advocate hat on . . . it's possible they are actually prevented by their insurance policy from letting anyone except their own mechanics use their tools. I used to work in a ski rental shop and we had that situation.

I think you might have taken it a bit too personally. It doesn't sound like he was overly rude to you.

One thing though: if you want to call someone's bluff on the credit card thing . . . they are not allowed to have a minimum, per their agreement with MasterCard/Visa and probably others. Many small-time shop owners impose a minimum because they get charged for every transaction and they don't want to eat that on small amounts. Sometimes you can threaten to report them and they'll drop their minimum.

Mr_Super_Socks
04-07-05, 09:49 AM
apparently Trogon lives in my magical Little House on the Prairie (with bikes!) world. bless you and your kind!

jo5iah
04-07-05, 10:00 AM
Trogon's little house on the prairie could also be my LBS, Recycled Cycles (http://www.recycledcycles.com). They've fixed things (and shown me how) a number of times. I'll ask how much for a fix, and they'll say something to the effect of "Gimme a hard one next time". And for that, I'll buy things there that I know I could get cheaper online.

phidauex
04-07-05, 10:09 AM
This sort of thing is EXACTLY why LBSs are having trouble.

Brick and mortar stores can't win on pricing, they can't win on selection, they can't win on speed. In fact, the only thing they win on is SERVICE, helping the customer out, which is something nashbar can't do.

I can understand why you might not want to lend out tools, but for something as simple as a chain tool, it doesn't seem like such a big deal, since it was going to be used in-store and everything. But even if the guy couldn't/wouldn't lend the tool, most nice mechanics would just walk over, take a look, and pop the rivet back into place. Of course, if the damage was more than 12 seconds worth, they could let the person know what it would cost to fix.

That would be a service that only an LBS could provide, which would help bring them business. If I'm not going to get good service from an LBS, why would I pay more to shop there?

Case in point: Yesterday I put all new cables and housings on my bike, and while I was at the successful local LBS getting them, I asked one of the mechanics for some advice concerning my worn chainrings. He took a look at it, took it for a test ride around the block, put it up on a stand and got a second opinion from another mechanic (and its not like they were all just sitting around with nothing to do, most of the racks were full of bikes being serviced), and gave me a detailed answer, that interestingly didn't involve me buying anything that day. He basically told me everything was fine and that I should wait before replacing it. But what looks like a dumb decision at first, him spending 20 minutes helping me only to tell me not to buy anything, is the reason I shop there at all. I wouldn't be there for housings, I wouldn't come back for a chain, and I wouldn't buy my tools there, if they didn't take the time to help their customers.

Anyway, I say screw those jerks, and find a different LBS to patronize (though in your case, it was just an unlucky coincidence that you ended up in front of that one).

peace,
sam

Retro Grouch
04-07-05, 10:13 AM
When I owned my own shop, I would have loaned you the tool assuming, of course, that you approached me in a reasonably friendly manner. That kind of thing happened occassionally, but not often enough to make a big deal out of it. I certainly never lost a tool that way. On the other hand, I can't see that it ever helped my business either. Gratitude won't pay the light bill.

If I had it to do over again, I'd still lend a chain tool to a person in your situation just because I think that it's the right thing to do. I can understand, however, why some other shop guys might not want to.

Peek the Geek
04-07-05, 10:20 AM
Okay, picture this scenario. You bring your kid into a barber shop. You ask the barber, "Hey, you mind if I borrow your scissors for a couple minutes? I need to give my kid a trim."

On the other hand, for something as minor as pushing a pin back in, the guy could've done it himself as a gesture of goodwill (and, as others have said, to earn a new customer).

amahana1
04-07-05, 10:26 AM
Its not just the lending the tool problem here. The guy refused to lend a tool, okay, maybee hes over protective of his tools, I know I am, or maybe his "insurance" wont let him lend a chain tool out, those things have been known to cause major tissue damage should they come loose during use (major rolling of the eyes). BUT, not to just slap the tool on there himself and fix it! Give me a friggin break, and then to say "20 dollar minimum on credit card purchases" when you just need two mins worth of attention. Some LBS' never cease to amaze me!

Trogon
04-07-05, 10:28 AM
Nope, I live in the real world where people should help out when they can. Sometimes what goes around comes around. ;)

amahana1
04-07-05, 10:35 AM
Its like a neighbour comming over asking for a jump because he left his car lights on all night and me telling him, "well John the thing is for health insurance reasons I cant help you, the risk on this kind of thing is just tooo great. Oh you want to just BORROW my cables then....oh sorry again John, they are a really nice set and I want to keep them clean...BUT I do have a set of older ones I am willing to sell you. OH, you want to pay with a check, well I need to warn you John I AMM gonna have to raise the price a little, you know in case your check doesnt clear. Oh and have a GREAT day John".......

LordOpie
04-07-05, 10:42 AM
Okay, picture this scenario. You bring your kid into a barber shop. You ask the barber, "Hey, you mind if I borrow your scissors for a couple minutes? I need to give my kid a trim."
Hmm, nope. That analogy doesn't come close.

jnbacon
04-07-05, 10:45 AM
The other day, I needed a bit of extra chain added to my chain. I asked the mechanic at the LBS if I could buy it, and he just gave it to me. He then told me that if he put on himself, he would have to charge me labor but he would loan me the chain tool if I wanted to do it in the store. I said no, I have one at home. We then proceeded to have a good conversation about fixies and my bike and other people's bikes, and I left happy.

I returned to the store the other day to see if I could get a chainring. No, they would have to order it. Now, I knew that I could get what I want cheaper online, but I ordered it anyway because I like them. I don't think a store like that is all about money. It's much more about community, and the loan of a tool and some simple interest in my problem is about building community. That's not every wrench's duty or anything, but it would seem a good business attitude.

Waldo
04-07-05, 10:45 AM
Just to offer an opposing point of view for a moment, we then return you to your regularly scheduled LBS bashing...
I've had a customer break the pin on a chain tool. Not exactly a huge expense, but perhaps hence his reluctance. If that happened, I'd just ask for the buck or so for the pin. Someone comes in like that and I'll just do it for them.
In today's litigious society, you loan a guy the tool, then the chain breaks on the ride, resulting in a close encounter of the painful kind with the top tube and his wife leaving because his boys weren't doing their thing anymore...then the wrench/shop gets sued for not properly overseeing the repair/knowing the customer was not fully competent (not getting personal here, just trying to think like a lawyer)/having a tool that was not up to snuff, etc.
I'm just offering up possible reasons for his actions. Perhaps he is just a moron or you caught the guy at a bad time. All are inexcusable; like I said, I'd just do it for you. Rather than complaining about it on the internet, though, why not discuss the issue with the owner-at least something productive might come out of that. Go up to him, smack him in the face with a riding glove, and say "I demand satisfaction." See what that gets you.

ImprezaDrvr
04-07-05, 10:47 AM
Number one, if you had your bike in shop, the only thing that I can imagine stopped him was an overzealous boss and an insurance policy. I had both, and we got yelled at like crazy if we lent out tools. Second point- lending out tools means tools get stolen. Plain and simple. You're a good guy, but they don't know that yet. And letting a customer use a chain tool does open them up to a lot of liability if said customer is one that thinks he or she knows what he or she is doing when, in fact, they've never seen a chain tool before. He or she "fixes" the chain, which separates and causes a crash. He or she then sues the crap out of the LBS that the tool was borrowed from.

All of that said, why the guy didn't take a minute to help you out is beyond me. Not like it's something incredibly involved, unless again it's an issue of liability. But still, not like he's going to document the repair. Big city life, I guess. I borrow tools from my LBS in Gallup all the time.

amahana1
04-07-05, 10:50 AM
Go up to him, smack him in the face with a riding glove, and say "I demand satisfaction." See what that gets you.

Yeah, that will work. :D

Peek the Geek
04-07-05, 10:52 AM
Hmm, nope. That analogy doesn't come close.

No? Why?

Waldo
04-07-05, 10:57 AM
Yeah, that will work. :D
Hey, if it works on the Simpsons, right? Of course, someone eventually agreed to dual...

neil0502
04-07-05, 10:57 AM
Yeah, that will work. :D

But the point is very valid. Unless the OP is swimming in excellent LBS's and this was the exception, I think it's always a good idea to go back to (the wrench first) and say, "What gives?" If his reasons don't cut it, I'd discuss what happened with the manager/owner.

The hope here is that--even though the OP got the shaft (didn't borrow it; just got it)--maybe the shop will do business differently for the next cyclist in need.

It does get a bit old (no offense, OP) when people come on BF and LBS-bash without having discussed the issue with the LBS first. Bashing and boycotting won't make things better for the rest of us. Reasoned discussions with the people in a position to change policies and practices might.

Good luck!

markhr
04-07-05, 11:05 AM
I know what you mean.

Good store (http://www.condorcycles.com/pages/about.htm) - loan tools for the customers. The tools are beat but still do the job just not well enough for constant use by the mechs. The mechs will n not give advice on fixing the bike themselves as that undercuts them but everyone else is more than helpful. Although, standing in the checkout queue watching a 35+ year old guy with a £3000 bike ask for a tube change because he's never done it...you gotta laugh.

bad store (http://www.mosquito-bikes.co.uk/) - as bad as yours. edit - no this isn't a just one time poor service so I'm p*ssed comment. Consistently POOR service every time I've been in there. The last time was an emergency and, yeah, that was the final straw.

Surely service is part and parcel of running a successful business or is that wishful thinking.

supcom
04-07-05, 11:06 AM
You expect the mechanic to lend you his tools so you can avoid paying him to make a repair? Why not establish a little goodwill of your own and pay him to fix/replace your chain? It wouldn't cost very much and that why he's in business.

I don't blame the guy for not lending you the tool. He had to buy it and it relies on it to make his living. He doesn't even know you.

I have to side with the LBS here.

darkmother
04-07-05, 11:06 AM
Many bike store owners need to learn how to manage their staff more effectively. Bike shops have to be service oriented to survive-otherwise you might as well by everything online, and cut out the middle man. Many shops out there just aren't getting the message. Most of the local bike shop employees around here display the same poor business attitude, so I don't shop there, period. A couple of shops have been consistantly helpful. They get my business, repeatedly, even if their location is inconvenient.

amahana1
04-07-05, 11:09 AM
Um it was tounge in cheek! I totally agree with going in and talking it out with the guy or the shop owner. I have had several bone head experiences with LBS' around where I live and have solved the majority of the issues by going in and just talking to them. Usually, I end up getting better service than ever and even made a couple friends out of them.

powers2b
04-07-05, 11:24 AM
Too bad there wasn't a X-Mart nearby, you could have gotten that same cheapo tool and a hot pretzel for $7 and used your card.

Enjoy

LordOpie
04-07-05, 11:28 AM
Where's a Dollar Store when you need one?!

;)

:D

manboy
04-07-05, 11:36 AM
Hmm...

"Is there a Ralph's anywhere around here?"

Rev.Chuck
04-07-05, 12:10 PM
I would have reccomended replaceing the popping apart link with a quick link and charged you two bucks for the link, no labor. Or if you did not want to spend the two dollars, hand you the tool with a reminder that the pin doesn't just pop out for no reason and it is likely to happen again.

If you did not have the cash and wanted to buy the nicer chain tool, i would have let you have and come back to pay later. I have not yet had a person fail to come back, even tho it was often someone I have never seen and the item was a tube or presta adaptor.

I have loaned out tools, the shops tools. I do not loan my personal stuff out. We have never had any loaned tools stolen but we have had quite a few tools damaged.

The min. for processing the card is crap, the only time we really get burned is debit cards for very inexspensive items, and people do use a debit card to buy a handful of ball bearings. Last time I looked the fee was 35 cents. two to three percent for credit cards depending on the card.

My rant: Customers that want me to pump up their road tires for them. They stop in ask if they can air up the tires, then hand me the bike and walk off. i provide the pump, you provide the muscle. I get enough practice at tire pumping already.

colinm
04-07-05, 12:35 PM
Siding with the LBS.

Of course, if he'd have said "Five bucks?" I'da said OK, and you would have, too, I think.

I use the air pressure guage at the gas station, but asking for the ratchet set is tacky. Present the problem, let the mech offer a solution that strikes him first. Don't like it, go over his head.

bicimechanic
04-07-05, 12:42 PM
"My rant: Customers that want me to pump up their road tires for them. They stop in ask if they can air up the tires, then hand me the bike and walk off. i provide the pump, you provide the muscle. I get enough practice at tire pumping already."

I second that one Rev! The Arizona Ironman is here this weekend and boy are my arms tired...

monogodo
04-07-05, 01:11 PM
In all of my retail/service experience, I've operated with the attitude that charging for little stuff costs more than just giving it away. If I had been the mechanic, I wouldn't have loaned the tool, but would have fixed it at no charge (if it was truly a simple repair). I've worked in copy shops for over 12 years now, and pretty much won't charge for anything less than 10 copies. It's not worth my time and loss of productivity to stop what I'm doing and go ring them up. Plus I gain a customer. Sure, some will take advantage and come in and make copies <10 at a time and get them for free, but the vast majority remember that I gave them something free and come back and spend money.

Of course, the mechanic may have had a bad experience and loaned out a tool that got stolen. I've loaned out items to coworkers who then sub-loaned them to customers who walked off with them. I no longer loan anything. Even something as cheap as a pen.

Ziemas
04-07-05, 01:36 PM
While I side with the LBS in not loaning out tools the wrench sounds like a jerk. Did he offer any other way to help you? Would you have paid him two bucks for him to fix it?

God must love jerks because he made so many of them.

'nother
04-07-05, 01:58 PM
While I side with the LBS in not loaning out tools the wrench sounds like a jerk. Did he offer any other way to help you? Would you have paid him two bucks for him to fix it?

God must love jerks because he made so many of them.
Yeah, but keep in mind that we are only hearing one side of the *actual* story, and a lot of hypothetical replies from people who know nothing of the situation beyond what the OP told us. Perhaps the LBS guy thought the OP was a jerk. Not saying he was or is one, but maybe he came across that way. Or maybe a guy in the shop 10 minutes before the OP borrowed a tool and walked off with it and the shop owner decided he'd had enough of these ungrateful roadie punks looking for freebies.

Definitely, seeking an alternative LBS for future scheduled repairs is in order, but sometimes you don't have that option . . .

Dirtbike
04-07-05, 02:09 PM
It's not like I asked to borrow a $300 facing tool. it was a friggin chain tool that I needed while in the store. Please let me know if my anger is unjustified, but I seriously can't understand why a bike shop wouldn't lend me a chain tool for 2 mins. This was a place I might have spent lots of $ if not for this experience.

Thats a bad shop. Stay away. My shop would let me use the hope facing tool. They are really cool. They will help customers with things, and even become friends with them. Find different shop.

JBar
04-07-05, 02:50 PM
My LBS guys would have had it on a work stand and fixed by the time I could explain my problem. Of course, they know me and I bought a bike from them. When I ask for advice on a problem, they just say " are you on your bike? Bring it in." I knew the guys socially, but BEFORE I bought the bike (R1000), they said "Just take it for the weekend and put your pedals on it. No pedal wrench? Here ya' go." Needless to say, I bought the bike and refer them every chance I get.

Avalanche325
04-07-05, 03:23 PM
A mechanic should never be expected to loan his tools out. I also don't see why someone is expected to work for free. If they OFFER to do it for free, fine.

You could have said that you only have $7 and asked what he could do for you? Many times, you offering to pay for something small like that is exactly what will urge the other guy to say "don't worry about it".

I agree that the minimum credit card purchase thing was crap.

DinoShepherd
04-07-05, 05:17 PM
When I was wrenching, we would do stuff like that for free. The general rule was if you were cool you could have 5 minutes of free labor once or twice a month.

We wouldn't loan tools to strangers though.

-Z

Ohio Trekker
04-07-05, 05:35 PM
At very least he could have rented you the tool, which in his pursuit of business would negate insurance liability for "loaning" as opposed to renting, and would have given him a little profit, and you the sense that this was not the place to go back and purchase anything. I'm willing to bet he was not the owner but an employee, and further if he was in fact the owner, he won't be for long with that kind of business practice!!

But let me add, I work for a real estate, company, we rent a building to a used car dealer. A neighbor stopped in and asked to use his air compressor to inflate a car tire. Guy over inflated the tire and blew it off the rim, left a bruise on his arm but nothing substantial or permanent. Guy turned around and sued, us because we owned the building, the tenant because he let him use the compressor, Sears Roebuck the manufacturer of the compressor and the manufaturer of the tire. The insurances companies settled for $10,000 a piece to get rid of the case. Guy was rewarded with $40,000 for his stupidity. We spend 1 week a year reviewing all of our insurance policies with our agent, and the average Joe has NO CLUE, what kind of claims insurance companies will settle just to save money by not having to go to court!

Who in their right mind would ever think that such a simple gesture of kindness as allowing someone to inflate their flat tire could result in such a ridiculous outcome.

midgie
04-07-05, 05:47 PM
A mechanic should never be expected to loan his tools out. I also don't see why someone is expected to work for free. If they OFFER to do it for free, fine.

You could have said that you only have $7 and asked what he could do for you? Many times, you offering to pay for something small like that is exactly what will urge the other guy to say "don't worry about it".

I agree that the minimum credit card purchase thing was crap.

I agree, and offering to pay first, probabley would have got " don't worry about it" in most shops.

Now as for me, seeing that you were in a bind would have done it for free. I honestly think the mech passed on an opportunity to build a relationship and gain a customer. And word of mouth advertising from you, on what a great LBS and mech, would have been worth my time.

genec
04-07-05, 05:52 PM
I guess I would have felt differently if he said his insurance prevented it. It still seems a little crass not to make an exception.

~~~ wavy dream thingies ~~~ If this were Little House on the Prairie (with bikes!!) he would have said. "Aw, geez, son, I am so sorry. Ma insurance cumpny just won't allow it. But heck, I ain't too busy. why don't I fix it right up for ya!?" Then I say, "that's great, how much do I owe you?" (with my seven bucks in hand.) He says, "just come on back and buy yer kid's first bike from me!" end wavy dream thingies ~~~~~

In this imaginary scenario, he would have heard through the grapevine that I just had a baby. and Im already shopping for bikes. he wasn't apparently doing anything when I showed up.


Actually happened to me the other day... so not so much a "dream sequence." Not the chain, but a stubborn tire. But same scene...

I was back the next day and bought a bike computer. What goes around comes around.

Momentum
04-08-05, 09:49 AM
I am lucky - my local shop is a workers co-op. They lend tools and pumps to pretty much everyone and are really helpful and friendly to all their customers. It works to their advantage, I go there as a first choice to buy stuff and I tell my friends to go and get their stuff there as well.

On the other hand I went into a different shop where another customer had a puncture and wanted to borrow a pump. They made him buy a pump - as a result I decided not to buy anything and tell my friends not to go there.

The shop makes their choice how to run their business and I make my choice on which shop to use. There is usually a link between these choices...

powers2b
04-08-05, 10:01 AM
I am lucky - my local shop is a workers co-op. They lend tools and pumps to pretty much everyone and are really helpful and friendly to all their customers. It works to their advantage, I go there as a first choice to buy stuff and I tell my friends to go and get their stuff there as well.


Same here.

Cheers.

I'll be in England in a few weeks please send a link to you co-op.
I would like to stop by and say hello (maybe buy a round of pints).

Heres mine:
www.ohiocitycycles.org

Enjoy

Metro
04-08-05, 10:17 AM
I purhased deraileur cables from my lbs. I happended to have the bike on a rack on the back of my car outside. I had a question about routing a cable through a hole in the tube. He came out and looked at the bike and gave me free advise. I spent $15 for cables and housings. I went home, changed out the cables and had a problem with the rear one. I brought the whole bike back the next day and asked what I was doing wrong. He showed me, allowed me to borrow his hex wrench and cable cutters. I made the final adjustment right there in his shop. no problem, no additional cost.

Find another shop where they are not so touchy about service. They are penny wise and pound foolish. You can potentially purchase thousands of dollars in assorted goods over the year, while he wants to haggle over $20? It does not make sense. Cut your losses and move on with your life.

DK Drop
04-08-05, 10:52 AM
LBS are not all that bad, I just upgraded local, just ordered it in, didn't bother to shop around for the best price. Well I thought I would check to see what kind of price I did get so Icalled around to some large distributers, and the price was bang on what it should be, no one could offer me a better price. Now I be it that I am a riding partner with the owneer, and the Mechanic, so I can pretty much drop my bike there in the morning, and it will be loaded ontop of the Mechs car that night waiting to drive out to some killer spots. Then I say " Hey don't I owe you some cash for that fix" and always get the same responce. "Where did you buy this bike? and the bike before that? and the bike before that? and the bike before that?" Of course it was with them, so he's like just keep buying bikes, and if you can break it I cn fix it. They will have me coming back till the day I die with friends, and service like that. Doesn't hurt that they are a half a block from where I work either :)

Sheldon Brown
04-08-05, 10:57 AM
On my way to work this morning, I notice a skipping in the rear der. As the cogs (in my head) turn, I think to look closely at my chain. Turns out, a link is half separating. I think, "crap", but cool, there's a bike shop right up here. I'll ask to borrow their chain tool and be on my merry way. I have been wanting to go in there for a while now, but it's never open when I ride by (i ride early AM and usually latePM).

This is my chance to check it out and say hello to the mechanic, right? wrong. I asked if I could borrow a chain tool for my bike (pointing to my bike at the entrance of the shop). He hesisates, so I say, "would you mind, terribly?" I was taken aback when he looked me in the eye and said, "actually I would. I can't lend you a chain tool."

I say, "then can I buy one?" He says, "sure, $10." I am upset and a little mystified, but recognize they are his friggin tools and if he wants to be a weenie, he's entitled. So I look and have no cash. when I put my card on the counter he refuses, saying "$20 minimum on credit cards." He then asks how much $ I have and when I say $7, he pulls out a true pos chain tool and hands it to me. With no real choice, I take the tool and make the repair as he walks to the back of ths store, talking about how if he lent two tools to every customer that walked in, he'd be out of tools in a week and what if people break them and so forth. I think to myself, you don't need to justify this to me, pal. I leave the tool on the counter and shout, "thanks for nothing. enjoy the seven bucks."

It's not like I asked to borrow a $300 facing tool. it was a friggin chain tool that I needed while in the store. Please let me know if my anger is unjustified, but I seriously can't understand why a bike shop wouldn't lend me a chain tool for 2 mins. This was a place I might have spent lots of $ if not for this experience.

I've been known to lend tools, but my chain tool is the one tool I never lend, because it is too easy to destroy one if you try to force in a rivet that isn't properly aligned with its hole. I stil have the ancient Cyclo Rivoli I bought when I was in high school more than 40 years ago, and it still hasn't been bent out of shape. (At the shop I use a modern Park shop tool, but the Rivoli remains my tool for home use.)

This is a difficult case. My first reaction was "why didn't the mechanic just fix the link?" However, on consideration, I can imagine reasons for that. Modern chains are not supposed to be joined with a chain tool, only by installing a special link (or a special pin, in the case of Shimano chains.) If the mechanic were to close up the link for you, he could be exposing himself to liability if it were to bust later on. I must admit that I join my own chains with a chain tool fairly often, and some of my personal bikes have chains pieced together from cut-offs, but I wouldn't do this on a customer's bike.

In this case, I think I would probably have sold Mr. Socks a Sram Power link for $5. If he didn't have the $5 I probably would have trusted him for it, unless he had an attitude problem.

Someone else brought up the "insurance" issue. I've never believed that story when I've heard it, I think it's just an excuse people like to use to absolve themselves of responsibility.

Sheldon "Fix It" Brown
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| A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually |
| on sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; |
| no religious basis is necessary. |
| Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be |
| restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward |
| after death. --Albert Einstein |
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Portis
04-08-05, 11:27 AM
I think your problem started when you initiated the whole sequence by asking a proprietor of a business to borrow something that he normally charges for. IOW, from his point of view he was probably figuring you were just looking for a freebie. I am sure he has seen plenty of that and has had enough.

You should have started by walking into the LBS and making it appear like you were going to need to purchase something from him to repair your chain. Then he likely would have taken the high ground and offered to do it for free.

"Hi, I am having a bad day and my chain is about ready to split in half. I only have $7 on me because i normally don't carry much cash with me on a ride. Do you have any ideas on what I can do?" Sounds much better than.......

"Hey, can i borrow your chain tool?"

12steven
04-08-05, 11:41 AM
Ive never met so many obnoxious people in any other walk of life than I have working behind a counter in bike shops. I can only think that working in a bike shop must be the most tedious job in the world and (when they're not scratching something), they seem to get great sport from venting their frustrations out on their own customers. ******** economics! As a bike messenger who's worked all over europe Ive had to deal with quite a few lbs in my time and there are some absolute diamonds out there, but the job does seem to attract alot of arrogant boneheads as well. I can only blame the owners of the shops that hire them- maybe they should employ more sophisticated interviewing techniques than just taking them out the back to see if they can build a mud-pie that wont fall over., or whatever they do.. Bike mechanics is hardly rocket science and these assistants, knowing we all love our bikes so much, get a real power buzz when they think we need them. Shock horror if you walk in there and just want to borrow his pie making moulds! You must have made the poor chap feel redundant.. pity his sorry ars

powers2b
04-08-05, 11:56 AM
Ive never met so many obnoxious people in any other walk of life than I have working behind a counter in bike shops.

Couldn't agree more.
I walked into a LBS and started asking about threadless stems. The guy acts like he can't be bothered. Then I mention that I ride with the local touring club (Bling Bling customers) and suddenly the guy is my g-dm buddy showing me stuff in the case, asking what I ride, pointing out the sale items....etc.
Whatever, I just walked out feeling dirty and cheap.

Enjoy