Touring - Touring with a Sachs Motor

Just thought I'd drop in to find out if anyone else out there in the touring world uses a Sachs motor. My partner and I have never come across anyone else touring with these motors even though we've ridden 60,000 kms throughout Australia, the US and Canada.

It all started in 1991 when we toured on ordinary bikes in Victoria. We were hooked, except the headwinds were soul destroying. Hills are OK; you can get off and walk, and there's always the downhill to look forward to. But headwinds! I vowed after that trip that on my next tour I'd go free-style: wherever the wind blew, that was my direction. Or I'd get a motor.

And they're great. Cruise at about 20km/h, maximum about 25. On one of our trips we cycled from Spartanburg, SC, to Las Vegas on about 10 gallons of fuel each. On average I suppose we provide about half the energy from pedalling. A strong heart beat feels good, but if we start to work up a sweat, on comes the motor.

See, we're not out to prove anything. We've met the trans-USA cyclists in Montana who by midday had already clocked up 100 miles with a tailwind. Up at dawn and ride till dusk for the six weeks or so it takes them to cross from Portland to Portland. 100 miles typically takes us two or three days. We tour for four to six months at a time and we're not out to bust ourselves. We simply enjoy travelling. I'd prefer horseback really but you have to look after them and can't take them on buses/planes/trains. So our second choice was bicycles.

Back to Montana. Two things I remember: the ferocious headwinds for 500 miles (we were travelling west and gave thanks to our motors several times a day); and a friend who joined us from Tasmania just before we crossed the Highway to the Sun in Glacier National Park. When we met again back home he showed us his stats: his average daily distance when he rode with us for two weeks was 74km. When he headed off on his own for the last week, that climbed to 136km. But he did say it was full on then, and he 'had no time to stand and stare'.

Our motors also allow us to go places where it would be a real pain without them. Coming out of Death Valley there is a long, gradual 28km haul which would have been simply an unpleasant 4-5 hours slog without our motors. As it was, we got to the top in a couple of hours of firm pedalling, spent a few more hours to climb a 10,000 foot peak overlooking the valley, then freewheeled down the other side for the longest I have every gone without pedalling: 33 km.

I look on the fuel we have to carry as taking away the numbing boredom of hills and headwinds. Each litre of fuel is also equivalent to about 5 litres of water - sweat that we don't lose. That aspect has an added bonus: we can be self sufficient in food and water for five days, and so can go where very few bikes have gone before. For instance, beside the railway line from Kalgoorlie (Western Australia) across the Nullabor - four weeks without seeing another vehicle except for a few trains.

For us, having the motor doesn't detract from the cycling experience as it allows us to go places we wouldn't go otherwise. And if we want to pedal, we pedal.

Anyway, does anyone else out there tour this way, or know anyone who does?

Take it to the motorcycling forum pal.

Take it to the motorcycling forum pal.

Knew that was going to happen. This forum is populated by tourists of the purist mindset, myself among them. I think a lot of people here appreciate the challenge of getting somewhere under their own power, and will rightfully scoff at a motorized experience.
That said, do whatever makes you happy, but don't expect the respect and admiration of those who aren't afraid of the "burn".

Just don't try and compare or catagorize the two together, you know. Think of it like mediums of art, one is no better than the other and the only real guage of enjoyment is personal at best, and not applicable to generalization.

To me, I don't think of it terms of miles per day or whats behind me, but how much I'm enjoying myself. I will push myself for a destination, but not to keep a milage count. The important part about bicycle touring that is that you travel and do it in the most enjoyable way to yourself. These are my values.

Have fun and enjoy the long road!

James "Dio Rallen" Schiffer
diorallen@gmail.com
www.thisendlessroad.com

If you enjoy it, thats all that counts. Happy touring to you.

I have ridden across the US twice on a bicycle, 3 times in a plane , 6 or 7 times in a car and hitchhiked once. The only thing left is a by foot, on a boat (which I haven't finished yet) and on a moped,
Last summer I met a couple who rode thier 50 cc mopeds from Burbank Ca. to Boston Ma. they spent 62 days on thier mopeds meandering thier way across the country. they camped nearly every night and had a great time. I could see myself doing that.

check out thiis moped touring group , gotta love the trailer
http://www.ministry-mc.nu/images/nordkap/slides/moped1.jpg

Aussie:
If you're having fun, do it!

I look on the fuel we have to carry as taking away the numbing boredom of hills and headwinds.

Those are really the most interesting parts of touring (to me at least, not the funnest mind you, but the most intersting), when else do you travel slower then you can walk? And see things you would never see on a regular bike ride?

I suppose I should clarify a bit. Touring by motorcycle is perfectly valid, it may not be a choice that I would make but whatever gets people out and about. However this is a bicycling forum and I have no doubts that on the wider internets there are plenty of forums for those who travel by motor.

Hey, this is a bicycle I'm talking about. When I want Schwalbe Marathons I go to a bike shop. My light is a bicycle light, my panniers are bicycle panniers. From a distance it looks like a bike. It's got handlebars, 15 gears, Shimano derailiers. It's a b-i -c-y-c-l-e. It just happens to have a sixteenth gear: M (for motor). If we're riding in a city with a lot of traffic noise, the only way I can tell if the motor's on - if it does happen to be on which is less than half the time - is by the slight vibration. I can't hear the motor over city traffic. A pedestrian, or fellow cyclist, wouldn't hear it on a country road more than 30 metres away.

Many a time we been filling up with gas (all of 0.5 gallon) and the attendant will come over a jokingly say: "I suppose you want to fill her up with gas" expecting us to say we want air or something. Their look of surprise when they DO see our motor is always worth from us: 'Yeah, we've got 30cc, 1/4 HP, of raw, throbbing power back there'.

We pulled up in Reno after 5 months touring and there happened to be a convention of several thousand REAL motor cyclists in town. So we parked right amongst them. Got quite a few interested looks and questions. But we would never be accepted as motor cyclists. Now some of the cyclists don't want us. Looks like we're all alone. Which was why I posted the question. Has no one ever seen a bicycle tourer with a Sachs motor? Maybe we're unique.

Thanks to those who gently acknowledged that enjoyment should be the prime consideration.

Guy Burns

Hey I say get out and tour on what ever fills your boots but don't call an apple an orange. If you put a motor on a bicycle it becomes a motorized bicycle...Motorbike for short. If you put a motor on a glider is it still a glider or a motorized airplane.

Gtscottie, the thing is that even with such a motor people still have to use their legs... Althouh I never tried a bike with this kind on machine on, I believe many unfit/older people would get back on two wheels if their bike wer equiped as such... I can definetly see my mom enjoying her bike much more and even go on small tours...

Personaly, I don't see why we should be so strict on our definitions of what truly is bicycle touring here... and my bet is that we can learn a lot from people doing what we might consider different activities.

I have never met anyone touring with a small motor on their bike but have seen quite a lot of people commuting to work with electric bikes... in my view that is much better than an SUV ;-)

I tend to agree with magic tofu here....If the small motor is all it takes for someone to get out and exercise a little then so be it....that would still be better then no exercise at all ;)

1/3 horsepower equals 186 Watts, pretty impressive . . . would more or less double the power output of your average tourist. Pretty cool.

I would never use one though. Part of the cycle touring experience for me is the sound of the tires on the road, the wind and the wildlife around you and nothing else. Knowing that you are travelling the land while leaving the smallest possible impact, non polluting and self sufficient with just food and water. Having a motor would lessen the experience for me in many ways.

So I ask all of you, when you see comments in the threads from Guy Burns regarding traveling (not equipment or camping or what have you) do you have any second thoughts regarding it's applicability to your potential tour?

Could you post a picture of your bike?

I thought you'd never ask! Do you want a close-up? In the Sonoran Desert near a giant sajuaro cactus? In Labrador with an ice berg just off shore? In the middle of the Nullabor where there were just trains, camels, dingoes and us for four weeks? Those lonely, red-dust roads of the Australian outback always make a good photo. I'll see what I can dig up.

Be back in a few hours.

Guy Burns,

Keep posting. Ignore the idiots.

Ignore the idiots.

This is a VERY useful everyday advice. Here's a couple more: keep this thread civil, do not resort to personal insults or harrasment. See the Forum Guidelines (http://www.bikeforums.net/faq.php?faq=basic_guidelines#faq_harrassment) for details. Thank you.

--Juha, a Forum Mod

I toured around the western US on a Yamaha XT 250; 5000 miles, 30 days, 3 festivals(only the first was on the original plan), 90miles to the gallon, 35MPH. Fun and I saved as much in food as I spent in fuel and never felt like I was being run off the road.
(The festival were: Gorge games for 3 days, gilroy garlic one day, and Stugis bike week sunday to sunday). However, I get some parts from an auto parts store so does that make it a car or less of a motorbike? I could call it a bi cycle as it has two wheels. but with pedal assist, hmm, call it a hybrid or a moped or just a good ol' freak.
The whizzer rocked once, why not again?

Say you what you will about motorcycles but when my Chain broke 30 miles from home yeaterday I was passed by 4 Lance wannbes who never slowed down or looked back, The two guys who stopped to offer assistance were riding Honda Goldwings.
I have been of the opinion lately that bicyclists ( at least in my area) are becoming increasing aloof , while I frequently get the left hand salute ( medæval salute of respect between knights)from motorcylists.

Well here's some photos that I hope will prove to the sceptics that what I've got is a motorised bicycle, not a motorbike.

The first shows a close up of the bike today in my backyard in Tasmania. The second is when we were in Labrador in 1997, rode up from SC.

The third is outback Queensland. Hundreds of kilometres or roads like this. And when you're on them, they're all yours - most of the time.

Wow, with 10 litres of water and 3 litres of gasoline (plus all the other gear) I can understand why you would want to have some assistance in pedalling...

How do you keep the motor from frying your rear left pannier?

--J

... while I frequently get the left hand salute ( medæval salute of respect between knights)from motorcylists.

Heh, when I was riding through the American SW desert I was leapfrogging one day with this group of Harley riders who were stopping at every town to visit the saloon. They all started waving every time they would roar past farther down the road. I sometimes wonder why motorcyclists wave at bicyclists? I mean, c'mon I'm out there busting my butt sweating and moving under my own power and they are sitting on a V-twin motor twiddling their wrist. We have something in common? I consider motorcycles to have far more in common with cars than in common with bicycles. And I used to ride one too.

More on topic: if it has a motor, it ain't a bicycle. Because really, why stop at 1/3 horse power, you could always go for more . . . I think this thread should be entitled: touring with the world's best gas mileage motorcycle

"This is a VERY useful everyday advice. Here's a couple more: keep this thread civil, do not resort to personal insults or harrasment. See the Forum Guidelines for details. Thank you."

Quite right Juha. Point taken.

gilroy garlic one day

wow cool! I rode through there and was sad because I had missed the garlic festival!

Heh, when I was riding through the American SW desert I was leapfrogging one day with this group of Harley riders who were stopping at every town to visit the saloon. They all started waving every time they would roar past farther down the road. I sometimes wonder why motorcyclists wave at bicyclists?


Yeah I had that experience once myself, I suppose our common thread is that most people traveling on
4 or more wheels would prefer to see anything with 2 wheels off of the road

I built a motorized bicycle about a week ago, but can't imagine touring with it. It would be fun, but I would want to carry plenty of spare parts! Only ridden it 50 miles so far, get about 150 mpg, but it is tempermental. I can just imagine breaking down 50 miles from a town in 120 degree heat and having to PEDAL the behemoth the rest of the way... :eek: It would be a fun adventure though. How does that Sachs motor hold up? I have a spitfire 48cc on a cruiser bike, does about 20-25 mph, and climbs most hills real well...

That's really cool Guy. In the other forums, people talk freely about electric bikes, I don't think we'll be invaded by motorcyclists because of one motorized bicycle thread.

I sometimes wonder why motorcyclists wave at bicyclists? I mean, c'mon I'm out there busting my butt sweating and moving under my own power and they are sitting on a V-twin motor twiddling their wrist. We have something in common? I consider motorcycles to have far more in common with cars than in common with bicycles. And I used to ride one too.

More on topic: if it has a motor, it ain't a bicycle. Because really, why stop at 1/3 horse power, you could always go for more . . . I think this thread should be entitled: touring with the world's best gas mileage motorcycle

Well, I frequently wave to lone bicyclists when I'm out on my motorcycle because as I am also a bicyclist I feel a sense of camraderie with them, and I want to give them encouragement. I also watch out for them, and have reported cars that hassle bicyclists to the CHP. I can't ride my bicycles exclusively, nor do I want to. I enjoy all forms of two-wheeling. And waving. I will say this, road bicyclists rarely wave to me when I'm on my bicycle either - probably because I have racks on most of my bikes, or don't wear appropriate attire most of the time. Or I'm smiling too much. Even on a bike path, there is rarely acknowledgement from someone in full kit. I have found that generally they are one of the rudest and pompous of any group out there. Quite different from mtn bikers or touring folks, or for that matter - motorcyclists. What's up with that?

And lastly, I think Guy Burns and his partner have a great setup and kudos for them being out there and doing it.

The motor doesn't generate much heat or noise, but I do stick on the pannier the sole of an old thong (flip-flops - I don't know what you call them in the US) which is about 10mm thick. I put it there not to protect the pannier but to protect the plastic case of the motor on that side. Although thinking about it, it would insulate as well.

Now a bit of philosophy. When we took up touring the outback our first choice of transport, as I said in my original post, was horseback. But we're not horsey people so that wasn't possible. We'd been bushwalking for years and thought of travelling on foot, but you can't do that in the outback because of problems with carrying enough water. So bicycle it was.

We wanted a 'human-scale' experience that was slow and where you experienced the environment around you - the dust, sweat, sound of birds; where you were locked in to your situation by the mode of transport; meaning, if you were hungry or it started to rain and you wanted to get to the next town you couldn't just press the accelerator a bit more and travel 100km in the next hour. A bicycle (or horseback or on foot) forces a bit more responsibility on you as you have to be self sufficient. I designed the add-ons for our bikes just with that in mind - five days of self-sufficiency. For instance, I built the rear panniers out of 1/4" steel rod. If I ended up with a broken frame on some lonely outback road 200 km from the nearest town, and maybe not a car passing for the next two or three days, I wanted to be able to sit on the back of Jenny's bike so she could double dink me.

We wanted to go touring. The mode of transport was largely irrelevant, whereas most people in these forums have chosen to go touring by bicycle and leg power. Our mode of travel is just as human scale as a normal bike: we can't go any further in a day (in fact, usually a lot less), we can't get there any faster; we simply have the option, if we want, of assistance up those hills and against those head winds.

But yes, it is different. We don't have the sense of achievment that a pedalling cyclist has. We simply wanted to travel at a human pace and we've done that.

I'll finish with a Rodney Rude style "Don't you just hate that!" motor-assisted bicycle joke:

Ya goin up hill so you put the motor on. But there's a strong tail wind and it blows the fumes all over you. Don't you just hate that! Or, you're goin downhill, pretty flat really, and the headwind's so strong that you have to put the motor on. God I hate that!

It's not all beer and skittles with a motor.

Response to THEDEN: "How does that Sachs motor hold up? I have a spitfire 48cc on a cruiser bike, does about 20-25 mph, and climbs most hills real well"

The Sachs motors we have are German built but I think they are now made in Taiwan. When we first arrived in the LA in 1996 with these bikes my first job was to find local US sellers. There weren't any. I rang most of the big bike shops in LA but only one had every dealt with them, and luckily for me he had a brand new motor that he was keen to get rid of because it was his last one. $300 he sold it to me for.

These motor are exceptionally reliable. We have done about 3000 hours on them. I had one major problem when we broke down on a Navajo reservation in northern Arizona and were stuck there for a few days. Had to get permission from the boss to stay there. One of the two interior oil seals popped off. So, that meant a full strip of the motor, and gasket-seal the oil seal back in. I can strip the motor down to the piston level in about an hour from being on the bike. I carry about a kilo of tools to do that, and another kilo of spares.

My guess is, a brand new motor would give you about 1000 hours of use before things possibly started to play up. Reliability: We left ours in SC for two years in the late 1990s, drained of petrol. Came back, pedalled them down to the local gas station, fill em up, and mine started second pull. I still don't believe that happened.

Superb German engineering.

Guy,

Sounds like they are great motors. My spitfire motor is a marvel of chinese engineering :rolleyes: . If it lasts more than 1,000 miles or so I figure I didn't do too bad. The kit was only $177 to my door though, so I can't complain too much. Gas savings alone should pay for it before too long, and it was a fun little project. Now I am trying to figure how to retrofit a shimano 3-speed nexus hub to get a little better gearing, and to increase top speed. My current drive sprocket is good on hills, but this ability reduces top speed on the flats...

Anyway, how much do the Sachs motors cost? I wonder if there are any suppliers in the US. A motorized bicycle is a great form of transportation. Between my regular commuter bike, a motorized bike, and maybe an electric bike for grins, my wife and I may get rid of one of the cars in the future. No insurance, no licensing, cheap, and you still have mobility when your legs are shot from normal riding.

I'm impressed.

The Xmart bike held up all that weight and still kept going. You're braver than me to ride that bike but it looks like fun anyway. That's all that matters.

Guy,

Anyway, how much do the Sachs motors cost? I wonder if there are any suppliers in the US. A motorized bicycle is a great form of transportation. Between my regular commuter bike, a motorized bike, and maybe an electric bike for grins, my wife and I may get rid of one of the cars in the future. No insurance, no licensing, cheap, and you still have mobility when your legs are shot from normal riding.

Go to www.rotarybike.com, the Australian importers on the Gold Coast, Queensland, for pictures and some details. They have a Rotary Petro DIY kit for $1499AUD, so it's a lot more expensive than your Chinese version. I paid $1200 ten years ago. I don't know of a US distributor. There weren't any in 1996 when I enquired from the Sachs factory in Germany.

Rotarybike.com sell the Taiwan version, but they may have both. The Taiwan version is slightly inferior to the original German Sachs although spare parts fit both. Little things like: steel rear rim instead of aluminium; shorter pull handle; no decompresor when starting (I can pull-start mine with two fingers).

I'd like to see a photo of your bike if you can post one.

Thanks.

Guy,

I'll take a pick tonight and post it. I rode it about 10 miles last night. No problems other than a little water I left in the tank from fixing a fuel leak. Just needed a little thread sealer at the petcock. All good now, but the motor didn't seem to burn that left over water too well... :rolleyes: I have finally figured out the best air/fuel mix and the best spark plug gap. Now if I just thin the oil in the fuel a bit on the next tank I should be good to go...

Phil

Gtscottie, the thing is that even with such a motor people still have to use their legs... Althouh I never tried a bike with this kind on machine on, I believe many unfit/older people would get back on two wheels if their bike wer equiped as such... I can definetly see my mom enjoying her bike much more and even go on small tours...

Personaly, I don't see why we should be so strict on our definitions of what truly is bicycle touring here... and my bet is that we can learn a lot from people doing what we might consider different activities.

I have never met anyone touring with a small motor on their bike but have seen quite a lot of people commuting to work with electric bikes... in my view that is much better than an SUV ;-)

I feel I need to explain a few things. I am not knocking anyone for touring on anything. I toured many miles on a YZ125 Yamaha. Not something I would recommend. I did the Alaska highway on it. I think you should ride what you can and take the time to enjoy the trip.

Guys bike looks like a riot I would love to try it some time. If you want to call it a motorized bicycle instead of a motor bike you are probably just splitting hairs. Maybe we could call it a moped and we would all be smiling.

Scoana: Because some one has a different opinion than yours does not make them an idiot. It makes them another person with an opinion that you can agree with or not.

"Scoana: Because some one has a different opinion than yours does not make them an idiot. It makes them another person with an opinion that you can agree with or not."

Gtscottie,

You are correct. It was not about differing opinions however, but about the intolerance of individuals in allowing the poster to be on this forum.