General Cycling Discussion - how am I gonna get a refund on my bike?

MY 1 month old bike has a few problems.
Small patches of rust on various bolts, dodgy brakes and a splitting tyre.

I dont think my bike shop is gonna give me a refund he will just replace these parts.

I want a full refund as I think this shows that the bike is not 100% perfect and has been treated badly before I got it.

Im not willing to damage the bike in order to get a refund, but what sort of things can I tell him about the bike in order to get a refund?

I dont want this bike and I dont want a replacement as I am starting to feel that this is not a serious bike, its just a toy.

The frame is OK but the components are not. Im not willing to spend a fortune upgrading everything, because its cheaper to buy a better bike.

SO.............what BS stories can I give him about the bike in order for him to offer a refund?

I know this isnt morally good, but the salesman conned be (as I dont know much about bikes) into thinking this was a seriously good quality mountain bike when in reality every time I get a tiny bit of air everything rattles and the brakes get misalligned.

No need to feed him any stories or compromise your honesty.

Is there some kind of consumer protection agency where you live? Tell him you'll speak to them about your rights. Maybe you can phone them first so that you can let the guy know that you know exactly what you're entitled to.

Is there a local newspaper or radio station that'd be interested in a story about a dodgy retailer? Tell the guy you're prepared to take the story to the media.

Is there any local cycling groups that might like to hear about your problems? Tell the guy you'll speak to them about your experience.

You'll have to be very honest with each of these places so that the bike shop guy will have no grounds to take action against you.

Go back to the shop and tell them you want your money back or credit towards a good bike. Tell the guy who sold it to you that he decieved you and you need to take it up with the owner of the store.

Having said that, I will say this; buyer beware, caveat emptor, do your homework before you spend, a fool and his money are soon parted, etc, etc.
Not calling you a fool at all. Just try to get the shop to do the right thing first. Tell them everything you told us and you are not satisfied with the purchase and they need to make it right.

Feel free to call me a fool , cos I certainly feel like one.

I saw components on the bike which I thought were decent only to look on the net and realise that they are not.

Rock Shox Judy TT, Alvio gears etc...

I guess if I was happy with the bike I would overlook the problems or just get a few bits replaced, but Im not happy with it so Im using these problems as an excuse to get a refund and spend about three times as much getting a decent bike.

I guess you're not interested in buying at the same shop after they ripped you off, but if you're prepared to do so, just let him know that the bike is not up to standard and you want a much more expensive model.

With the possibility of making 3 times as much profit he may be more inclined to do something.

If all else fails, trade it in at another shop and give them the money.

unfortunatly the bike shop dosnt sell nice bikes.

and the guy dosnt know what he's talking about, I asked him a few questions about what I needed to do to look after from front shocks and he told me one thing that later I found out to be wrong.

also I plan on getting a shop to build me something nice, buy a frame and spec the components.

In the UK, the key phrase to use is "This is not of merchantable quality" . This will set alarm bells ringing because it means you have read the consumer protection act. The law is on your side, so act as though you mean to use it if you dont get results.

Im English but Im currently living in Japan and I dont have a clue about Japanese consumer law.

Also I dont speak Japanese so finding out about these things is proving difficult.

Originally posted by horton
Im English but Im currently living in Japan and I dont have a clue about Japanese consumer law.

Also I dont speak Japanese so finding out about these things is proving difficult.

First of all, if you are in Japan, I truly do not believe you were deceived. I have always found Japanese store owners to be legitimate and honest. Competition in Japan is to tough to do otherwise and a bad reputation spreads like wildfire there.

Second, if you were not knowledgeable enough to determine the quality of the bike/parts when you bought it, then I question if you are knowledgeable enough now to determine that the bike/parts are unworthy.

Rock shocks, Judy... these are worthy and recognized components. Maybe you heard somebody talking trash about them on a forum, but you can always find somebody to talk trash about anything. Are they 'best in class'? Who knows, but for you to buy the absolute best in Japan would cost you so much that your chopsticks would spin.

My guess is that the shop owner was not trying to rip you off and you should not try to rip him off in return. Go to the shop and say "moshiwake gozaimasen desu ga..." and explain your situation. I'll bet he will do whatever he can to make you happy.

Don't expect him to just give you a full refund for your now non-new bicycle. You couldn't do that with an automobile that you just drove off of the lot and you can't do it with a bike either.

A bike with a Judy TT and Alivio shouldn't be that bad. It's not the best stuff in the world, but it works. The tyres splitting sounds fishy. I've got small patches of rust on bolts on my bikes, it's just poor maintenance/carlessness. Get some WD-40 and some steel wool and clean it up. Then next time your bike gets wet, make sure you dry off the bolts. The brakes being dodgy is a simply resolved problem, have the bike shop wrench adjust them. It doesn't suprise me one bit that they are dodgy if the bike is only 1 month old, new bikes will need tune ups every few months for awhile while all the parts break in. If the tyres are splitting, tell the bike shop guy you want new ones, OR, contact the tire company and tell them their tyres suck and you want replacements.
Sounds to me like you have a Specialized HardRock ,Gary Fisher Marlin, or Trek 4900, both are fine bikes.

I was trying to avoid buying a Imitation mountain bike and the shop owner recommended a Giant, and pointed me towards the best one he had in the shop.

I asked if it was a real mountain bike and he said that it definatly was.

I have taken the bike back to the shop once already to have the brakes adjusted, aprox 20mins later they are rubbing on the rim again.

Regarding the rust, I have the bike stored inside and it hasnt got wet.

I can live with a little rust but when I have this and a split tyre it leads me to believe that the bike has been stored outside at some time in its life.

Im not trying to rip this shop off, I dont think the shop is dishonest, I just think they sold me the best bike they had in the shop at the time.

He should have told me that they dont sell the sort of bike I was after and told me to look elsewhere.

If he makes me some reasonable offer then I would take it, but Im not willing to lose alot of money as the bike was not in great condition when I bought it and it was not the sort of bike I was led to believe I was buying.

I dont know if the shopkeeper is honest or not because when I collected the bike he had fitted it with some cheap plastic pedals and when I asked about them he told me that they were what came with the bike, I had to show him the Giant catalogue and point out the metal pedals after doing so he 'found' these pedals and fitted them for me.

Am I not understanding something here? An uninformed buyer purchases a bicycle at an agreed upon price and a month later realizes that it's not equal to a bike that costs 3 times as much. Horton, you're suffering from buyers remorse and have construed those feelings to where you believe the dealer ripped you off and nothing short of a full refund is going to make it right.

If the frame is worthy, as you say, be straight with the dealer about those components that you are not satisfied with. The dealer may or may not offer you savings off retail on upgrades. He has the ability but not the obligation to do so.

The fact that you asked for help with a BS story to approach the dealer is appalling and makes me wonder why you complain about the high cost of upgrading. You apparently don't see anything wrong with adding to the cost for people who take responsibility for making wise buying decisions yet end up subsidizing people who want something for nothing!

In the future - Caveat Emptor :mad:

Originally posted by threadend
Am I not understanding something here?

yes you are obviously not understanding the whole story.

I want a refund because there are components which are rusting and a tyre that is splitting.

Because of this I think the bike has been left outside or somewhere equally unsuitable prior to me buying it.

I dont want any part of a bike that has been left outside to rot.

The reason I comment about wanting a better/more xpensive bike is regarding the fact that I want a refund rather than the bike replaced with an indentical�@model.

As for my story being BS would you like me to post some pics of the rust, the split tyre or the brake resting on the rim?

If I get a new bike for the same money it wont be from the same shop as he mislead me and lied to me.

Im sorry if this seems rude, but please read the whole thread before making offensive comments.:D

There's nothing wrong with Giant. About the wheel rubbing, try having the wheel trued.

Hey I have a Trek 4500 with those same components and I am very satisfied. Is it equal to a Trek 8000? Not by a long shot. Is it fun to ride and holds up good? Yes. Rock Shox Judy TT and Alivio are good components, you can get much, much better but you better be prepared to pay and you can get a whole lot worse.

I ride with guys with the Trek 8000, Schwinn Homegrowns and High end Specialized Stump Jumpers and keep up with them. I may bounce a little more or have to pedal a little harder because mine weighs a little more, but I have just as much fun. One other thing is my bike is holding up under the same conditions as the higher end ones. Maybe not as long as they do, but on the other hand I don't have the money in mine as they do so it a wash. Unless your going to race get your tire fixed and have fun.

I bought what I could afford at the time and will get a better bike when I can afford it and I am better. :confused:

Oh yeah I have a Specalized Sirrus Comp that is a $900+ bike that got wet and guess what, there was rust on the inside of some of the bolts. I took a little oil and cue tips and it cleaned right out. :beer:

I think that I was probably a bit upset about getting a new bike that wasnt perfect in my eyes.

But Ive decided on the perfect solution.

Im going to take the bike back to the shop and get the tyre replaced and brakes adjusted.

Then my wife will try the bike for size and assuming its an OK size for her, then I will give her the bike.

I want to go riding with her, but she seemed reluctant to replace her beloved 10yr old shopper, but I would prefer to give her this bike than sell it for a fraction of what I paid new.

Then I will buy the sort of bike that I should of bought in the first place.

One question though, the V Brakes have already been adjusted, but continualy rub on the rim, the wheels are 100% straight if the bike shop cant get them to stop sitting on the rim what should I do? Is this something that Giant would be able to sort out? cos I dont realy want my wife to have a bike with rubbing brakes.

I am certainly not an expert, but I think if you have you shock adjusted to light it can cause the brakes to rub a little. Maybe some of the mechanics on here can give you more advice on that. Just a thought.

Originally posted by horton


I want a refund because there are components which are rusting and a tyre that is splitting.

Because of this I think the bike has been left outside or somewhere equally unsuitable prior to me buying it.

Welcome to Asia. Japan suffers from astounding acid rain that waifs over from soft-coal fueled Mainland China. Look around you. EVERYTHING rusts in Japan. In China, it is worse. I own two bikes in China that I know to be well taken care of yet they disintigrate in the acrid air.

Look at the bikes in the enclosed bicycle parks near the train stations - rust, rust, rust. You need to spray the inside of your frame with rust preventative and you need to wax your bike frequently.

The tire splitting is a different story. I don't know why that would happen, but it is not normal for a new tire (Although this is a known problem with the sidewalls of Bridgestone high pressure road tires).

Mike

V brakes are powerful but I did not have a nice experience with them. I had a Giant Warp DS-2. The v braje that came with it was of the lowest grade, without the screw to adjust the spring. It gave me so many problems, including once when I havd to ride 10km with my brake pad on the rim.

I eventually replaced the whole rear brake system, with a better V brake. That's what I will suggest you to do. I am not sure what V-brake you've got but it sounds like mine. Go get another one for long term benefit.

I am using 2001 Avid Disk Brake system now and it works great.

BTW, you should definitely warn your wife about the front brake!

You maybe be able to reconfigure the spacers on the brakes to eliminate the rubbing. But if you do reconfigure, you'll have to readjust the cable tension. Do you have the owners manual for the brakes?

I dont have a clue about bike mechanics I will leave that up to the bike shop.

I had an email from Giant stating


the shop should honour the warranty and so therefore if they can not fix the problem you would be well within your rights to ask for a replacement V brake that can be adjusted.

so the shop can either fix the brakes or replace them.

just got the quote for my new bike and it about 3.5 times more than I spent on the Giant.

I told the wife how much the quote was and she seemed suprisingly calm.

You MUST inform Giant about this! It is very unusual for Japanese to cheat you and he must be a huge a55 hole!

Tell Giant that shop's name and maybe you can send them a copy of the receipt for your bike. Believe me, Giant will do something to him.

Giant is a Taiwanese company if you haven't known that already. Here, Giant sells their bikes through their agents. The prices are all fixed so that the shops can't cheat you with the price. The shops therefore compete with the quality of service, and sometimes with the accessories they give you upon the purchase.

If Giant branch in Japan refuse to respond to you, please scan your receipt, send it to me and I will make sure that the Giant HQ here will get it.

juanyh@hotmail.com

Originally posted by unrelated
You MUST inform Giant about this! It is very unusual for Japanese to cheat you and he must be a huge a55 hole!

Tell Giant that shop's name and maybe you can send them a copy of the receipt for your bike. Believe me, Giant will do something to him.

[/email]

What? You don't even know what kind of bike horton is replacing the Giant with. In fact, I must have missed the model of Giant that horton bought in the first place. There are plenty of bikes that cost 3.5 times more than a Giant Mountain bike.

Horton admits several times that he doesn't know much about bikes and knows almost nothing about mechanics. Horton tells us that he has more money than knowledge.

Bearing that in mind, we better give him sound advice so he doesn't make a fool of himself while angering what might be a legitimate bike shop owner.

REFUND?! REFUND?!.........REFUND?!

You gotta see Breaking Away to get that.:)

Originally posted by RacerX
REFUND?! REFUND?!.........REFUND?!

You gotta see Breaking Away to get that.:)

:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:

Originally posted by mike


What? You don't even know what kind of bike horton is replacing the Giant with. In fact, I must have missed the model of Giant that horton bought in the first place. There are plenty of bikes that cost 3.5 times more than a Giant Mountain bike.

Horton admits several times that he doesn't know much about bikes and knows almost nothing about mechanics. Horton tells us that he has more money than knowledge.

Bearing that in mind, we better give him sound advice so he doesn't make a fool of himself while angering what might be a legitimate bike shop owner.

OK heres some answers to fill in the blanks.

The Giant is a Japanese model XtC 840, which I think has a different spec than other XtC 840s. Alu 6061 frame, Alvio groupset, Rock Shox Judy TT front suspension. 12.3kg. cost me 60000 Yen which is about $480 US and 330pounds sterling.

I intend to replace it with a heavier but far more sturdy bike, I am considering a GT Ruckus 1.0 maybe an Orange Missile (but I think that would be a mistake as I admit I like the Orange because of its looks not the spec) maybe a Norco but most likely I will get a bike built for me. I have been reccomended a Planet X - Compo frame with Fox - Vanilla 125 forks and Deore groupset.

These bikes are all about $1600.

I certainly havnt got more money than knowledge (I wish) I have just come to the conclusion that if I want my bike to last Im going to have to buy something nice and pay the according price. Im looking for something nice and strong which I can jump off reasonably high drops and generally abuse without fear of breaking it. Weight is not an issue as going fast is not one of my greatest pleasures but jumping off drops certainly is.
The decision to buy a reasonably expensive bike has meant that Im not able to buy a 2nd hand car until a few months have past .
The choice was cheap car or nice bike, I chose bike because they dont need petrol, I work from home and the weather is nice and hot at the moment.

Im not going to either embarrass myself or anger the shop owner as I took the bike to him today, and asked him to replace the tyre and either mend, adjust or replace the brakes.

He had no problem with that, and is keeping hold of the bike until monday when he will contact Giant and speak to them about the rust appearing on the bike.

Whatever the outcome I shall be keeping the bike, unless he actualy offers me a refund.
As long as the splitting tyre is replaced and the rubbing brakes are sorted out the bike will become property of my wife, which is great for me as I will have a riding partner.

Although I was initialy upset with the whole issue I think alot of good things have happened because of this.

I have been prompted into getting the sort of bike I should have purchased in the first place, my wife is getting a bike that she would never have considered buying and because she will own a mountain bike, we can go riding together.

If the bike won't hold up for you and your wife is going to ride with you what makes you think it will hold up for her? :confused:

Horton, I don't mean to be insulting... but having read this whole thread, I think one could have suspicions that the problem here is not so much that you bough a shoddy, ill-assembled bike, but that, having post-purchase regrets, you've decided that you wanted a different bike all along and that you're just trying to get out of the purchase.

Not having met you, nor seen the bike, I couldn't say one way or another... and it may just be because I'm a very cynical person.

Originally posted by gabiker
If the bike won't hold up for you and your wife is going to ride with you what makes you think it will hold up for her? :confused:

the problems with the bike are:-

1. Splitting tyre which is being replaced.
2. Brakes rubbing on rim - they are being fixed/replaced.
3. Small rust spots, which I will rub down.

so there will be no problem for her when she gets the bike.

Originally posted by velocipedio
Horton, I don't mean to be insulting... but having read this whole thread, I think one could have suspicions that the problem here is not so much that you bough a shoddy, ill-assembled bike, but that, having post-purchase regrets, you've decided that you wanted a different bike all along and that you're just trying to get out of the purchase.

Not having met you, nor seen the bike, I couldn't say one way or another... and it may just be because I'm a very cynical person.

thats not insulting, infact there is some element of truth in your statement.

but I would not have even considered returning my bike had I not experienced problems with it in the 1st place.

I think the problems made me realise that the bike wasnt all I was expecting, and because I was experiencing problems I joined this forum and had the misfortune to read a thread which pointed me towards a bike builders that makes beautifull bikes.
My bank balance would be happier if I had not read that thread and I had not realise that I wanted to own one of those bikes.

But yes I do regret buying that bike but as I said alot of good things came out of the whole situation.

My wife has a bike which she likes, Im getting a bike I like, the original shop sold a bike, another shop will sell a bike & I decided to spend my cash on a bike rather than a car.

That just shows there is a bright side to everything. Hope you and your wife enjoy you're new bikes and rides together.

Well, horton, it sounds like you are getting this thing resolved in a way that is satisfactory to you and fair to the seller. That is very good.

On a different note, where will you be mountain biking in Japan? Where are the mountain bike trails there?

Yep horton, I know you don't need my approval, but you done me proud! :thumbup:

Originally posted by mike
Well, horton, it sounds like you are getting this thing resolved in a way that is satisfactory to you and fair to the seller. That is very good.

On a different note, where will you be mountain biking in Japan? Where are the mountain bike trails there?

I have no idea, but my wife is Japanese so I will get some japanese MTB magazines and ask her to find somewhere local.

Yesterday I managed to find a realy good shop with some pretty knowledgble people so I think I will import a frame from UK and get them to build me my bike.

Hopefully I can get some info on where to ride from them.

Horton, there are a bunch of mountain bike magazines in Japan and they give really specific locations of trails. There are also a number of books available. They are all in Japanese, but they are really good books.

If I remember correctly, there is a monthly or quarterly bicycling magazine that gives suggested trails. It also tells about neat lodging, hot spring baths, and resturaunts in the areas near the trails. It tells you which trains to take to get there too.

I don't remember the name of the rag, but it is in the conveniece stores like Lotte and 7-11.