General Cycling Discussion - Crank Question

I am contemplating finally purchasing a bike My one problem is that it only comes with a double crank set. The Cranset specs:

Shimano 105 Hollowtech Octalink Double - 52/39T w/ 175mm Crank Arms

Cassette: Shimano 105 - 13-25T - 9-spd


My dilemma is that Im in CO and most of my riding will be done in the mountains DO you think I need to go down the extra 9 teeth and get a triple crank that would read like this?

Crankset: TruVativ Elita Triple - 52/42/30T w/ 175mm Crank Arms


Cassette: Shimano Tiagra - 12-23T - 9-spd

I'm 24 and in good shape but I am unsure of how those extra 9 teeth could make or break my ride.

Your signature says "Make Pain Your Friend".

Without that triple you could be making a lot of friends.

:roflmao: :lol: :roflmao: :lol: :roflmao: :lol:

ok what if I stay out of the mountains and just ride hills would the 39 be killing me also?

No. You won't have as many friends.

Is a lower-geared cassette with the double a possibility? I know you can get a 12-27 Ultegra. This is what I use... granted the Blue Ridge is not the Rockies, but we have some pretty decent climbs around here, and I'm not exactly Lance Armstrong.

I'm old and in some sort of shape I guess. Unloaded in the hills of new england I ride a double ultegra 39 - 53 with a 12 - 27 dura-ace rear. It is fine for me. Loaded I run a 30 - 39 - 53 with a 12 - 34 XTR rear and it's good for it all. So if you're i light flier the double will be fine, but if ya want to hop coffee shops with the old guys the tripple is better.

SAve yourself the weight and the slow shifts and go up a few teeth on the cogs and keep the double. 13-25 is a good low-geared cassette, but you can go down to 13-26 or 13-27 as well. I think that would handle almost any climb up to almost 20 percent grade, unless you're out of shape and overweight. If you like, you can also change the front gearing from 39/53 to something like 38/50.

I have nothing particularly AGAINST triples, except that you pay a weight and efficiency penalty for a some gear ratios that you'll use twice a year at the most if you're in decent shape.

I am 53 I know I am not in great shape , but I have a 53x39 crank and my cogset 11x21 and I can climb a good uphill road in Scarborough Bluff that is a decent climb.

Chances are, any bike that comes with the gearing you described, does not have the derailleur capacity for wider gearing, whether it's by putting larger cogs or a triple on. If you really need the wider gearing, buy a bike set up for it. This would mean either having a triple, or wider cogs, but also having a long-cage derailleur.
FWIW, both of the possibilities you mentioned are much lower quality than the 105 crankset you currently have.

damn this is frustrating I was going to get the double crank with the 25 cassette but the wheels are only 700X20 and I hear these tires arent all that great :crash:


Frame: 7005 Aluminum w/ Oversize Tubing / Replaceable Derailleur Hanger
Fork: A-Pro AR-640 Cro-Moly Stem w/ Alloy Blades
Front Derailleur: Shimano 105 - Bottom-Pull - Indexed
Rear Derailleur: Shimano 105 - 9-spd - Indexed
Shifters: Shimano 105 - Dual Control - 18-spd Indexed
Crankset: Shimano 105 Hollowtech Octalink Double - 52/39T w/ 175mm Crank Arms
Bottom Bracket: Shimano 105 Octalink Splined - Cartridge Type
Cassette: Shimano 105 - 13-25T - 9-spd
Chain: KMC Z-9000 Super Narrow -Dk Silver
Brakes: Shimano 105 Sidepull
Brake Levers: Shimano 105 (integrated w/ shifters)
Tires: Kenda K-177 - 700c x 20 Kevlar - Black/Yellow
Rims: Alex DA-22 - 32H - Aero Double Wall Alloy - Black w/ CNC sides
Front Hub: TRC w/ Quick Release
Rear Hub: Shimano Tiagra w/ Quick Release
Spokes: 14G Stainless Steel
Handlebar: HL Ergo Drop Bar
Stem: HL Forged Alloy
Tape: Vinyl Cork Type
Headset: CH-202 Aheadset CarteidgeType
Pedals: Wellgo RC-705 Clipless - Graphite Finish
Saddle: Success Turbo F-1 - Pro Road w/ Gel
Seat Post: HL SP-230 Aero - 27.2 x 300mm Alloy - Micro Adjust
Seat Clamp: Kalloy Alloy
Color: Deep Sea Blue w/ White


they want 750 What you think?

I come from the "decide what you need and add a fudge factor" school of thought. I always want to have lower gears than I think I am going to need. Yes, you pay a "weight penalty" with a triple. Are you a Cat 4 or above racer? Then who cares. Unless you have 5% body fat, you are carrying a bigger weight penalty around 24 hours a day. My thinking is, if someone even has to ask if they need a triple, they need a triple.

I'm just an old fat guy who has been on a couple of pretty hilly rides with cyclists much fitter than I. I made it to the top of some pretty nasty hills faster and more comfortably than they did because I had a triple and could spin slowly, but comfortably up the hills in gears as low as 30/34 on my very heavy commuter while they were slogging up in slow motion on their carbon fiber Treks. They even had triples, but only 12-23 on the back. Yeah, they can ride circles around me, but if I hadn't had the low gearing to ease the climbs I never would have finished the 47 mile ride because my legs would have been toast.

Now having said all that, right now I only have a triple on my commuter/tourer. But I have one of my road bikes set up with a cyclocross type double, 34/48 and fairly low geared 14-25 cassette which will handle most stuff. If I am headed out to the hills, I put on an LX derailleur and a self-assembled 14-34 cassette. The 34/34 combination gives up only 3 gear inches to a 30/34 so it will handle pretty much anything I need. But notice, it is very low gearing like a triple, just via a different path. I could just leave it set up with the big cogs and derailleur, but where's the fun in that? In 5 minutes I can put on a traditional 39/52 up front if I want to. Unless you are inclined to tinker with your bike as I am, though, a triple will allow you to have more fun in the mountains.

Just another point of view.
FWIW,
Raymond

This is an age old question, double or triple, and one I wish I had asked before my purchase a few years ago.

A weight penalty is ridiculous unless you race.

Any hill I climb with the granny gears of my triple can be done with a double. People do it.

If I could do it over I would have opted for the double.

It'll save a few long looks from club riders also. :(

Originally posted by D*Alex
Chances are, any bike that comes with the gearing you described, does not have the derailleur capacity for wider gearing, whether it's by putting larger cogs or a triple on. If you really need the wider gearing, buy a bike set up for it. This would mean either having a triple, or wider cogs, but also having a long-cage derailleur.

Nicely said D.

Im thinking of breaking down and going to the local bike shop and spening 1500 dollars on a bike worth 400 :crash:

Hmm....
Tiagra rear hub, no-name front hub, Wellgo pedals. Did they switch wheels, or is this the way it was spec'd?
FWIW, I wouldn't want to count on such low-line hubs and pedals. It sounds like the 105 components are there to catch your eye, but there isn't much $$ spent on the real meat. They also have el-cheapo tyres, cheap chain, etc. You can do better used.

Ya know, I listen to all this and of course as usual, I have an opinion. By now you all probably know me, I ride a lot, I carry heavy loads on my bike, I ride centuries with groups on weekends, I race twice a year, I build bikes and sell them to others, here is the real story without the garbage.
Don't ever worry about others opinions, never mind the looks from the club riders, If they were true cyclist, they wouldn't be giving the looks. They don't feel the pain you feel with your inadequate gearing. There are NO bad bicycles, they all have character in one way or another, all of todays components work, some just work better and more refined than others. If you plan to ride rides that are longer then the neiborhoods usual 10 mile loope, and you are not Lance Armstrong, why wouldn't you get the tripp;e. On the long rides gears are your friend. If the bike you buy hurts you to ride, you will not ride it. If weight is your concern, you can go up in price and quality and save weight. On my touring bike I have a Shimano Dura-Ace tripple, it's light and pretty, everyone comments on how nice it is, even the club guys. Bicycles are very personal machines, get the one that fits and is geared correctly for the way you want to ride it. You can always change it as your physical condition gets better or your riding style changes.
This is my advice to you. Find and talk to, true and knowlegable cyclist about what you want from a bike, if they're a true cyclist, they will talk to you and be honest. Find a good bike shop in your area and talk to the guy in there that is a cyclist and not just a sales person who happens to work there.
A couple of other things that you should know. Frame material is not as important as most make it out to be. Ride quality ususlly goes hand in hand with price, there are aluminum frames that ride well, there are titamium frames that don't. If your looking for a long term dependable bike that is capable of doing all types of riding well, give butted steel a good hard look. I own many bikes of all types, they are all great rides, in their own way but when misapplied they don't perform well.
Cycling should be fun, buy a bike should be fun, if done properly with the correct and properly applied equipment it is a great lifestyle.
Not all people who ride bikes are cyclist, and true cyclist are not always found at the races.

Originally posted by mrfix
Ya know, I listen to all this and of course as usual, I have an opinion. By now you all probably know me, I ride a lot, I carry heavy loads on my bike, I ride centuries with groups on weekends, I race twice a year, I build bikes and sell them to others, here is the real story without the garbage.
Don't ever worry about others opinions, never mind the looks from the club riders, If they were true cyclist, they wouldn't be giving the looks. They don't feel the pain you feel with your inadequate gearing. There are NO bad bicycles, they all have character in one way or another, all of todays components work, some just work better and more refined than others. If you plan to ride rides that are longer then the neiborhoods usual 10 mile loope, and you are not Lance Armstrong, why wouldn't you get the tripp;e. On the long rides gears are your friend. If the bike you buy hurts you to ride, you will not ride it. If weight is your concern, you can go up in price and quality and save weight. On my touring bike I have a Shimano Dura-Ace tripple, it's light and pretty, everyone comments on how nice it is, even the club guys. Bicycles are very personal machines, get the one that fits and is geared correctly for the way you want to ride it. You can always change it as your physical condition gets better or your riding style changes.
This is my advice to you. Find and talk to, true and knowlegable cyclist about what you want from a bike, if they're a true cyclist, they will talk to you and be honest. Find a good bike shop in your area and talk to the guy in there that is a cyclist and not just a sales person who happens to work there.
A couple of other things that you should know. Frame material is not as important as most make it out to be. Ride quality ususlly goes hand in hand with price, there are aluminum frames that ride well, there are titamium frames that don't. If your looking for a long term dependable bike that is capable of doing all types of riding well, give butted steel a good hard look. I own many bikes of all types, they are all great rides, in their own way but when misapplied they don't perform well.
Cycling should be fun, buy a bike should be fun, if done properly with the correct and properly applied equipment it is a great lifestyle.
Not all people who ride bikes are cyclist, and true cyclist are not always found at the races.

well said.

Thanks Chewa, I have realized that you were a true cyclist as soon as I started reading your posts when I first found this site.

Originally posted by mrfix
Don't ever worry about others opinions...
I dunno... It seems to me that the original poster had actually solicited other opinions in this case. And he got them.

Originally posted by D*Alex
Chances are, any bike that comes with the gearing you described, does not have the derailleur capacity for wider gearing...
Correct me if I'm wrong, but shouldn't the standard Shimano and campy RDs have a capacity up to and anclunding 27t in the rear?

No Velocipedio you are not wrong, But Shimano intended the SS cage to shift up to 25 teeth, it will shift 27 but those whe cross chain too far will experiance slopy shifting on the inside of the cassette, the GS cage was devoloped for the tripple crankset. Even on the tripple, if you want to go more than 27 teeth on the cassette you should use a long cage Mountain bike deraillure for best shifting performance.

Short cage Shimano Ultegra and Dura Ace will handle up to a 27t rear cog. This is stated on their site. A 27t cog/39t chain ring combo will handle almost ANY hill on a sub-twenty lbs bike......provided the rider is in reasonably good shape.

Yes it will handle it but, as I said (for best shifting performance), everything has limitations. One other thing, there are people out there that ride anything, they mis-match components, mis-adjust matched components, don't do required maintenance and ride every day and think that all of the things their bikes do and all of the noises they make are normal. I feel if a drive train is making noise, it's in pain. There is nothing that sounds more beautiful than a silent bike going down the pavement, shifts are suppose to sound like just one click when the shifter is activated, any more than that needs attention.

Originally posted by u-ray
I am contemplating finally purchasing a bike My one problem is that it only comes with a double crank set. The Cranset specs:

Shimano 105 Hollowtech Octalink Double - 52/39T w/ 175mm Crank Arms

Cassette: Shimano 105 - 13-25T - 9-spd


My dilemma is that Im in CO and most of my riding will be done in the mountains DO you think I need to go down the extra 9 teeth and get a triple crank that would read like this?


I'm 24 and in good shape but I am unsure of how those extra 9 teeth could make or break my ride.

Well a 30 is nearly 25% lower than a 39. So 9 teeth can make more difference then you would think. Plus with a triple, you can ride a wider range of gears on your rear cassette and still have the gearing you need.

I am a pretty strong rider. But when I ride in Colorado, I like to do long climbs at high altitude. Sure, you can do those rides with a double. But I don't like riding for an hour or two wishing I had a lower gear. I like to spin up those hills in a gear that is comfortable. Now a lot of it depends on your riding style. I prefer a high cadence and I like to sit and spin on hills. So for me, a triple makes a lot of sense. Of course, the hills in Colorado are not THAT steep. Sustained climbs tend to max out at 7% and those can be ridden with a double and many people enjoy it. You might try borrowing a double and a triple and riding a local long climb and see which you prefer.

I had recently owned a mtb which had a triple and it climbed hills for shiz, I was always dropping the bike into the 30t. Now I took the MTB back (sick of road bikes flying by me) and am now wanting a road bike, I went to the bike shop last night and I had them let me ride a double with a 39t set. The bike was around 24 lbs the guy said, I had no problems getting up the hills. In the lowest gears. And it was a great challange. SO I decided if I want to get stronger I should stick with the double forcing myself to ride up steeper hills in the lower gear. And not bailing out and riding the 30t ring. I did not buy the bike though becasue I feel that paying 749 for a bike with shimano sora components is a little much.

Im still contemplating buildign my own bike but I cant find any good reading material. I found all kinds of material on fixing and repairing but nothing on how to build a bike from scratch. I know I want a strong frame for a more comfortable ride, and I know I want 700*23 tires, and I know I want shimano 105 componentry . except were I can save money like on the breaks etc... Im pretty sure I will just end up buying one Garts is having a sell for a shimano sora (full) for 440. Its got the 700*23 tires but it has a shady frame its only a 6000 aluminum. Also the bike is ugly its all grey.


Yes I did solicit the opinions of others I think that is the best thing to do in most cases. I feel without books and other people telling me how things work that I would be in the dark. So any opinions you guys have I take to heart. Its just that sometimes you guys talk way over my head. Ill catch up with you soon enough on the road and in the lingo I hope. Thanks All~


I still dont have a bike dammit.

FWIW, Sora components are pretty much garbage.
Also, yes, the shimano derailleur can handle a 12-27 cog, but you need a longer cage for using a triple.

Originally posted by D*Alex
FWIW, Sora components are pretty much garbage.


I think that's a little harsh. The group is self-limiting in terms of upgradability, and the levers aren't designed for competitive riding, but I've spent most of my life putting many tens of thousands of miles on components that weren't as nice as Sora.

This isn't to say I recommend it, especially to a buyer who really wants a better bike and is just trying to save money. It's a false ecconomy, because people buy Sora-equipped bikes and end up replacing the whole bike rather than just upgrading a few components, because the manufacturers often cut a lot of other corners on their low-end road bikes.

Personally, I think it's too bad Shimano doesn't make a 9-speed lever with the Sora design. The adjustable reach (unique among STI levers) and thumb-shifter are attractive to many riders, especially those with small hands. I think the only really junky Sora part is the RD, which a lot of people seem to be having trouble with.

I've seen a lot of very unattractive bikes with Sora, but the Sora wasn't most of the reason they were unattractive.

RichC

Originally posted by mrfix
never mind the looks from the club riders, If they were true cyclist, they wouldn't be giving the looks.

The looks come with the territory. I'm a big boy.

I just wish I'd bought a double. Thats all.

Originally posted by u-ray
I want shimano 105 componentry . except were I can save money like on the breaks etc...

Don't scrimp on the brakes! If you have to save money, save on something that won't kill you if it fails.

Because you live in Colorado, I would recommend the triple. Eventually, you will be doing mountains and will be crying for that next gear down.

Remember, if you change to a triple chainring in front, you will probably need a different derailure in the back. Triple chainrings in front means you will need more chain take-up capability which means an extended derailure chain festoon arm as are found on mountain bikes.

There are hills, and then there are HILLS.

I know there are some very seasoned riders on this forum but I find it a hard to swallow when they say you can climb any hill without a triple, it will just hurt more.

That's like saying you can go up Alps just like the Tour de France pros, it will just hurt, so take the pain.

I say, no you can't. Study your capability and then study the hills. The chances some will openly look down upon you as a ***** for having a triple, but then again the chances are you will be looking down at them when you drop them up a 5 k+ 25% grade climb.

Triples are good ONLY for climbs. Get them if you think you'll need them, don't if you know you won't. just don't fool yourself.

Personally I have found that the higher cadence i can attend uphills thanks to my triple makes a 5 kph difference. I think that's very significant.

Ugh, what was the question?

Hey are you fat? Are you going to load touring gear on the bike for rides? Then get a triple.

The only other reason was if you wanted a lot of gearing close together so you could work on a nice spin with exactly the right resistence on those long mountain grades.

But forget 30t chainwheels, do a 53,43,32 with a 12x27, you'll have teeth in all the right places and nicer shifting all around!

Or maybe not.

Originally posted by u-ray
I had recently owned a mtb which had a triple and it climbed hills for shiz, I was always dropping the bike into the 30t. Now I took the MTB back (sick of road bikes flying by me) and am now wanting a road bike, I went to the bike shop last night and I had them let me ride a double with a 39t set. The bike was around 24 lbs the guy said, I had no problems getting up the hills. In the lowest gears. And it was a great challange. SO I decided if I want to get stronger I should stick with the double forcing myself to ride up steeper hills in the lower gear. And not bailing out and riding the 30t ring. I did not buy the bike though becasue I feel that paying 749 for a bike with shimano sora components is a little much.

Im still contemplating buildign my own bike but I cant find any good reading material. I found all kinds of material on fixing and repairing but nothing on how to build a bike from scratch. I know I want a strong frame for a more comfortable ride, and I know I want 700*23 tires, and I know I want shimano 105 componentry . except were I can save money like on the breaks etc... Im pretty sure I will just end up buying one Garts is having a sell for a shimano sora (full) for 440. Its got the 700*23 tires but it has a shady frame its only a 6000 aluminum. Also the bike is ugly its all grey.


Yes I did solicit the opinions of others I think that is the best thing to do in most cases. I feel without books and other people telling me how things work that I would be in the dark. So any opinions you guys have I take to heart. Its just that sometimes you guys talk way over my head. Ill catch up with you soon enough on the road and in the lingo I hope. Thanks All~


I still dont have a bike dammit.

So right now, riding the local stuff in a double chain ring is a "great challenge".

Here is my take. If it hurts all the time, you are not going to do it. Get a bike with gearing that is comfortable for you. Let the LBS guy ride the double if that is what HE likes to ride. I would suggest getting the triple chain ring.

Now, you may well get into better shape and be able to hammer the hills you want to climb in a double. But I think you will still do better being comfortable on a triple and when you get into better shape, getting a double. Also, if you don't get into better shape, well you will still be able to ride the triple.

My suggestion, is borrow a nice triple chain ring road bike and give it a try on the local hills. Also you don't lose very little in performance with a triple. You do lose some snob appeal.