Commuting - Door Prize!

I had my first crash of 2005 yesterday. I was pulling up to a red light to the right of traffic, at maybe 25 km/hr past to the right of a line of stationary cars. Just as I'm about to pass this Lexus SUV, the back seat passenger throws his door open in my path. I was pretty much boxed in, so I just kind of threw my body away from the opening door. My drop bars hooked the edge of the door, and my left shoulder caught it, and hyperexteded the door. I managed to keep my head, and the rest of my body away from the door, so I wasn't really hurt. Remarkably, my bike only suffered a torn brake lever cover, and a slight twitch to the front wheel.

True to form, the SUV driver was a total prick. The first words out of his mouth, with me sprawled on the pavement, are: "That's what you get for passing on the right". Then he shoots his mouth off at me some more, and manages to tell me how he's gone through this before (!) with another cyclist-all with an arrogance and distain that surprise even me. I was in mild shock, and I didn't want to let him bait me-so I kept my mouth shut. Finally, he walks around to the passenger side of the car, and notices the damage to his vehicle. Creased sheetmetal near the door hinges, and the door would not close properly. At this point, the driver has a complete change of attitude. He asks me if I'm OK (how touching) and tells me he would like to exchange information with me. He can barely contain his enthusiasm as he attempts to find witnesses. I told him that I was not particularly interested in aiding him with his insurance claim, and left. I'm pretty sure the guy was going to sue me for damages. Probably would have won too.

So he was discharging passengers while not fully against the curb... how interesting.

Of course the vehicular cyclists will say that you should never have been on the right of this vehicle unless you were turning right. Otherwise, you should have been in your proper "destination position" behind the vehicle... snorting exhaust gas.

Of course, if you were turning right, you would have been between the vehicle and the curb. But far enough away to not be doored???

While you may have been in the wrong position... discharging passengers away from the curb is bad practice...

But I am not sure if it is illegal.

Since almost all SUVs in Toronto are single-occupant, I would have thought that the odds or being doored on the passenger side are far lower. Which makes his comment about "passing on the right" a bit ironic. Makes me wonder what he does to people who pass him on the left... I'd personally rather be doored onto the sidewalk than into the passing lane.

And it's *great* how Torontonian drivers will happily squeeze by you in the same lane when they are passing (regardless of your lane position, I find) but get all indignant when you pass them in the same way. The traffic act, it seems, only applies to other people.

Sorry about the brake hood. Kudos about the Lexus.

Of course the vehicular cyclists will say that you should never have been on the right of this vehicle unless you were turning right. Otherwise, you should have been in your proper "destination position" behind the vehicle... snorting exhaust gas.

Of course, if you were turning right, you would have been between the vehicle and the curb. But far enough away to not be doored???

While you may have been in the wrong position... discharging passengers away from the curb is bad practice...

But I am not sure if it is illegal.

Technically, I was wrong to be passing on the right, but I believe the driver has a legal obligation to signal and pull into the curb to unload passengers. Really, I think it is all hot air with this kind of situation. As a cyclist, I can't realisticly *not* pass on the right when commuting in rush hour. I mean, sure it is possible, but it nullifies much of the advantage of riding in the first place. And, if I'm going to do that, than I sure as hell am going to take up the whole lane *all of the time*. You want to pass? Great. Change lanes.

Ouch, sorry man. But, you were somewhat in the wrong...this is the issue with passing on the right, do so at your own risk.

Don't see why they opened the passenger door in the middle of the road, however.

Glad your OK, and stayed cool!

I would have exchanged info though, because you went down. Sometimes injuries can be masked by the adrenalin&shock of the incident.

You'd have to check the provicial code, but I'm pretty sure vehicles cannot allow passengers to leave in traffic (even if it is stopped) and the driver or passenger has to look to see if the path is clear before opening the door to leave.

I'm also pretty sure (yes it sucks) that you are not alowed to pass on the right if you are not in a bike lane or the vehicle being passed is not stopped and signalling a left turn.

I've seen vehicles stop and release passengers in the middle of a right hand turn as they briefly stopped while checking oncoming traffic to the left.

yeah your in the right (in my eyes) doing what you did, but i might have stopped and gotten his info... you could have maybe gotten the cost of a new brake lever cover and wheel true back from his insurance company! and what if you woke up this morning in some serious pain???

not a trying for a lecture, just an idea for the next time that will hopefully never happen...

when possible, STICK IT TO THE MAN! :)

Thanks for the input guys. I spoke with a friend of mine who was involved in a simalar accident. He claims that the police officer sided with him, and the driver had to pay for the damage to his bike. That surprised me.

I'm pretty sure this guy was a lawyer, from the way he handled the whole situation. I figured the risk of exchanging my personal info. was not worth the expected benefit.

well, kudos on damaging his SUV anyway.

Even if he did an insurance claim, I don't think they could've gotten any money out of you. It just would've raised his premiums. You could've gotten a whole new bike out of it (whether or not you needed it).

I'm in Toronto too and I don't think you did anything wrong, from what I read. I am not familiar with any regulations stating you cannot continue up to the light against the curb. If the jerk in the SUV (why is it all the high-end SUV's have the worst drivers?) was discharging passengers from a travelling lane, he is in the wrong. I would have collected his information and given none of your own (what could you give? say you don't have a license and we don't need insurance, so...). I'd have said that upon consultation with a lawyer he may be hearing from you. That has nearly happened to me many times (usually cabs) and I think even they realize they are in the wrong. I've even followed bike ops up the curb to the light. The only time I ever stop is if the var is too close to the curb and I can't get by.

I'm in Toronto too and I don't think you did anything wrong, from what I read. I am not familiar with any regulations stating you cannot continue up to the light against the curb. If the jerk in the SUV (why is it all the high-end SUV's have the worst drivers?) was discharging passengers from a travelling lane, he is in the wrong. I would have collected his information and given none of your own (what could you give? say you don't have a license and we don't need insurance, so...). I'd have said that upon consultation with a lawyer he may be hearing from you. That has nearly happened to me many times (usually cabs) and I think even they realize they are in the wrong. I've even followed bike ops up the curb to the light. The only time I ever stop is if the var is too close to the curb and I can't get by.


Good advice. I think I really should practice what I am going to say and do the next time something like this happens. I was way too out of it and shaken up to really think things through clearly at the time-and the guy was really starting to piss me off. Experience has taught me not to say I am OK, and not to get up right away when some driver smokes me. Next time I will at least take down the guy's license info in case I need it.

You should have taken out your u lock and modified his car and face.

Another driver who is forever against bikes and cyclists on the roads...

You should have taken out your u lock and modified his car and face.

Another driver who is forever against bikes and cyclists on the roads...

Alas, I was only packing a cable lock. I wish I could see the bill for his door:)

Good advice. I think I really should practice what I am going to say and do the next time something like this happens. I was way too out of it and shaken up to really think things through clearly at the time-and the guy was really starting to piss me off. Experience has taught me not to say I am OK, and not to get up right away when some driver smokes me. Next time I will at least take down the guy's license info in case I need it.

I understand being shaken up and not thinking rationally. A few years ago, my then-8 year old son was riding on the sidewalk up in the Dovercourt/Davenport area when an SUV came zipping out of a blind alley and onto the sidewalk, screeching his brakes as he tried to stop, but not before knocking my son off his bike and onto the road (where I was) as he tried to swerve around this #@(*&%@. I dove trying to catch my son and both our bikes hit the ground hard. In the end, neither of us were hurt, just really shaken up. If the driver hadn't been so apologetic and genuinely remorseful, I'd have killed him on the spot, I swear. But we walked the rest of the way home on rubbery legs and didn't realize there was damage to both bikes and he needed a new helmet until later. Unfortunately, I didn't have the presence of mind to have taken the guys info. I should have and I should have had him charged. Hindsight is 20/20

Alas, I was only packing a cable lock. I wish I could see the bill for his door:)

cable whip! Although it might ricochet (sp?) in your face :(

I understand being shaken up and not thinking rationally. A few years ago, my then-8 year old son was riding on the sidewalk up in the Dovercourt/Davenport area when an SUV came zipping out of a blind alley and onto the sidewalk, screeching his brakes as he tried to stop, but not before knocking my son off his bike and onto the road (where I was) as he tried to swerve around this #@(*&%@.

Oh man. That is just brutal. Must have scared you to death. That's way worse than getting hit yourself, for sure. Once again, my "irrational" hatred of SUV drivers has been encouraged.

Oh man. That is just brutal. Must have scared you to death. That's way worse than getting hit yourself, for sure. Once again, my "irrational" hatred of SUV drivers has been encouraged.

I don't ever want to experience that kind of stress and fear again. But, there was a valuable lesson for my son who until that day had been a reluctant and whining helmet wearer. Now, he doesn't even dream about going out without a helmet. And he's an avid cyclist. When he's not paying attention, I merely have to remind him about the SUV and the alley. He smartens up right quick. It was a poignant lesson learned without too much damage being incurred.

I got smoked on a door a while back too. I was biking up a small hill at night, had some good momentum, of course all my lights going, and all of a sudden this guy in a parked car, with no lights on whatsoever, opens the driver's side door. He did this when I was about 2-3 feet from the door, and if I hadn't swerved, I would have gone straight into the metal and probably snapped the door off it's hinges. Unfortunately for me, swerving to avoid the door led to my kneecap smacking into the edge of the door as the driver instinctively slammed the door shut. I couldn't walk, much less bike, for about an hour, and my mom picked me up and took me to emerg to see if I had any damage. I didn't, but the triage nurse digging into the gash on my knee to extract the road gravel was damned painful. The guy was nice and helpful and very sorry about it, and it wasn't really his fault, I just was frustrated because I had no way of knowing that the door was about to open, and he hadn't checked his mirror before opening the door or he would have seen my lights.

Today I had a not so dangerous but quite annoying incident. I'm on a bike escort team for the Vancouver Marathon, and we had a practice today, so we're going down a busy street downtown in single file, taking up 1/4 of the lane. We start off from a stop light and I pull up next to one of the other riders to tell them that their fender was falling off (I was about two feet away from the yellow lane divider) and this punk in a camaro blazes past us, his hand jammed onto the horn, IN THE OPPOSITE LANE. He obviously thought what I was doing was illegal-however the irony was that he actually did the illegal act.

Technically you are not allowed to pass cars on the right (I follow this about 0.001% of the time in busy downtown traffic).

Hope you messed his door real nice. Good thing you weren't hurt bad. This is what I do on stopped traffic.
It's going to be dangerous any way you choose it, unless you wait in line and take the lane.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y115/reciprocity/wohoo.jpg

Technically you are not allowed to pass cars on the right (I follow this about 0.001% of the time in busy downtown traffic).

Hope you messed his door real nice. Good thing you weren't hurt bad. This is what I do on stopped traffic.
It's going to be dangerous any way you choose it, unless you wait in line and take the lane.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y115/reciprocity/wohoo.jpg

That looks like you're riding between cars. That, I know, is not legal and doesn't look safe any way you look at it. I have never seen a cyclist wait behind cars if there's room to move up to the light on the right, including cops on bikes, and I've been riding for 25 years in downtown Toronto.

Technically you are not allowed to pass cars on the right

Here (Washington DC) it's actually written into the law that cyclists may pass left or right. We have goofy laws.

Here (Washington DC)We have goofy laws.

Is passing on the left democrat and passing on the right republican? LOL ;)

I'm sympathetic, but I think this is called "leaving the scene of the accident". Unfortunately, I think you were at fault. I've started waiting in line a lot more these days.

In many areas, bicyclists are permitted to filter forward. It's called "SHARING THE LANE."

25 klicks was probably a little fast, but other than that the OP is not at fault. If there's room for a vehicle to pass on the right, the passenger should check back before opening the door.

RFM

hey man, good to hear your alright and the suv got most of the damage. What street were you on when it happened?

I'm sympathetic, but I think this is called "leaving the scene of the accident". Unfortunately, I think you were at fault. I've started waiting in line a lot more these days.

This may be leaving the scene of an accident, and he may have been partly at fault, but I would think someone who opens their door in the middle of traffic would be at least at fault as the bicyclist.

That looks like you're riding between cars. That, I know, is not legal and doesn't look safe any way you look at it. I have never seen a cyclist wait behind cars if there's room to move up to the light on the right, including cops on bikes, and I've been riding for 25 years in downtown Toronto.

This is a common newb view. Any commuter or messenger worth his salt will tell you that it's safest to approach cars stopped by lane splitting, not by eeking it out on the right side of all the cars. This is where people tend to get out of their cars and is actually more dangerous.

This is a common newb view. Any commuter or messenger worth his salt will tell you that it's safest to approach cars stopped by lane splitting, not by eeking it out on the right side of all the cars. This is where people tend to get out of their cars and is actually more dangerous.

Ignoring the not-so-subtle insult, I have been commuting for 25 years and have not had an accident during that period. You can speak of noobs and couriers all you like, but riding between cars where they change lanes and do not expect to find a vehicle is both illegal and more dangerous (in my humble opinion) than riding on the right. I have seen cops cite cyclists and motorcyclists for doing what you suggest, but never have I seen them cited for approaching the light along the right hand side. I've also very rarely had a motorist object to me moving up so that I am ahead of the right-hand turning vehicles and am now visible to all the right lane motorists.

I apologize I am not worth my salt as a bike messenger (though I did that for 2 years in the mid-80's): I choose not be reckless, irresponsible and inconsiderate as they often (not always) are. They are not the best example to use, incidentally, when it comes to matters of safety or legal conduct.

The fact was the motorist and the passenger were at fault here, not the cyclist and what Alcyon did was neither illegal nor reckless.

Passing on the left at 25 km/h seems a tad dangerous to me. Wouldn't passing at 5 km/h get you to the light, but also give you time to react to opening doors and turning cars? And even if you DO hit a car, you and your bike would probably escape without a scratch. The plastic in a car door may still be dented, though.

hey man, good to hear your alright and the suv got most of the damage. What street were you on when it happened?


Thanks-I was on a sidestreet between Yonge and Mt Pleasant, heading south just north of Eglinton. I was probably 150-200 ft from the intersection, and wasn't expecting any door action. I was going too fast though.

Sorry, I didn't mean it as in insult my apologies.

But I will quote the HTA where it says it is illegal to do so. (Passing right, lane splitting, whatever)


150. (1) The driver of a motor vehicle may overtake and pass to the right of another vehicle only where the movement can be made in safety and,

(a) the vehicle overtaken is making or about to make a left turn or its driver has signalled his or her intention to make a left turn;

(b) is made on a highway with unobstructed pavement of sufficient width for two or more lines of vehicles in each direction; or

(c) is made on a highway designated for the use of one-way traffic only. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 150 (1).

In stopped traffic, unless everyone in front of you is about to make a left, you are not allowed to pass said vehicles.

Here's the source I quoted from. http://192.75.156.68/DBLaws/Statutes/English/90h08_e.htm#TOC

So bottomline is in most cases on your bike you are committing and offense if you pass stopped traffic. Whether they enforce it or not is a different matter.

I'm sympathetic, but I think this is called "leaving the scene of the accident". Unfortunately, I think you were at fault. I've started waiting in line a lot more these days.


I think legally it works both ways. I believe in the eyes of the law I would have been judged to be passing recklessly, even if it is permitted for cyclists to pass on the right coming up to a light (not sure if it is or not). However, I am certain that a driver letting off passengers has to signal and pull into the curb to do so. I talked to a friend of mine that was involved in a nearly identical scenario a couple of years ago, only his bike got wrecked, and the car was an S class Mercedes (what is it with these luxury car drivers anyway?). Apparently the police officer sided with the cyclist (my God, did I just write that??) and the guy had to pay for the damage to his bike-and his insurance deductable for the door.

You are right, I did leave the scene, as well.

This is a common newb view. Any commuter or messenger worth his salt will tell you that it's safest to approach cars stopped by lane splitting, not by eeking it out on the right side of all the cars. This is where people tend to get out of their cars and is actually more dangerous.


I actually do that sometimes, but I'm not sure that it is safer. At times it can be, but really you're just making yourself venerable to another type of accident. The best advice I could give myself, and perhaps other "spirited" commuters would just be to settle the *$%# down when riding in traffic. Now that it is spring I am finding myself stretching the limits of responsible bicycle operation. (but it is fun.)

Not to mention you are not supposed to open doors into traffic without checking for cyclists. But then the passenger could counter argue by saying they aren't going to be expecting cyclists to be illegally passing like that.

Up for the courts to decide I guess if it really comes down to it.

Sorry, I didn't mean it as in insult my apologies.

But I will quote the HTA where it says it is illegal to do so. (Passing right, lane splitting, whatever)



In stopped traffic, unless everyone in front of you is about to make a left, you are not allowed to pass said vehicles.

Here's the source I quoted from. http://192.75.156.68/DBLaws/Statutes/English/90h08_e.htm#TOC

So bottomline is in most cases on your bike you are committing and offense if you pass stopped traffic. Whether they enforce it or not is a different matter.

No offense taken. Thanks.

I have swung to the left to move around right turning vehicles and do it pretty much daily, but it always seems risky because the motorists in the left through lane don't seem to exprect me and they react sharply. If I hear someone honk at me it's when i do something like that, unexpected, whereas if I simply move up to the light and then go when it's green the right turn folks don't seem to mind. I travel along Bloor, College, Dupont, etc and none seem to be bothered, maybe because all the other cyclists are doing the same thing. But I understand moving around right turning vehicles by going into the middle

Not to mention you are not supposed to open doors into traffic without checking for cyclists. But then the passenger could counter argue by saying they aren't going to be expecting cyclists to be illegally passing like that.

Up for the courts to decide I guess if it really comes down to it.

I wonder if most common practise would prevail. I think even a dumb ass justice of the peace would figure cyclists continue going through on the right and wouldn't regard it as passing. Any turning vehicle has the onus to ensure the maneuver is safe before turning. But as for the situation at hand, since the car wasn't turning, it's a bit of a mixed bag. I still think it is the drivers fault for stopping their vehicle and discharging passengers without ensuring it was safe to do so

If there's enough clearance for me not to get door'ed I will go up on the inside.

I will wait in line if I think I'll make it through the green light.

If I don't think I will make it and there's not enough clearance (not to get door'ed), I will still move up but go SLOWLY.

I would agree though that the most prudent course is to wait in line.

I guess one of the ways it seems contradicting is that if you are in a bike lane along the right hand side, you are free to move up to the light, so the assumption is the curb is just like a bike lane.

One of the sponsored links on this page is for a Lexus SUV, just look under genec's post and you will see it, second one underneath the SUV ad.

One of the sponsored links on this page is for a Lexus SUV, just look under genec's post and you will see it, second one underneath the SUV ad.


Yeah, the site seems to have sort of adaptive advertizing. It looks for key words in your post, then finds the appropriate link. Sometimes it is pretty funny. Like in the do you carry a gun thread.

Yep, google ads are like that. Should've seen all the kryptonite ads in that thread discussing the vulnerabilities of the round key u-locks. Haha.

Sorry, I didn't mean it as in insult my apologies.

But I will quote the HTA where it says it is illegal to do so. (Passing right, lane splitting, whatever)

150. (1) The driver of a motor vehicle may overtake and pass to the right of another vehicle only where the movement can be made in safety and,

(a) the vehicle overtaken is making or about to make a left turn or its driver has signalled his or her intention to make a left turn;

(b) is made on a highway with unobstructed pavement of sufficient width for two or more lines of vehicles in each direction; or

(c) is made on a highway designated for the use of one-way traffic only. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 150 (1).

In stopped traffic, unless everyone in front of you is about to make a left, you are not allowed to pass said vehicles.

Here's the source I quoted from. http://192.75.156.68/DBLaws/Statutes/English/90h08_e.htm#TOC

So bottomline is in most cases on your bike you are committing and offense if you pass stopped traffic. Whether they enforce it or not is a different matter.

The section of the Ontario Highway Traffic Act you quote refers to "motor vehicles" specifically. A bicycle is not a motor vehicle, according to the Act but is referred to as a "vehicle" or as a "bicycle". The argument could be made that since section 150 refers to motor vehicles, it does not apply to bicycles. Section 1 of the Highway Traffic Act will give you all the definitions of the above terms.

That said, common sense would dictate proceeding with caution at a reasonable speed when moving on the right of cars.

I'm trying to imagine a car stopped on Yonge Street in the left hand lane with no turn signal, and a line of cars obediently waiting behind it because they think it's against the law to pass on the right.

Not gonna happen.

50 feet of right lane with no parked cars is enough for most drivers to try to pass the guy ahead of them even when he's doing the limit, much less stopped. Why are these laws even on the books?

besides:

b) is made on a highway with unobstructed pavement of sufficient width for two or more lines of vehicles in each direction; or

As in a line of cars and enough room for a line of bikes? That sounds like pretty much every road in the city to me.

Oh snap, I missed the motor vehicle part of vehicle. Disregard.
Although a law cannot be disregarded even if "everyone else" does it.

There's also laws for having a bell on your bike. How many roadies do you think have a bell on their bike?

Oh snap, I missed the motor vehicle part of vehicle. Disregard.
Although a law cannot be disregarded even if "everyone else" does it.

There's also laws for having a bell on your bike. How many roadies do you think have a bell on their bike?

Not just the bell, how about the Ontario requirement to have red reflective tape on the rear stays and white reflective tape on the front forks (regulation spells out minimum size too!)? How many roadies have that?

Oh snap, I missed the motor vehicle part of vehicle. Disregard.
Although a law cannot be disregarded even if "everyone else" does it.


I think it has to be. Try driving a car 99.9km/hr on the 401. You'll be run over by a semi-truck in pretty short order. Law of the jungle overrides every time. I'm not gonna be a pancake to help uphold some dead-in-the-water law-abiding principle.



There's also laws for having a bell on your bike. How many roadies do you think have a bell on their bike

I actually know of one. But it's not me.

Bells do such a great job of grabbing the attention of the engine-revving 900-watt stereo-pumping errant drivers with the tint windows rolled-up, no ride downtown in heavy traffic would be safe without one...

I was pulling up to a red light to the right of traffic, at maybe 25 km/hr past to the right of a line of stationary cars.

I'm an aggressive biker and constantly bend the traffic rules. I'm always filtering up through traffic any which way I can - but I do it in what I think is a safe manner.

HOWEVER, I would never squeeze by stationary traffic at 25km/hr. That's way too fast to be travelling in the door-zone. I hate to say it, but I think you share the blame with the big-shot lawyer in the Lexus.

I repeat - 25km/hr in a door-zone! Krikey.

This is a common newb view. Any commuter or messenger worth his salt will tell you that it's safest to approach cars stopped by lane splitting, not by eeking it out on the right side of all the cars. This is where people tend to get out of their cars and is actually more dangerous.

Operator, I do exactly what you do. In fact, I did it this morning only I went through the light and merged right with traffic after the light (I signaled and had plenty of space). Then this guy who was about 10 cars behind the spot in line where I re-merged to the right blew by me honking and swerved right in front of me trying to scare me. Apparently, he shares the view that my actions were not OK. Personally, I don't give a rip as long as I don't get a ticket. If our city wants to press it, and laws are more strictly enforced, that would likely also serve to afford cyclists more car-like rights such as merging left into traffic to turn left. So until I have every right behave like a car to get what I need, screw them, I will take it anyway I can. It is one way or the other folks, either we have rights and responsibilities, or we don't. But I refuse to have responsibilities without rights.