BBoomer

There are a quite a few idiots out there riding the roads of Oz that really piss me off, and giving cycling the bad press it doesnt need. These are the guys with their MP3's and mobile phones plugged into their ears, the bunch riders at 3 & more abreast, the red light runners and others with generally bad traffic habits. Was good to see a copper pounce on the moron that flashed past our bunch and through a red light on Beach Road Mentone on Saturday morning.
Get smart or get off the road people.

Chris L

You should send them up here. With all the idiots we already have, nobody would even notice them.

Limp Jimmy

Indeed, people riding 3 abreast does rather annoy me, or riding in a lane right next to a nice wide shoulder... mostly because it's dangerous and that reflects on me as a daily cyclist (who does tend to obey road rules). But if you rely on your hearing for safety on the road, then you are a danger to yourself and others — especially in a city.

The best cops are the ones who interpret the law: where I live, cops generally don't hassle or fine you for breaking a minor law unless it causes danger to others.

Bboomer's comments and somewhat blind attitude makes me think of that group of random of pedestrians standing at a crossing, waiting for the light to turn green. There are no cars in sight, yet they all wait because many are taught conformity over free thought. Conformity is EASIER for many and indeed serves a practical purpose. I'm not saying "be non-conformist", I'm saying "think for yourself and be positive".

Something I notice in cities like the one in which Bboomer probably lives, is that people get caught up in their small worlds and tend to blindly obey the conventions of society. Furthermore, they often want to punish anyone who doesn't conform, based on their own justification that because they choose to conform, everyone else should do the same. But everybody has their own version of what this means and it is seldom absolute... The frustrated London car driver who opens their door in stand-still traffic to coat-hanger a cyclist for riding in the middle of the road comes to mind... I've seen this mentality all over the world.

So, I wonder if Bboomer has EVER changed lanes or turned without signalling? Or broken any other 'rules'?? Has he ever crossed a road without using a crossing? Yes, yes he has. So, contradiction comes to mind. But I don't wish him ill unless he causes danger or angst to others — I guess that's the difference.

Sure, go through a red light if it doesn't cause any danger. As a pedestrian or cyclist, you don't have to wait at a red light merely because everybody else is... you CAN think for yourself.

Be real and take a look around.

stevegor

Limp Jimmy,

While I appreciate your passion for free thinking, if every cyclist or pedestrian did as you are suggesting, then what does one say to the police when questioned, "Why did you go through that red light and cause the traffic to swerve and/or crash to avoid hitting you?" or worse if they HIT you....
Your response?, "I am an independant free thinker? ".
I know you mean to only proceed when it's safe to do so, but IMHO I would rather have our Western conformist ways than the suicidal Asian experience.

Also, with the general public's negative view of cycling we don't need any more bad examples to upset the "cyclist hating" few who will actually cause physical damage to riders...ie: recent events in Sydney.

Ride safe

Limp Jimmy

Oh yeah, I hear you stevegor — and it's true, but we all know rules can only ever be a generalisation and that they work on conformity AND discretion. It's about tolerance. The irony of this conversation is that there will always be cyclist haters, as these people don't tend to think about things too deeply and are intolerant of anything that is not familiar or is challenging. It's the same reason they used to burn witches.

The point is, you wouldn't go through that red light and cause the traffic to swerve and/or crash to avoid hitting you in the first place, because you think before you act! Have you ever seen someone taken out at an intersection by a car because they were only looking at the green light? I have, and it's a powerful metaphor.

No, my response would be "you are right sir, I should have stopped. I was concentrating on making sure the traffic was clear". I often get sheet from car drivers for no reason, and that mostly seems to be because I am perceived as being different (I normally ride a tallbike), which challenges most people... much like the car-door-openers of any big city

I guess my point is about thinking things thru, rather than reacting or merely doing what you are told.

The War on Terror is a case in point: people believed it because they are used to not excercising free thought (and most are just too comfortable to be bothered thinking about it), when it's fairly obvious to a child that terrorism is usually a symptom, rather than a cause.

It's much like people talking about finding alternatives to oil, when it's clear that the underlying problem is our addiction to growth and therefore exponentially more energy use, therefore more rapid unsustainable raping of Earth... which doesn't make sense if we cared about our children or our species. When I was 12, it was clear to me that basing everything on an exponentially-expanding growth curve is fundamentally flawed when you live on a ball in space.

Remember to always cross roads at crossings (walking your bicycle, only if the light is green), no over-taking any vehicle on the left side (even if they are stationary), indicate when you change lanes or turn (whether traffic is present or not), etc, etc

stevegor

Off to work...afternoon shift.... I will respond later

stevegor

Limp Jimmy,
It seems our species is a dithering lot, they need some form of guidance.....or sanity falls apart, hence road laws, like 'em or hate 'em, generally they have served us well. Unfortunately the virtues you are trying to espouse have so long been lying dormant in the general population that they cannot, without great effort use them...in other words, they're just too dumb...or lazy.

In a perfect world, which this one isn't, your ideals would be fulfilled, but to trust others to do what you hope they would or should do is fraught with danger.

Chris L

I generally follow the road rules, but I'm about the only one on the roads around here who does. Everyday I see not only cyclists breaking the law, but motorists running red lights, chatting on mobile phones, speeding, trying to get around gridlock on the footpath, I see pedestrians jaywalking, the whole deal. Every so often the police around here hold a two-hour "blitz" on drunk driving, usually issuing hundreds of tickets (few of which actually attract fines), and then suspend the exercise for another three months. The question becomes this: If nobody else cares about the road rules, why should cyclists? Motorists clearly don't care, the police don't appear to care (try reporting a breach to an officer and see how much action they actually take), why should anybody else? It's reached the ridiculous stage that I have to watch the traffic carefully before stopping at a red light to ensure I don't get cleaned up from behind by some idiot who doesn't want to wait the five minutes they take to change.

I'm also more than a little skeptical about this "it gives us all a bad name" line that gets trotted out everytime someone wants to get on a high horse about this issue. There is simply no way that a driver's lifelong prejudices and beliefs are going to suddenly change just because they see a cyclist run a red light. If you don't believe me, try to change your own fundamental beliefs about an issue or a group, and see how much time and discipline it really takes. Now imagine trying to change those of somebody else within a period of three seconds (which is how long an interaction usually lasts). It's like trying to turn around a herd of whales with a single tadpole, it just doesn't happen in the real world. Most of the prejudices and attitudes of drivers come from their parents and their friends, and are generally formed long before they even reach legal driving age.

When we hear talk like "it's going to make drivers hate us even more", or "it's going to make the drivers who already hate us decide to hurt us", it just becomes another manifestation of the same old "blame the victim" bull***** that's been around far too long in this country. Ironically, the driver who leans on the horn, shouts abuse or throws things out the car window is actually breaking the law with those actions, so I hardly think they have any cause to complain about anyone else. What was that saying about "people who live in glass houses" again?

The only real solution to this problem is to hire a police force that might actually enforce the law, and hire some magistrates that might actually apply the penalties written in the law. Yet everytime there's talk about this, it's the motoring lobby who whine about it like five year olds and scare whichever government proposed it into somehow dropping the idea from the agenda.

stevegor

Chris,

Will it ever change?
I often wonder whether the motorists who give cyclists plenty of room, don't cut them off, give way etc etc are cyclists themselves or are aquainted with cyclists. Unfortunately most, it seems, are dim-witted morons who can't judge distance, speed and width correctly..how many times have you had a car behind and a car coming towards you and the meatheads can't help themselves but to pass you all at once together? I have countless times.

Limp Jimmy

I think everyone should ride about 5,000 Km (that's right, metric!) before being able to get a license to drive a car. Mind you, it won't be too long now before the new car will in fact be a bike. Probably way sooner than most of us could have imagined..

Chris L

Yeah, it happens, but I think all we can do is learn to deal with it and try not to get too upset about it. It's reached the ridiculous stage that when I had a shoe thrown at me on Sunday I didn't even look up to see where it came from. My latest bug bear is idiots who stop dead in the middle of roundabouts or intersections for no readily apparent reason. Admittedly, Queensland is the only place I've seen it happen, but over the last few months it's happened so often that I wonder how the road toll here (already the highest in the country) isn't higher.

I've come to the realisation that the police won't do anything about it, the token "education" campaigns the government runs everytime their political analysts tell them they need to "be seen to be doing something" are completely useless, so we need to learn to deal with it ourselves. Sometimes, that might just mean doing things that aren't popular. In the end, I'd rather be unpopular than dead, which is what I would be if I made the mistake of thinking we lived in a utopian society where everyone behaved as they should.

P.S. The good news is, if you want to experience the "sucidial Asian experience", you can spend an afternoon riding around Surfers Paradise -- actually, it's even more authentic, because in these parts, the Asian drivers are usually better behaved than everyone else.

stevegor

A shoe?.....did you stop to see if it fitted you?

One time riding home from work a school bus past me and I felt a gentle whack on my back...."Damn kids throwing something at me", I thought to meself, then when I got home my wife says to me..."Why have you got half a vegemite sandwich stuck on your back?"

I will put up with some stupid behaviour from motorists, but unfortunately I tend to chase some idiots down and let them know what I think of their actions, and that includes semi drivers. So far they concede and apologise, maybe the sight of a muscular, lycra-clad dude makes them back down...either that or the maniacal look in my eyes

Chris L

Yeah, I went through a phase where I felt like I should chase them down and give them a piece of my mind. Then I realised that if I just blew them a kiss it would usually upset them twice as much!

Seriously, I've seen that much stupid behaviour from motorists and cyclists alike that I just don't care anymore. Now I just wait for it to happen, and respond as the situation requires. If they really bug me, I'll give them a "tosspot of the week" post on my blog.

HyperHorse

Hey, back off...
I'll run red lights if i see there is no danger to myself or others.
A lot of the time there are a number of annoying red lights used only to accomodate pedestrians, particularly in the city.. And if i can break away from cars for a while (which i consider a safe thing to do), then i bloody will. Oh and if i want to make a right hand turn or whatever, then i do have to be in the right lane.. DUH...
What are more annoying and dangerous are TAXI DRIVERS!!!!
Some of those guys need to be lynched.
Oh and we don't see these idiots who ram into cyclists brought to justice, DO WE???

spannercrab

After riding bmx and mtb for a few years I have recently started riding a roady and my early experiences with motorists (particularly taxi drivers) just about made me stay on the trails!, within an hour of my first ride I was pushed into a concrete barrier and then abused by the mental defective that did it!, Now I only ride before 6am until I get fit enough to keep up with the local bunch riders but I still freak out every time I get on the thing.

RogerTully

Good one BB!
I wholheartedly agree! I have just responded to a local newspaper to whom a motorist had complained about a cyclist who wouldn't get off a narrow country road on a bend with a double white in the middle and let him past. This time the driver was the moron. My point of reply was ALL road users need to exercise caution, consideration and pateince. Cyclists have the right to use the roads but MUST abide by the road rules and exercise their good judgement with regards to th "3C's" I mentioned before.
rt

stevegor

Awhile ago where I live we had a "Ride of Silence" to acknowledge all cyclists that have been killed or injured locally and nationwide. All the different Sat morn groups met at an agreed place and time and with a police escort rode the 6 kms into the centre of town in silence. The police even stopped traffic at major intersections to allows us an un-interrupted solemn ride. After the ride a few of us headed off for some more kms and at a set of red traffic lights, a small number of younger riders decided it was ok to run the light. Maybe it was reasonably safe to do, but I just wondered how quickly they disregarded the ride we had just done. BTW, other young elite riders who waited were not impressed by their actions.