Evil D

Hey guys, not sure if this should go here or in the vintage section but here goes.

I got hit a week ago on my Lotus Leger, and it destroyed a bunch of parts. So the guy's insurance is paying to replace all of it, so I wanted to update to a Shimano 105 group. This was a solid plan, until the bike shop told me it couldn't be done because the proper brazed on pieces weren't on the frame. Seems to me that I've seen a lot of vintage frames with modern equipment on them, so aside from brazing on the pieces yourself, is there a way around this? Does anyone make those pieces in clamp on style?

dsbrantjr

What brazed-on pieces are you/the shop referring to?

demoncyclist

I'm thinking that there are no downtube braze-ons for cable stops. A clamp-on will work as long as there is a tab on the downtube to keep it from slipping.

FastJake

Is your Leger the big-tube aluminum one like this? Leger

If so, the shop you talked to is totally clueless. Brifters will mount fine on the handlebars, duh. You'll have to replace the down-tube shifters with cable stops (preferably with barrel adjusters). No problem with the front or rear derailers as long as the correct FD clamp diameter is chosen. Bottom bracket shell should be 68mm English threaded, again no issue there. One possible issue on older bikes is brakes but looks like your frame takes short reach calipers with recessed nuts - if so, new 105 brakes should bolt right up.

Now there is one potential issue here and that's frame spacing of the rear triangle. Since I assume it's your plan to put an 8/9/10 speed cassette on there that makes your rear wheel spacing 130mm while your frame is probably 126mm. Since it's aluminum you can't cold set it to 130mm which only leaves you one option - stuff the wheel in each time. I've read lengthy discussions on doing this to aluminum frames and it seems the consensus is that it shouldn't hurt anything. But do it at your own risk.

Evil D

This is my bike (before I got ran over on it)



I know absolutely nothing about this stuff, I'm a BMX guy at heart with a closet love of old road bikes, so any info on where/what cable stops to get will be very helpful. He did mention the issue with using a wider axle/hub in the back, so aside from wedging the rim in there, could they reuse my original hubs/cassette and will that be compatible with the 105 stuff? Is there ANYTHING else besides replacing the down tube shifters with cable stops that I should point out to them? You can even list it in this thread and I'll link the thread to the guy doing the work.

alcjphil

Is that the way you ride that bike? I ask because looking at the saddle height and the way you have the brake levers positioned, that bike is much too big for you

FastJake

+1 Bike is way too big for you if you ride it as pictured. The give away is the seatpost slammed down to the frame.

No, the 6 or 7 speed cassette will definitely not work with modern brifters. You could do a "9 of 10" on the current cassette hub but personally I'd just wedge the wider hub in there.

How many of your parts are actually broken from the crash? It might be easier to just replace those. Also, frankly, if the shop is so clueless they think your frame doesn't have the correct braze-ons I would definitely not trust them to put a new group on there! The ONLY issue is the rear wheel fitting.

Evil D

No, I don't ride it that way, that pic was taken the day I bought it, I also don't ride with that seat. I'm 6'1 so sizing is about right. As for the shop, I'm pretty much committed at this point or I pay a bunch in labor for nothing.

Jeff Wills

Ditto to all of this. If the bike shop isn't informed about these basic details, you need to find a better bike shop. Preferably one that's been around for more than a year or two.

rccardr 

Or have the bike shop call my cell at 7039873346.
I'll walk them through it using words of one syllable.
It ain't that hard.

Evil D

I ordered the cable stop adapters, so now they can run STI style brakes/levers, but they aren't comfortable wedging the wheel in there, because of "liability reasons". I guess I can understand that. They're gonna find a setup that's compatible with the factory hubs and 6 speed and relace my hubs to modern rims.

ThermionicScott 

They're still spouting bull****. Maybe you can be the one to introduce them to Sheldon Brown's webpage.

Homebrew01

Well, I suppose you could install the rear wheel for them. Do it slowly so they can follow along.
I have 2 Cannondales from the late 1980s using 130mm wheels .... No problemo.

There's a thread in C & V about converting old bikes to modern parts. About 140 pages worth of successful conversions.

FastJake

But did you already buy all the new 105 parts??? Because those brifters are definitely not going to work with anything 6-speed... If you're really paranoid one thing you could do is run a 7-speed rear wheel and use 9 sprockets of a 10 speed cassette keeping the 126mm spacing.

At the risk of sounding like a broken record the shop continues to sound completely helpless and I highly recommend cutting your losses with them ASAP.

hueyhoolihan

find a new bike shop.

fietsbob

Any how, 105 has been a Model designation at Shimano Corp for a Long time .. Ebay might have the period correct stuff Wheel axles have gotten longer
at the rear since then .. 126 to 130mm

+1 your seat post stuck? there should be at least 5" showing to have any standover clearance .. Straddling, standing over the frame flat footed should not Hurt your crotch.

himespau 

It sounds like they really just don't want your business.

rms13

I converted my 89 Ironman to 10 speed 105. No problems. I was able to "shove" the rear wheel into the frame with no problem. You are talking about a 4mm difference, spread the drop out 2 mm each way. Thousands have done it. I also agree find a new shop

Old_Roadie

Here are a couple of YouTube videos, hope this helps

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwxEPRk3LFg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJJyl0xPrJ0

rekmeyata

You have a vintage bike, I'm not into butchering vintage stuff and putting on modern junk to supposedly make it better, which in regards to bikes actually makes the bike less reliable!

So you have insurance money, go on Ebay and try to find NIB or NOS replacement components. There is a Suntour Alpha 5000 RD brand new in the box on E-bay right now for $100 and the same with a FD for $40. See: New Old Stock Suntour Alpha 5000 Rear Derailleur w Short Cage | eBay
See: New Old Stock Suntour Alpha 5000 Front Derailleur Clamp on 28 6 mm Model | eBay

Bradleykd

What shop are you going to? There is one in Lawrenceburg, IN (about 25 minutes away from Erlanger) called Cyclops Bike Shop that works with a lot of vintage bikes, they may be able to help you more.

I'm doing an '89 Merckx right now with 105. It isn't that hard. I'm pretty close, if you aren't in a hurry, we can set up a weekend soon where you can come down to Georgetown and we will convert your bike together.

That way you learn how to work on the bike yourself and get what you want without a shop messing it up.

Also, you must have put a new chain on that thing, or you are riding it as a single speed. lol

Evil D

Man, some of you guys must be skimming this thread lol.

No, I don't ride the bike with the seat slammed like that. Those pics were taken the day I bought the bike. Yes I can stand over the frame flat footed, no my junk doesn't touch the frame.

Hopefully we have that out of the way now. As for the shop, I think the guy dealing with my bike may not have much experience with modifications. He's trained to repair bikes, not to put modern equipment on a 30 year old bike. At any rate, he's also bound by liability, so anything that they may see as unsafe or that could put them at fault in any way isn't gonna fly.

I think I've decided not to do any of this anyway. I may look into getting a bunch of replacement parts for it, I haven't decided yet. The insurance company took their quote for all this and are sending me a check, so that'll probably just go towards one of my other bikes or a new (old) bike altogether.

Evil D

Yeah I've talked to Mark at Cyclops through email. He was going to give the insurance people an appropriate appraisal for me because I was sure she would screw me out of it's worth since it's "just an old 10 speed". But, I lucked out and got a good chunk of change for it. I'm probably gonna talk to him about some parts, so we'll see where that goes.

As for the chain, I don't follow ya. In that pic the chain is on the smallest ring on both ends, so the derailer is pulled all the way up. It's the original Sugino Cycloid ring set up front.

Bradleykd

Ah, nevermind about the chain. Looking at the picture before zooming in, it looked like the RD was pulled the other way while the chain wasn't even fully on that small ring.

Either way, good luck with the projects.

ThermionicScott 

That SunTour/Sugino stuff is/was nice.

If you "got run over" on this bike (congrats on living, BTW) which destroyed many of the parts, are you and the shop even sure that the frame is still good enough to re-use? I'm trying to imagine a scenario where most of the drivetrain would get taken out without affecting the frame and coming up short. Might be best to focus all of your effort and insurance money on the new bike...