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Old 04-18-05, 07:06 PM   #1
brokenrobot
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Tied and soldered spokes?

What is the advantage to tying and soldering spokes at the cross?

Thanks!

-chris
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Old 04-18-05, 07:17 PM   #2
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its highly controversial. SOme track bikes have it done. Its said that it gives added stiffness for a rear wheel. But i believe Jobst brandt or somebody says its not, so its very much a toss up. I think if your looking for stiff, look for a rim with a high cross section which allows high spoke tension. And thicker spokes as well
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Old 04-18-05, 10:10 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brokenrobot
What is the advantage to tying and soldering spokes at the cross?
Jack all.

The old thought experiment says that it immobilizes the spokes at the crossing and effectlvely extends the flange diameter out to that point. In actual fact, it does nothing of the sort. Torsional and lateral rigidity tests show that tied and soldered spokes add nothing in the way of stiffness. While we're at it, high flanges are likewise not so useful.
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Old 04-18-05, 11:33 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brokenrobot
What is the advantage to tying and soldering spokes at the cross?
You should search on this subject as it has been discussed regularly. One comment that I have seen that actually makes sense is that if you break a spoke (which should normally be at the elbow) it will stay in place. That being said, if your wheel has been well made broken spokes should not ever be a problem. Another way to look at this is that it creates (well, sort of) a second, outer hub of a considerably larger diameter. Arguments for, or against, larger diameter hubs can be found in plenty of other threads. Good practice for your soldering technique and a huge sink for your time ;-)
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Old 04-19-05, 06:56 AM   #5
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I agree with all of the above. Recent published testing shows this technique offers little if any change in the side-to-side stiffness of a wheel. I have also read that it keeps broken spokes from banging around.
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Old 04-19-05, 09:44 AM   #6
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http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/tied-soldered.html
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Old 04-19-05, 09:48 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brokenrobot
What is the advantage to tying and soldering spokes at the cross?

Thanks!

-chris
Aesthetics

Enjoy
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Old 04-19-05, 05:59 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by bostontrevor
While we're at it, high flanges are likewise not so useful.
Not in this regard, perhaps, but replacing a drive side broken spoke is much easier.
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Old 04-19-05, 06:16 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bostontrevor
Jack all.

The old thought experiment says that it immobilizes the spokes at the crossing and effectlvely extends the flange diameter out to that point. In actual fact, it does nothing of the sort. Torsional and lateral rigidity tests show that tied and soldered spokes add nothing in the way of stiffness. While we're at it, high flanges are likewise not so useful.
I thought I read somewhere that Shimano did a test of some kind and showed that the high flange hubs did not increase stiffness. There was an explanation, do you know that one? I thought the flanges them selves flexed ?
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Old 04-19-05, 07:08 PM   #10
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Well I think tied and soldiered spokes work as does my wheel builder who has been at it for over 20 years. I'm a huge guy and I got 5 years and thousands of miles out of my rear wheel which was t@s, with NO truing ever. The hub finaly wore out. It's not done for Aesthetics as it looks like crap.
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Old 04-19-05, 07:18 PM   #11
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its a tough call. SOme say it works and some say its BS. I know Gerd Schraner likes it, he describes the method in his book. It makes sense i think.
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Old 04-19-05, 08:30 PM   #12
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Some say tie and soldering spreads load across two spokes rather than just one. It is definitely good at stopping spokes banging around when broken. Remember, not all spoke breaks are caused by poor wheel building. Other riders putting a pedal in your front wheel for example.

In my opinion there is a subtle difference in feel between tied and soldered and standard wheels. I like them! In any case, it can't hurt to tie and solder wheels, it adds neglible weight and is a good idea if you race, to help keep broken spokes from banging around.
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Old 04-19-05, 08:37 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bostontrevor
While we're at it, high flanges are likewise not so useful.
How come low flange disc hubs don't exist then?

(I'm not trying to stir up *****, seriously, I don't know why!)
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Old 04-19-05, 08:45 PM   #14
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i just read that some riders in this years paris-roubaix had tied and soldered rear wheels in case of spoke breakage. in a race like that stopping to change a wheel could be a deciding factor.
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Old 04-19-05, 08:48 PM   #15
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I presume you mean disc brakes, not aero disc, yeah? I'm going to guess it's so you can actually replace a brake-side spoke without removing the rotor...or even lace it up for that matter.

As to "some say it works and some say it's BS", those who say it works have never actually proven this. I also say the sky is green and down is up, but it doesn't seem to get me far. The fact is, it's an idea that common sense tells us should work. Unfortunately common sense is all too common and sometimes it just doesn't pan out.

There is a downside too: while it keeps the spoke from going berzerker and thrashing around in your wheel (has anyone ever actually had this problem?), installing that new spoke is gonna be real tough unless you untie the remaining spoke first.
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Old 04-19-05, 09:46 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bostontrevor

There is a downside too: while it keeps the spoke from going berzerker and thrashing around in your wheel (has anyone ever actually had this problem?), installing that new spoke is gonna be real tough unless you untie the remaining spoke first.
I've had broken spokes thrash around numerous times, track racing in particular. Cutting the tie is a 10 second job.
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