Banzai

Recently converted a bike to an Alfine 8 (501) IGH hub. I've been less than thrilled with the product, and that opinion/experience started before I even rode it.

Setup: Alfine 8 rear hub, Alfine chain tensioner, JTek bar end shifter.

The wheel built up fine, just like any other wheel that carries a slug of lead in the hub shell, but imagine my frustration when I went back to the box of parts to discover that the counter-rotation washers aren't included! In other words, the product is useless without purchasing an additional small parts kit, something that hadn't even dawned on me to look into since Shimano is typically much better when it comes to packaging together a useful product.

After a frustrating wait while I cursed the Big S, the parts arrived. Brilliant! Wheel installed, let's cable it up and go for a spin! Oh, wait a second; the small parts package that I bought doesn't include the little nut that clamps to the cable! YGBSM!

Another wait. Starting to eff-ing hate this thing. But it finally arrives, I cable it, and go ride.

First ride; nice...works well. About 5 miles in I need to readjust the tension, which is to be expected. Oh, but then again 5 miles later. And again the next day. And again.

Wait a second, it's just slipping and skipping all the time even though the little yellow marks line up exactly right! So, it's not my cable tension anymore.

So now, despite re-cabling, and setting the tension as precisely as possible, the thing is constantly skipping. It make a bad sound, and the cranks will "slip" like they're free spinning before re-engaging with an awful click/clunk/scrape, only to slip again. 5th (direct drive) is the worst; free spinning with a ratchet sound.

If I play around with the shifting; up down and back again, sometimes it will settle. It does alright if I only pedal gingerly. Really, really gingerly. And no, I don't shift under load.

This system seems ideally suited to tooling around the neighborhood at very slow speeds, at very low power outputs. I'm not exactly a power-rider either...I'm 138 lb Cat 5 pack fodder. But I cannot trust this hub to commute on. Certainly can't trust it in the weather.

Now I know why derailer systems are still ubiquitous, and haven't been replaced by IGHs. They are far more reliable, easier to operate, easier to maintain...basically do everything better. Soon it will be back to the workshop to pull this wheel apart and rebuild on a technology that works. Too bad.

zacster

I like my 10 speed dyna-sys on my commuter bike. XT for the derailleurs, Deore for the shifters. It shifts effortlessly and accurately, and I can do multiple shifts in either direction. I built it all up myself, including the wheel. The front is a Shimano dynamo hub, so I'm using the opposite end of the IGH.

I thought about doing both, but I didn't think I wanted the IGH after using one on Citibike. I like having 30 gears, although I barely ever use the middle ring in the front, and never ever use the granny gear. NYC is mostly flat after all and that bike never leaves Brooklyn, Manhattan, and very rarely Queens. It is total overkill, but the shifting is so smooth and quiet and I would recommend it to anyone looking for an upgrade. I didn't pay much either as all the parts were sourced dirt cheap on eBay or by checking the online shops.

Mr IGH

Always love posts where OP doesn't ask for help, they already know the item sucks and they're here to vent. I'm good for 300+ watts for 5 minutes and weigh 220lbs. I run my Alfine with 26x23 on a mountain bike in the Rockies. Yup, Alfine sucks!

mconlonx

I commuted on a Nexus 8sp for two years with nary an issue or problem. Did the ATF soak once for service and again before I sold the bike on. I also set up a customer's bike with the JTek shifter and it worked flawlessly.

They don't come with anti-rotation washers because they can't know what kind of dropout the hub will be going into. Vertical? Horizontal? Angled?

I bet if you bought the Shimano shifter instead of the JTek, it would have come with the cable end nut. Part of the vicissitudes of going aftermarket.

If things aren't working out, you could certainly place a warranty claim. You sure you got the setup correct, with the correct routing of the cable around the hub hardware...?

ijsbrand

Where millions of people around the world have no problem at all with their Nexus or Alfine IGH, you sir are the enlightened one, knowing they simply cannot work.

So we bow to your superior knowledge.

But if you even hadn't considered this beforehand, could it not be your craftmanship and preparation is a little underwhelming?

Banzai

I already admitted to not researching, in advance, the incomplete product. My alibi is that Shimano is typically so much better about packaging, that this both took me by surprise and was very, very irritating. This is the first Shimano product I've ever purchased where it didn't include all the parts needed to make it work. And then top it off with the fact that the extra parts kit STILL didn't include every part I needed.

Otherwise, I'm all ears. I have a lot of time and money sunk into this, and would LOVE for it to work. So please enlighten me, and I will certainly bow to your superior knowledge.

What I offer is that I am a very good, and experienced, bike mechanic. My friends bring their bikes to me rather than the shop because my work is simply better, with more attention to detail. I only ride my own handbuilt wheels. My stable of four bikes is a silently and smoothly running machine up until this hub, which I have set up thrice now.

If anyone offers the suggestion that a hub with less than 100 miles on it will need to be stripped down and "serviced" somehow to make it work, then I will return to my initial verdict.

But, aside from that, inputs are welcome. Glad to have brought out the IGH fans, and I hope that your expertise matches your enthusiasm. It will certainly help me out.

AnkleWork

Did you really buy that from Shimano? Most of the Shimano IGHs I see for sale appear to be packaged for installers or OEMs who presumably specify the detail parts based on their application.

Banzai

From an online retailer, a very good one. The hub was in retail Shimano packaging, not an OEM package of some form.

The big S is usually so much better about selling a usefully packaged and complete product that it just never occurred to me that something as integral as the anti-rotation nuts would not be included. Or any small part, for that matter. Since the hub is impossible to use without those parts, it irks me that it was sold that way. It's worse than "batteries not included".

Banzai

I'd be with you on the anti-rotation nut rationale, except that the small parts package that I had to buy included all of the above...so why not just bundle it like that with the hub?

I'm 99% that the setup is correct. It is the first IGH I've set up, but I'm a capable mechanic, and I've read and re-read the instructions, and watched a couple of videos. It really doesn't seem that cosmic, you just need to make sure that the steps are done in the correct order.

Shahmatt

This sounds familiar to me. I had a similar problem with my Nexus 7 speed hub. Turned out the problem was the shifter cable. It was too long and, rather than shorten it as I should have done, I did a loop with mine. This caused there to be resistance between the internal wire and the housing, most likely in the loop area, and hence tension between the shifter and hub to be much different causing problems.

Is your cable too long? Do you loop yours? A straighter connection may solve your problem.

fietsbob

I've Been OK with Both my Rohloff and the new NIG Sturmey AW3/BSR.

Batavus

+1 on it being a cable issue. Do you run full length housing? The cable run has to be as smooth as possible with no sharp bends or kinks.

How is the angle of the cassette joint? I've seen numerous bikes where the housing makes a sharp bend where it exits the cassette joint in order for it to clear the chain stays, causing shift issues.

Banzai

I will investigate these issues. Thanks for the input.

It's possible that cable bend is the problem. There are no bends in the housing that I would consider at all problematic for a derailler setup (I'm meticulous about only gentle curves on my deraillers) but maybe this system is more finicky than I anticipated?

I'm not running full-length housing, but I did some research before making that decision, and found numerous posts on this forum and others stating that full-length housing was not at all necessary. But, I'll give it a go. I want to get this fixed.

SquidPuppet

Not surprising to me.

Shimano coaster brake hubs (CB-E110) are even worse. They come without the "Trim Kit" and can NOT be purchased complete. An unsuspecting buyer would suffer the same fate as you. The kit includes a required drive side dust cover, a snap ring required to hold the cog in place, the cog, a brake strap for fixing the brake arm to the chain stay, and the axle nuts.

The hub bearings come criminally over tightened and the brake shoes and clutch mechanism are over packed with an inappropriate (too heavy/sticky) grease that causes significant and unnecessary drag.

For satisfactory operation to be achieved, a complete dis-assembly, cleaning and re-grease are required.

Once that's done, they function fantastically.

Sorry I cant help you on the IGH.

/rant/vent

FastJake

This is one of the reasons I don't run IGH. They're supposed to be the "bombproof zero maintenance blah blah blah" but yet they rely on a rather finicky cable/housing system. And people have issues like the OP is having. I like derailer gearing but my year round commuter is fixed gear which requires (almost) no maintenance. It could go to truly no maintenance if I ever get around to fitting a full chain-case to it.

I had IGH on a commuter once. Granted, it was an old 3-speed, but I just didn't find it that useful. The gearing range wasn't very wide compared to the added cabling and weight and annoying rear wheel installation/removal.

Anyway, good luck OP! Hopefully the IGH faithful can help you fix your issue.

Dan Burkhart 

I was one of the first dealers on the continent to stock the Alfine when it first hit the market. I had already sold and installed a couple when Sheldon was still posting about their anticipation of the arrival of the first units.
I also sold some of the first OEM bikes equipped with them (Brodie Ocho).
I remember having the conversation with the Shimano rep about why they were not shipped as complete kits. The explanation was that small parts kits were customized with anti rotation washers specific to the application, and a choice of cog size.
When the aftermarket buyers started realizing they did not have everything they needed to do the installation, the demand for those kits went through the roof, and I ordered as many as I could get, and sold them as fast as I could get them, mailing lots of them right across the country, even to bike shops.
As for functional issues, I never saw any that could not be corrected by ensuring smooth cable run and proper adjustment.
I sold one line of bikes that was particularly problematic in this regard with the Nexus 8. Re routing the cable housing to eliminate a tight bend from the cassette joint solved all those problems.
The only bike I can think of that actually had to have the wheel sent to Shimano to resolve was one I sold over the phone and shipped to Vancouver. The buyer had a local shop do the assembly, and they botched it. I don't even remember how they did that now, but I remember it was bad.

dscheidt

It's a set up problem. It's not a maintenance problem. If you set the cable properly, and properly adjust the little nut (tight! and scrape any teflon off the cable, so it doesn't slip. Exactly 100 mm from the end of the housing, make sure the ferule is set in place.) properly, and adjust the cable so the marks line up properly in fourth gear, it should require no adjustment for the life of the cable. A full housing set up is a good idea, as well. This isn't any harder than a derailleur set up, but it's different.

FBinNY 

I won't get into the Alfine quality debate, but I've long felt that Shimano is missing the point in their IGH offering, by trying to compete with derailleurs on their turf. Derailleurs excel in offering wide range gearing options at weights and reliabilities will be hard to beat.

IGH is best suited to urban and utility riding, where the all-weather benefits show out to best advantage. These applications usually don't call for the wide range and small incremental steps we look to derailleurs for.

I believe that Shimano could do itself a favor by focusing on simple, reliable 3,4,or 5s hubs, which can be lighter, simpler and more durable than the current versions are. They can expand the market by offering those in 3 versions; narrow range giving 3-5 close steps for flat terrain, medium and wide for hillier areas.

Of course there are those who like IGH and want the range of steps that derailleurs offer, but I don't believe they're as large a segment than the "I just want something simple to bop around town" segment. Focusing on 7 and 8s (and more) pushes the price points higher, and if reliability suffers in the process, they fail in the one respect that drew people to them in the first place.

fietsbob

in the case of Rohloff , lots of math went into the design , to get their 13.6% gear increase spacing ..

or each gear going downward is 86.4% of the next higher one ..

In a freewheel or cassette the tooth count difference can be bigger jumps to make the differences between lower gears larger rather than smaller ..

The reliable 3 speed uses 1 gear set in low its 3/4 of the 1:1 , and in high, its 4/3rds.. 0.75, 1, 1.33 ..

MichaelW

My Alfine setup has been almost trouble free since 2006.
I had some issues with grease sticking the gears at -10C, cured by switching to annual oil-bath.
I have changed the cable once, with no issues.
It is probably not a piece of kit for performance hounds, but serves just fine for everyday commuting and utility riding in the city.
I used to play my downtube friction-levers like a concert violinist, but things are so much easier and I am lazier now. Alfine frees up my concentration so I can pay more attention to the traffic, road-conditions, pretty girls, whatever.

Rowan

I think you will find the IGH market for Shimano and obviously Rohloff is driven in Europe, not the US or elsewhere. Looking at bikes used for utility purposes in Europe, many are equipped with Nexus and similar hubs. But then, those bikes are also somewhat different in design to the typical diamond frame that is marketed outside Europe.

I attended a Velocity conference in Paris in the early 2000s, and there was a presentation by the European manager of Shimano. It was eye-opening to see him on the one hand talk of product that was virtually unheard of outside Europe, and struggle to discuss another product we take for granted (don't ask me what they were, for the life of me I can't remember, but for such a powerful distribution manager, it was the reactions to the questions that stick in my mind).

Rowan

I can do the same using integrated brake and shifter levers controlling a derailleur system... and still be in the right gear.

FBinNY 

I agree completely, which is the core of my point. The utility/commuter market isn't as driven by more gears, so rather than chase Rohloff who's built himself a nice secure niche, Shimano can focus on the larger segment, where cost and reliability are more important.

Mark Kelly 

That's not how maths works: it's 88.0% (1/1.136).

Reynolds 

Cable is critical on these hubs. Better start with low friction cable and housing, full housing, correct length, no sharp bends, square housing ends/ferrules, light oil or not oil at all, to ensure proper hub operation. Gear setup is very easy and shouldn't pose any problems for someone with even minimal mechanic skills. No "tricks" installing this hub, just be sure to tighten the axle nuts up to specs (this is rather tight) to avoid axle rotation under load.