Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Results 1 to 12 of 12
  1. #1
    Newbie
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    2
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Nightmare upgading to V-Brakes - shifter problems...

    What could be simpler than upgrading my bike (LX groupset circa 1993) to V-Brakes (at the same time as upgrading/replacing the frame). Also upgraded the F/R der's with M581 '05LX spec. As it turns out, I'm having a bit of a nightmare.

    I changed the LX canti's to LX V's to discover that I can no longer use my 94LX levers. Of course, these are combi's and replacing the levers means replacing the shifters too. Sure I thought, all I need to do is replace my shifters with new LX shifters (to keep the LX badge).

    Problem is that 9sp was unheard of in 94 and apparently new LX shifters won't work with my 7sp setup. The last thing I want to do is switch to 9sp because that would mean replacing my rear hub (or at least the freehub) and probably my chain and chainwheel too. (I bought a new 7/8sp chain for the upgrade but haven't fitted it yet)

    I'm told that STX-RC shifters are my only hope of keeping the 7sp setup but when cabling up the gears I discover that my RD is sprung the opposite way to my old RD and that the display on the shifter now says "7" when I'm in first - what gives?

    Christ, all I wanted to do was put modern brakes on my new frame 'cause they look nicer.

    Will my RD work with my 7sp setup even though it was probably designed for a 9sp?

    Also I noticed that the M570 LX V-brakes ('04) seem to have the parallel push linkage for the blocks whereas that newer M580 LX V-brakes ('05) have fixed blocks - is this not a bit of a backward step?

    all the best,
    Guy Carnegie

  2. #2
    Senior Member sydney's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    9,428
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by GCarnegi
    What could be simpler than upgrading my bike (LX groupset circa 1993) to V-Brakes (at the same time as upgrading/replacing the frame). Also upgraded the F/R der's with M581 '05LX spec. As it turns out, I'm having a bit of a nightmare.

    I changed the LX canti's to LX V's to discover that I can no longer use my 94LX levers. Of course, these are combi's and replacing the levers means replacing the shifters too. Sure I thought, all I need to do is replace my shifters with new LX shifters (to keep the LX badge).

    Problem is that 9sp was unheard of in 94 and apparently new LX shifters won't work with my 7sp setup. The last thing I want to do is switch to 9sp because that would mean replacing my rear hub (or at least the freehub) and probably my chain and chainwheel too. (I bought a new 7/8sp chain for the upgrade but haven't fitted it yet)

    I'm told that STX-RC shifters are my only hope of keeping the 7sp setup but when cabling up the gears I discover that my RD is sprung the opposite way to my old RD and that the display on the shifter now says "7" when I'm in first - what gives?

    Christ, all I wanted to do was put modern brakes on my new frame 'cause they look nicer.

    Will my RD work with my 7sp setup even though it was probably designed for a 9sp?

    Also I noticed that the M570 LX V-brakes ('04) seem to have the parallel push linkage for the blocks whereas that newer M580 LX V-brakes ('05) have fixed blocks - is this not a bit of a backward step?

    all the best,
    Guy Carnegie
    There are both low normal and high normal(old style ) RDs available. A '9 speed' RD will work with 7.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Retro Grouch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    St Peters, Missouri
    My Bikes
    Rans Enduro Sport, Hase Kettweisel Tandem, Merin Bear Valley beater bike
    Posts
    23,105
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    It sounds to me like you've been Shimano'ed. Who'd ever think that such a simple thing, like combining the brake lever and shifter together on one clamp could have such far reaching consequences?

    There is a partial solution. Buy a 9-speed cassette and throw away the biggest cog (you'll need a 9-speed chain too). Now you have an 8-speed cassette with 9-speed spacing that will fit onto your existing 7-speed freehub body and rear wheel. Now the 9-speed shifter that you had to buy to go with your new brakes will shift 8 gears in back and you don't have to buy a whole new rear wheel.

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    156
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    cant you just take the shifter pods of the old STX-rc levers and find yourself a set of standalone handlebar clamps... it'll work fine

  5. #5
    Year-round cyclist
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Montréal (Québec)
    Posts
    3,023
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Why did you downgrade from cantis to v-brakes?

    Well-adjusted cantis are as good and as effective as v-brakes, and as you have discovered, brake levers and briefters for road bars are designed with sidepull brakes in mind. Cantis can easily be adjusted to mimic the cable pull necessary for sidepull-compatible levers, but v-brakes cannot.

    You have three solutions:

    - Install bar-end shifters or downtube shifters, and use Dia Compe 287 V levers.
    - Keep your STI briefters, but install Travel Agents on the cables.
    - Re-install your old brakes, adjust them properly.

    In all cases, switching to Kool Stop Salmon pads will do a lot to improve performance.
    Michel Gagnon
    Montréal (Québec, Canada)

  6. #6
    I drink your MILKSHAKE Raiyn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    St. Petersburg, FL
    My Bikes
    2003 Specialized Rockhopper FSR Comp, 1999 Specialized Hardrock Comp FS, 1971 Schwinn Varsity
    Posts
    15,082
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Michel Gagnon
    Why did you downgrade from cantis to v-brakes?
    How retro grouch can you get?
    Quote Originally Posted by Michel Gagnon
    Well-adjusted cantis are as good and as effective as v-brakes,
    Yes but to the average Joe V-brakes are FAR easier to get to a "well adjusted" state.
    Quote Originally Posted by Michel Gagnon
    and as you have discovered, brake levers and briefters for road bars are designed with sidepull brakes in mind. Cantis can easily be adjusted to mimic the cable pull necessary for sidepull-compatible levers, but v-brakes cannot.
    What bringing a road setup (in reality you're talking about a cyclocross setup) into the conversation has to do with the price of tea in China or the OP's question I'll never know
    Quote Originally Posted by Michel Gagnon

    You have three solutions:

    - Install bar-end shifters or downtube shifters, and use Dia Compe 287 V levers.
    It's a mountain bike
    Quote Originally Posted by Michel Gagnon
    - Keep your STI briefters, but install Travel Agents on the cables.
    Again mountain bike He doesn't NEED Travel Agents as he's trying to use a V-brake lever to operate a V-brake
    Quote Originally Posted by Michel Gagnon
    - Re-install your old brakes, adjust them properly
    Why? He's already spent the money.
    Quote Originally Posted by Michel Gagnon
    In all cases, switching to Kool Stop Salmon pads will do a lot to improve performance.
    Wow go spend MORE money

  7. #7
    Bike Junkie
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    238
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Personally I like the 8 speed cassette with 9 speed spacing idea. It is quite an elegant hack. On the other hand, keeping the existing levers (which don't pull enough cable for v-brakes) and installing travel agents would likely be the easiest and cheapest solution.

    Bar end shifters on a mountain bike would certainly be the most entertaining "solution". :-)

    -s

  8. #8
    I drink your MILKSHAKE Raiyn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    St. Petersburg, FL
    My Bikes
    2003 Specialized Rockhopper FSR Comp, 1999 Specialized Hardrock Comp FS, 1971 Schwinn Varsity
    Posts
    15,082
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by slider
    Personally I like the 8 speed cassette with 9 speed spacing idea. It is quite an elegant hack. On the other hand, keeping the existing levers (which don't pull enough cable for v-brakes) and installing travel agents would likely be the easiest and cheapest solution.

    Bar end shifters on a mountain bike would certainly be the most entertaining "solution". :-)

    -s
    I'm not a big fan of using Travel Agents in their "doubler" role. While it does work V-brake levers can be dirt cheap if one knows where to look. Having said that do I run a set of Travel Agents in the "pulley" configuration in lieu of a noodle. I get less friction and the Travel Agents don't rust like my old noodles did (On a bike stored indoors no less)

  9. #9
    Newbie
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    2
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I like the 9spd cassette option (using it as an 8spd). One question though, My hub is M565 with separate freehub. Could I replace the freehub and cassette and get full 9spd? Would I need to change chain / chainwheel / bottom braket in the process?

    To get things clear, my full system WAS 1994 M565 groupset (apart from front hub - does anyone know where I could get a matching FHub?) That includes FD, RD, RHub, brifters, Chainset etc.

    I built the bike myself when I worked in a bike shop in 1994 - I didn't have to pay for the groupset then as I claimed for it under warranty - like you do when you work in a bike shop . I built the back wheel round an M565 LX hub on a Mavic MA40 700C rim (hybrid bike). The front has the same rim but a cheap hub (and rusty spokes)

    Thing is the frame (carrera crosstracks 22.5") was always too big for me and last week I got hold of a TREK UAV2 frame in the right size (18"). I bought a set of M570 LX V-Brakes AND a set of M581 LV V-Brakes, although I prefer the 570's as they have the parallel-push mechanism (there's probably a proper name for it but that'll do for now) where this years LX brakes do not.

    At that point I find out that I can't use my levers (M565) with the new brakes and need to upgrade them to V-Brake levers (which I haven't bought yet).

    The seat tube on my new frame is bigger so I replaced my Front mech with a new LX (M581) 34.9. The bike also uses top pull instead of bottom pull so I had no option but to replace. Of course at that pont I also bought a matching RD which I discovered last night is "Rapid Rise".

    On the way home from work yesterday I bought a set of STX-RC shifters as apparently these are the only shifters available now which will work with my 7-spd system. I fitted them although they really look crap, and because of the Rapid Rise RD the gear indicator is reversed. I hate Gear indicators!

    I guess all I need now are a set of LX/XT levers to get a working system, but I can't help thinking that I've been short changed by having to get crap shifters.

    All the best,
    Guy Carnegie

  10. #10
    Year-round cyclist
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Montréal (Québec)
    Posts
    3,023
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Guy,

    Are you using straight bars or road bars? From the description of your problems, I thought you were using a bicycle with road bars.

    BTW, Raiyn, there was no way from the original posts I could see what type of bicycle he was using, except maybe by comparing part numbers with old Shimano catalogues. The reference to LX drivetrain could as well apply to a touring bicycle, like mine, for example. So if the information about straight bars was posted somewhere, I didn't see it and apologize.

    Still, keeping the original brakes and brake levers and installing better brake pads might solve the issue of Guy who wants "better brakes". Whether or not it turns out to be the cheaper solution depends on what had been invested so far.
    Michel Gagnon
    Montréal (Québec, Canada)

  11. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    156
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    another option if you havnet bought the levers is to buy the levers desgiend to work with the shifters attached... I know at least shimano shifter pods could be swapped from teh seperate band clamp to teh camp attached to the levers. So you could just swap the old LX pods onto V levers... but I dont know if this is still true with the new "STI" levers

  12. #12
    I drink your MILKSHAKE Raiyn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    St. Petersburg, FL
    My Bikes
    2003 Specialized Rockhopper FSR Comp, 1999 Specialized Hardrock Comp FS, 1971 Schwinn Varsity
    Posts
    15,082
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Michel Gagnon

    BTW, Raiyn, there was no way from the original posts I could see what type of bicycle he was using, except maybe by comparing part numbers with old Shimano catalogues. The reference to LX drivetrain could as well apply to a touring bicycle, like mine, for example. So if the information about straight bars was posted somewhere, I didn't see it and apologize.
    Quote Originally Posted by GCarnegi
    <snip> I can no longer use my 94LX levers.
    Having LX brake levers as the original part screams flat bar to me. From his other post it soumds like he's building a flat bar 'cross bike. No big we were both wrong to a degree

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •