Fallingwater

I've been given for free a MTB with this cassette. It works fine (as much as something with such a huge jump can be called "fine", but let's not digress), but the wheel has broken spokes on the drive side. In order to replace them I have to take the cassette off, and the tool I have in my kit is ever-so-slightly too big to fit in the splines, despite having the correct number and spacing.

I currently live in a small town in Italy with no place where I could feasibly buy such tools; the most you find in stores around here are brake pads and pedals, and you have to struggle even to find tires. As a result I'm looking for alternate ways of achieving this.

I notice that the spline socket thing has a ring on it, and the ring has two fairly deep dimples.



Could I perhaps fit in the dimples the prongs from a pair of rosary/bentnose pliers and unscrew the whole thing like that? Or is the ring not coupled to the splines?

Any other suggestions? I'd rather avoid having to order online the damn tool as I'd like to get the whole thing done by tomorrow and mail orders take forever to get here.

Edit: I checked eBay and they want about fifteen euro for what's essentially a splined wrench head. I'd very much want to avoid such an expense!

HillRider

That's not a cassette, it's a freewheel and the "ring with the dimples" is the bearing cover/adjustment. It is not strong enough to use as a remover by the punch and hammer method or with a pin spanner if the freewheel is as tight as most are. It unthreads clockwise (left-handed threads) and if you remove it the entire rotating outer shell, cogs and bearings come off leaving the stationary inner core. That can be used as a destructive-removal technique by disassembling the freewheel and using a pipe wrench to unscrew the core from the wheel. Of course, if you remove it that way, it's no longer usable.

That freewheel should take a standard Shimano freewheel tool and I'm surprised no shop in your area has one as they were very common.

SkyDog75

That's a freewheel, not a cassette. You're going to need the proper splined tool to remove it intact, such as a Park Tool FR-1.2. If you don't mind destroying the freewheel, you can use those dimples to disassemble and remove it:

Park Tool Co. » ParkTool Blog » Freewheel- destructive removal

Fallingwater

Right, freewheel - sorry, I went reading about the difference between the two systems but obviously haven't figured it out yet.

No, I can't destroy it - I need it functional for when I put back together the wheel.

I went looking for that tool and that's what they want fifteen euro for.

I guess I could always take a Dremel to the tool I do have and make it narrow enough to fit - at a glance I shouldn't have to take off more than half a millimetre of material... I'm not even sure if it's a problem with standard sizes or if they've just made it too big, as the kit is a cheapo one and I never expected much quality out of it. It's surprising that the splines are exactly as they should be, but it's just a teensy bit too wide.

SkyDog75

A freewheel includes the ratcheting mechanism. With a cassette, that's part of the hub. The cassette is just a pile of metal cogs that slide on.

A splined tool is generally used to remove both, but with a cassette, it just removes the lockring so you can slide the cassette off. The whole freewheel assembly unscrews from the hub when you turn it by the splines.

My guess is that it's simply the wrong tool, meant to fit some other freewheel or cassette. There are a number of different freewheel and cassette tools with different sizes and spline patterns. You can give it a shot and try modifying your existing tool, but you're probably going to ruin the tool for its intended use and may ruin it altogether. Buying the right tool is certainly the easiest route and most likely to succeed.

dsbrantjr

Unless you are very skilled or lucky you are likely to fail at doing this and perhaps even ruin the freewheel splines with the tool rendering it un-removable. Get the right tool.

HillRider

I wonder if the OP has a Campy freewheel/lockring tool. They are very similar to the Shimano tools having the same number of splines. they appear identical but are not interchangeable.

Fallingwater

No idea, but it's possible. I got two tools in the kit - the one I talk about and another one, much wider, with many more splines. Here are two clicky pics:



Keep in mind that this is Italy, and we like to be, uh, special about bicycle stuff - like, we have our own valves that nobody else uses - so it's possible there are more widely used tools than Shimano ones here, and that's why the kit has that.

I'm thinking of leaving this tool as it is and just modifying a suitably sized wrench socket - would be much cheaper to replace if I screwed it up.

Retro Grouch 

It's likely to take a LOT of torque to get that freewheel off. Since you don't want to destroy the freewheel, I wouldn't even attempt to remove it without the correct tool.

alcjphil

That smaller tool is a lockring tool, not a freewheel remover. They are not the same thing. Even in Italy, Shimano components and tools are very common. Freewheels require a lot of torque to remove, you absolutely need the correct tool to get them off. I have seen freewheels that took huge amounts of force to remove, no makeshift tool is going to work. Every major bike tool maker makes a tool that can be used to remove your freewheel. Park tools are common in North America, maybe not so much in Italy. Cyclus and VAR tools may be easier to find where you live. Any bike shop anywhere would have the needed tool. You only need the tool to remove the freewheel, you can thread it back on by hand. Perhaps if there is a local shop you could take the wheel in and have them remove the freewheel, only takes a minute or so

Fallingwater

Ah. This is interesting, I thought I needed the tool to put it back together as well. I'll take a stroll to the nearest bike shop, thanks.

Darth Lefty 

Sometimes you need to take the axle out because the cone nut is in the way of getting the socket into the splines. This is definitely true of the 1970's Regina/Schwinn J/Shimano freewheels and definitely not true of the cassette lockrings, but the remover for this one is in between and I'm not sure if you'd have to do it or not. I just last night went through the rigamarole of getting the axle out of a wheel only to find that none of my removers fit the freewheel I wanted off.

dedhed

This - I've worked on bikes that need an uncommon or very old style remover and just pay the shop $5 to remove it rather than invest in a tool I may never use again.

HillRider

You've got to pick an older shop too. A recently opened LBS is unlikely to have a wide spectrum of odd-ball freewheel removers.

Reynolds 

I've removed a number of freewheels by disassembling them and then using a strap of aluminum stock wrapped around the center to hold it in a vise, using the rim as a lever. The center part wasn't damaged at all and I reassembled and reused the freewheel.

dabac

NThe bigger tool is to remove cartridge bottom brackets.

Are you talking about Presta?
Once you step away from department store bikes, there's nothing rare about those. And the Dunlop/Woods are real common in Scandinavia.

dedhed

Good point, fortunately I don't have to pay much attention to this as I live in an area with some older shops. I had Ben's (since 1928) do the last one.

Fallingwater

So I brought it to the shop. The mechanic swore at it for a while with the freewheel wrench, then gave up and declared it stuck. Insisting carried the risk of breaking the wrench.

What the heck do I do now?

fitftw

Did he use the Park Tool FR-1 and a chainwhip? It should have easily come loose.

jimc101

The OP has a Shimano Freewheel, just about as mainstream as you can get with bikes, a LBS shouldn't be opening it's doors if it hasn't got a tool for what is a very basic repair. Could understand if it was an an obscure long defunct manufacture from the 1970's, but not with a current Shimano spec item.

jimc101

Find a capable LBS, with freewheels, if stuck the simplest way (which my LBS uses) is to stick the tool in a vice, and then put the wheel on top of the tool, and turn, this way works, as you get far more leverage on it than if just using a wrench.

A vice is another basic tool any good LBS should have fitted in their workshop.

CliffordK

THAT WOULD BE A PROBLEM!!!!

You don't need a chainwhip for removing a freewheel.

I like to lock my tools down with the quick release. Then either the biggest Crescent (Adjustable) wrench I can find, or perhaps I've used the vice trick once or twice.

You might also look up "Z-Bend Spokes". Or, perhaps Fiberfix. It would get you back on the road.

Looigi

FWIW, those Megarange freewheels are amazingly cheap...like $12 for the whole thing, so destroying one taking it off would be no great loss, but I'd get the tool and do it right. The tool is ~$8.

Fallingwater

I don't know if he used a FR-1. The wheel was brought to the mechanic's room in the rear of the shop. I didn't get to watch the dude do his thing.

The way he explained it, the freewheel is stuck fast, and as he applied more torque the splined wrench/tool was starting to move inside the hole as the freewheel's splines were being flattened. He became worried that the tool would lose its splines as well, and stopped.

I'll try another shop, hoping the splines haven't degraded beyond usefulness. If that fails I guess I'll try to find a scrap mountain bike with a serviceable back wheel, which seems cheaper than destructively disassembling the freewheel and buying a new one. There are enough old rusted bikes around here I might get it for free, even.

Huh. I had a look and apparently a whole megarange is about as expensive as the tool (I can't find it for less than fifteen euro, which is about twice as much as $8). I'll keep this in mind if the scrap bike thing doesn't work out.

rmfnla

This is the way to do it.

If your "mechanic" tried it with a wrench he needs to find another line of work and you need to find a better mechanic!

BTW, you can get the correct tool on eBay for under $2:

Cassette Flywheel Freewheel Remover Removal Repair Tool for Bike Bicycle Shimano | eBay

I normally do not go for cheap tools but this is a simple one and it sounds like you will not be using it very much...