cale

In defense of the stoners, you think that ear ring was comfortable to stretch into place? JK

Dave Cutter

I meant no disrespect to the stoners. But in one shop particularly.... some of the guys reek of weed. It doesn't inspire confidence.... but they seem like nice guys and serious cyclists.

cale

Right! Better than a Boeing plant that reeks of beer! Haha

molten

Ever compare the rates of
"to build a bike." This be where rates AND skill will vary.

zonatandem

Ain't as easy as you think it is . . .

Gresp15C

Yup. Been there.

Nothing can be absolutely mistake proofed. But having worked with technology for decades, I've learned that it helps a lot to get information from multiple different places. In the case of bikes, I combine my own experience, general mechanical knowledge, and online research. Even when I think that I know how to do something, I often learn a better way by casting a wider net.

Kimmo 

First, they're probably not stoned on the job - it makes it very hard to be quick, and stoned folks are more likely to get scattered if distracted.

But stoners working on your bike is probably a good thing, if the shop's not too busy. Weed makes folks more contemplative, and promotes attention to detail. Plus, it's an established fact that anyone who's been bent even just once is better at thinking outside the box as a result, allowing more inspired solutions to tricky issues.

dabac

Only times I've left my bike to a shop has been when the cost of buying the tool myself has been too high for the expected use. It got that way by sheer necessity - the distance to a good shop. The ones closest just did poor jobs. One broke a rear hub by turning it the wrong way at disassembly. Another accepted to fix a bike damaged in a car accident. They took the job, they took the money, but returned a bike with a frame too warped for the bike to track straight and a wheel that, while round, had spoke tensions so spread that it was nothing more than a rolling time bomb.
It's not too hard to find shops that do perfectly fine for routine repairs. But the thoroughly good ones are rare.

Batavus

When I started looking for an apprenticeship as a mechanic, being an enthusiast was actually what held several shops from hiring me.

One shop told me they didn't want to hire me because I'd have to unlearn a lot of habits in order for me to be taught mechanics the right way (or their way).

I've seen some funky botched jobs by 'enthusiasts' that required doing the job al over again and I've seen near perfect work by other home mechanics.

One thing I learnt pretty quickly was that wrenching in a shop is an entirely different thing than doing your own repairs at home when you have all the time in the world.

I'm still not the quickest out there, but I have learnt to do most repairs within the alotted time frame.

Looigi

For working on bikes, weed might be a PED?

JonathanGennick 

The scenario you describe is part of what drove me toward wrenching. There are no truly "local" shops where I live. When I show up at a shop it means I've taken a half-day of vacation time and thrown down $20 for gasoline. Double those numbers for dropping off a bike and picking it back up later.

Being able to do your own work provides you options. I did recently send some work to a couple of shops because I was pressed for time and lacked the experience and tools to do the specific tasks quickly and easily, whereas they did have the experience and the tools and did good work.

Repetition and experience count for a lot. I do a fair bit of work, but my "field of view" is not what a shop mechanic will see. I'm on my second build this year, begin my third next week, have coached two neighbors in tearing down and rebuilding their BMX-style big-box bikes, have worked on at least five other bikes that come to mind, and coached a friend through his first brake bleed. All these things since May 1. So I'm pretty active, but any shop mechanic still likely sees more in a day or two than I see in a month.

Do I ever do anything better than any of the shops that I visit? I honestly don't even think in those terms. I like to think I do good work in the main, and that I know and acknowledge where I'm weak.

rydabent

It depends on your background and experience. I grew up on a farm and was packing bearing by the time I was 13 or 14. I worked for a computer company for 47 years, and did adjustments down to one ten thousandth.

With all due respect working on a bike is not rocket science. Bikes are really simple machines. Over the years I have bought specific bike tools as needed to work on my own bikes, and those of my sons and neighbors. The biggest point of doing your own maintence if you are capable, is the fact you have all the time in the world to get an adjustment perfect. You are not up against time and money constraints like a bike shop tech is.

steve0257

It depends on the shop, the enthusiast, and what needs to be done. I do most of my own work, but don't hesitate to take it to the shop if it is something I'm not comfortable doing, or if it requires a tool that I'll never need again.

fietsbob

An enthusiast with a Machine Shop?

Perhaps Membership in a Co Operative is the happy Medium,


IDK Your local and who works there, but this one is low key, and the guys that work there work together well ,

combine efforts often , have to do a bunch of improvising with visitors bikes with high end stuff none of the locals buy..
so spares not stocked..

like for tourist-racers competing in a transcontinental competition, commenced yesterday..

dscheidt

That's actually a sign of a good shop. They require specialized tools to do a lot of things, and if you're not a cannodale shop, or a gonzo mountain bike shop, you probably don't have them. (and, I doubt that cannondale make service specs easy to get, either.).
Tell your customer you can't fix it is much better than doing a half-assed job and sending off as fixed. I'd want to know why they didn't tell the customer when it came in, though.

Another advantage of shops is that they have inventory of stuff. Rack doesn't fit with the included hardware? They can dig through the bin of rack parts and spacers and such, and find what's needed. Or they can just test the suitable ones in stock, to see what fits. Same thing with lots of repairs. Hmm, it makes a clicking sound when I pedal. Okay, stick on the stand, and see what the problem is. Could be a pedal bearing, could be the crank, could be the bottom bracket, could be just something needs tightening. Whatever, the shop is likely to have the parts to fix. I don't, unless it's just lubrication. yeah, I can put it on the stand, figure it out, and order them, but that means it's not fixed, and for somethings, means the bike can't be ridden until they come (and I have the time to work on a bike!).

Retro Grouch 

Absolutely!

A bicycle is a simple machine but the devil is in the details. A person with a good mechanical background will eventually master working on bikes but will have some perplexing moments during the process. A less experienced person, but one who has bicycle specific experience, will be able to accomplish most tasks, and do them adequately, much more quickly. The good things about working on your own bikes is you can spend whatever amount of time that it takes to satisfy your personal standards. The good thing that shops have to offer is a plethora of experience for how to solve a particular problem.

deacon mark

Exactly! Bikes are not cars and they are not as someone said The Space Shuttle. Nothing wrong in saying that the LBS have good or even great mechanics, but many I see are younger fellow is college and simply not any to put on a pedestal of wisdom and experience. Some I have heard even say that when they swap a chain out they want to put a new cassette on too. Or the last mechanic at the LBS said the most miles he had seen in a chain was about 3000. I guess he never change my chains which tend to 5000 miles. No disrespect to any mechanic I consider myself on too but it is a craft and art and a science. It does not require a PHD.

Earl Grey

'Better" how?

My RD was set up and maintained by me. I'm familiar with the model and the manufacturer's procedures, can take as a long as I want, have the time to do a test ride, tweak as necessary etc. Consequently, it is well-lubricated, clean, limits set correctly, shifts snappily and runs quietly. How much "better" can it be done?

I'm sure it took me at least ten times as long as a pro wrench would have taken, and if you gave me and a pro an unfamiliar, oddball RD, I have no doubt that she'd have it installed and setup properly while I was still staring at it in confusion.

But for simple, somewhat routine tasks on familiar hardware (assuming you're at least modestly "mechanical"), paying a professional wrench is like paying a professional to mow your lawn. There are many - good - reasons someone might do it, but getting a 'better mowed' lawn is unlikely to be one of them.

gsa103

A shop has to know how to diagnose and repair problems across a wide range of bikes. If you come in complaining about your brakes the shop needs to fix it for ~$50+parts, which means about an hour to diagnose and repair. Just for brakes there's canti, V-brakes, dual pivots, mech. disc and hydro-disc all in common usage. I would expect a shop to fix problems with all of them.

For esoteric things, the enthusiast has the time to learn about how to properly fix it. The example Lefty fork is a perfect example. An enthusiast can spend 10 hrs carefully rebuilding his fork over the weekend. For a shop, that would mean something like a ~$400 labor charge, which no one would pay.

I do almost all my own work, but it's good to recognize when a shop is a better option. For regular repairs, it's worth it to me learn how to do something, because I'll likely do it many times. For some things, the LBS is a much better option, when learning to DIY myself isn't worth the time & effort. I paid a LBS $30 labor to convert my MTB tires to tubeless (non-tubeless rims) for the first time (installing tape, sealing, etc). It was worth it for me because I could rely on their experience to pick and install the proper things needed for the job, and if it didn't go smoothly it's their responsibility to fix it. Doing that job myself for the first time, is definitely going to take several hours. Once they were setup, I knew that I could handle installing new tires, adding sealant, etc. Odds are I'll buy a new bike before I need to change the basic tubeless setup.

cale

A LBS might not have a perfect solution and the devil might be in the details, but when I was getting into bikes as a teen in the seventies I was broke, busy, and distracted. Bike maintenance wouldn't have made it into the top 10 of the things I had to do. So for years I rode around on a bike that I adjusted with an adjustable wrench and a pair of multi-purpose wrenches from the local Schwinn store. It wasn't really "adjusted" at all but I made it work..... from time to time.

It wasn't until I got a bike with aluminum alloy components that I realized that I needed better tools or the parts would get wrecked by my wrench. It was at a crossroads of sorts. I was "into" riding more than ever after getting a lightweight road bike but I was still broke. Making a choice between buying a spoke wrench and something for Friday night's party was a big decision!

I ended up collecting just enough tools to keep my bike running but nothing for a serious repair. For that, there was a bike coop.

For all the collecting of "experiences" I have done, I'd be a lousy shop mechanic today. I'm too particular, I lack finger dexterity I once had, and I remind kids of their dad. Haha I would, however, have made an excellent wrench when I was young.

Earl Grey

Unless you're the type of pervert who actually enjoys wrenching.

Jarrett2

And that's what they call a false equivalence.

SurfNTurf

..............

mtbikerinpa

As a classically trained aircraft mechanic, body shop painter/repairer and fitness equipment mechanic, I will attest to specialization. Each category has it's own set of details and idos but the precision is a common trait as is the instinct. You can train a person who lacks instinct but they will not be efficient at diagnosis. I just had a co-technician who didn't work out because he lacked instinct. Similar to bike mechanics in that a customer will be looking at fix machine for $85/hr, so who would you rather pay? Wandering person or the one who knows where to go.

On my own personal machines, be it car or bike or appliance, I will fix it in 90 percent of the instances(or more). If I don't know how to do it initially I will research it and find a manual. Most of the time thats all it takes if a person has a good skill set. Some companies in the fitness world such as Precor will not release their tech data and service books unless you are willing to spend money and take a week long 40 hr week of training in Wash State. They will sell parts. Other companies put it all out in the open for the public to find if they look hard enough, such as Rock Shox. Some companies figure that it will sort out the able handy and the paying people.

Sometimes it just comes down to time. That is the case I am at with wheel spoking/building. I've done wheels way back when I was 15(and still have them) but the next set is going to be shop built. It is not a matter of ability, it is a matter of inventory and patience. They can monkey with what size they need to be and have it done when I get it back.

Dave Cutter

Maybe you're right! But... I've had some real-life experience with addicts and alcoholics. And whereas I can honestly say the people themselves can be very likeable... I've never been able to lie to myself to the point where I could even come close to imagining that drug impairment might have a positive effect. But otherwise bright people should be able to shuffle by at less than sober/sane 100%.

But.... If you ever need surgery.... I'll bet the medical board might be able to help you find a surgeon that has had license suspensions.... due pot usage. Then you could REALLY reap the benefit of that extra "attention to detail".