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anyone have a trick to get chain length right the first time?

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anyone have a trick to get chain length right the first time?

Old 07-17-15, 12:10 PM
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Big-big + 1" is a foolproof way to make sure you'll have enough chain for your setup, on the first try, as long as you don't change anything.

Like FBinNY and others, though, I like to use as much chain as I can. It gives a little more flexibility to try different chainrings or cassettes later on, or if you have a mishap on the road and need to cut out a link to continue your ride. Plus, I paid for all of those links, so why not use as many of them as I can?
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Old 07-17-15, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by himespau
So far, I've never had to remove more than would leave me Big/Big+1". I may do more than big/big+2". It's actually more like 3". I'm cheap so I'm leary of cutting off too much, so I was trying to say that I leave it longer than needed and then cut it back until it's no longer too long (checking before each cut that I still have the Big/Big + 1").
I'm like you, and don't like to ride with the minimum length, but I don't like to waste time, so I do it either of two ways.

1- if I know that capacity will not be an issue, I simply use the small/small method and pull up the slack, or use a variant of the Shimano method.
2- if capacity may be an issue, I loop the big/big add the inch and count the maximum number of links I may cut off. Then I use abovel method subject to that limitation.

The second method generally only comes into play with wide range gearing, and 90% of the time I can dispense with needing to precheck via big/big.
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Old 07-17-15, 12:27 PM
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Why not always do big-big, through the derailleur ? . Then there's never any doubt the chain is long enough, but not too long.
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Old 07-17-15, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Homebrew01
Why not always do big-big, through the derailleur ? . Then there's never any doubt the chain is long enough, but not too long.
No reason not to, except that some people don't like fighting against the cage tension spring. But you still don't know if it's short enough until you try small/small.
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Old 07-17-15, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by FBinNY
No reason not to, except that some people don't like fighting against the cage tension spring. But you still don't know if it's short enough until you try small/small.
But you can't go shorter than what's required for big-big, so why does small-small matter ?

I only fight the rear derailleur spring for the 5 seconds it takes to determine the length, and then I know 100% it will be good.
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Old 07-17-15, 01:07 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by Homebrew01
But you can't go shorter than what's required for big-big, so why does small-small matter ?
Because minimums are just that minimums. I don't live by minimums in most things, so why should I limit myself to minimums in bike chain length. Way back, earlier in the thread I explained one reason for wanting a longer chain, especially for race bikes. It's not rare to flat and accept a donated wheel, either from neutral support, or a fan. If you're racing with a tight cassette, you can get into deep schist with a borrowed wheel with a wider gear range.

Eons ago, when I worked with a race team, exactly that happened to a member who borrowed a wheel form a team mate who happened to have slightly wider gearing. Thereafter we decreed that every bike on the squad would have a chain long enough to loop the widest cassette we were likely to run into, regardless of what was on there when set up.

Racing wheel swaps is probably why Europeans prefer the longest chain method to the shortest one.

For non racers, running longer chains improves chain life (marginally), provides that bad links can be cut out if necessary, and provides for a future gearing change.

As I said, why live with minimums, when you can have the maximum?
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Old 07-17-15, 01:11 PM
  #32  
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Having longer makes sense. I would be nervous only using small-small as a gauge, so could see doing both methods.
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Old 07-17-15, 01:17 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by Homebrew01
Having longer makes sense. I would be nervous only using small-small as a gauge, so could see doing both methods.
As I described in post No.27. But after a while you get a sense of things and confidence in your work. Unless there's doubt about RD capacity vs. gear spread, you can go straight to the small/small method. Then just to be sure, run the bike through the gears including big/big.

I don't think I've ever cut a chain too short except in a few rare instances where the drivetrain wanted a chain longer than new out of the box.
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Old 07-17-15, 01:20 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by Homebrew01
Why not always do big-big, through the derailleur ? . Then there's never any doubt the chain is long enough, but not too long.
Big and big plus an inch without the derailleur always works as long as the derailleur matches the setup, and can handle the maximum cog size and total capacity rating of the system.

There are a few circumstances when getting the right chain length is a little harder, wide half step plus granny gearings can push a lot of older derailleurs to their limits but you always set things up so that the bike can be run in the big / big without causing damage to the bike.
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Old 07-17-15, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Sixty Fiver
Big and big plus an inch without the derailleur always works as long as the derailleur matches the setup, and can handle the maximum cog size and total capacity rating of the system.

There are a few circumstances when getting the right chain length is a little harder, wide half step plus granny gearings can push a lot of older derailleurs to their limits but you always set things up so that the bike can be run in the big / big without causing damage to the bike.
It's so rare that we disagree, that I can't pass it up.

While B/B+1 is bulletproof with modern slant parallelogram derailleurs, who's idler cages can rotate enough to clear a straight line along the bottom of the sprockets, it can fail miserably with an older non-slant derailleur. Those lower pulleys cannot swing above a nearly straight lower loop and the RD will be torn off. (wasn't rare BITD)

Older RDs on vintage bikes must have the chain measured big/big, through the RD cage (a la Homebrew) and pulled up short of tight (one inch or so).

And AGAIN, any big/big method is about the minimum length, but you have the option to go longer.
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Old 07-17-15, 03:07 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by FBinNY
It's so rare that we disagree, that I can't pass it up.

While B/B+1 is bulletproof with modern slant parallelogram derailleurs, who's idler cages can rotate enough to clear a straight line along the bottom of the sprockets, it can fail miserably with an older non-slant derailleur. Those lower pulleys cannot swing above a nearly straight lower loop and the RD will be torn off. (wasn't rare BITD)

Older RDs on vintage bikes must have the chain measured big/big, through the RD cage (a la Homebrew) and pulled up short of tight (one inch or so).

And AGAIN, any big/big method is about the minimum length, but you have the option to go longer.
Shimano Arabesque derailleurs come to mind here...
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Old 07-17-15, 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Sixty Fiver
Shimano Arabesque derailleurs come to mind here...
I was thinking of older stuff, like Pre Index Campagnolo, Huret Jubilee and the like, all Simplex derailleurs and so on.

Situations like setting chain length is why I like to say that there are no rules, only considerations.

Folks who learn a rule and blindly follow it get into trouble when they find the exception but don't recognize it.
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Old 07-17-15, 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by FBinNY
I was thinking of older stuff, like Pre Index Campagnolo, Huret Jubilee and the like, all Simplex derailleurs and so on.

Situations like setting chain length is why I like to say that there are no rules, only considerations.

Folks who learn a rule and blindly follow it get into trouble when they find the exception but don't recognize it.
There are always going to be exceptions...
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