PilgrimUK

I was riding down the road yesterday and heard a noise from the back.
When I got off to have a look, there was suddenly a lot of play in the back wheel, although the nuts are still really tight to the frame. I started to ride it home very slowly home and could hear a grinding and light cracking noise (pushed it the rest of the way).
After looking at it, there was a thin hoop of metal coming from the back axle which I could pull over the outer nut...(see photo below)

I have attached a couple of other photos from that same side, nothing else was removed. There is a lot of play in the back axle yet both sides spin at the same time, so I don't think it is broken? Because of the large hole, I can look inside and see that there are ball bearings but they seem to still be in place...


Anyone got any idea exactly what has gone?
Given that I have no tools, is it cheaper to get fixed or something I can tackle myself?
Thanks!

cny-bikeman

That appears to be the dust cap to your hub, which is normally way inside. The hub may be ruined, as for that to be pushed out means there was some other problem already existing. At a minimum the freewheel needs to be removed and hub disassembled (special tools required) and the hub parts need to be inspected. Possible a hub overhaul would fix it but a new wheel may be required.

habilis

Welcome to the Forum, Pilgrim! Given the noise and wobble, I'd guess that the problem is indeed bearing-related, even though the bearings appear to be in place. Some bearings are held in place by a "cage" - sort of a circular frame. That may be the hoop you found. Since you lack tools, you may have no option other than to seek help at the bike shop or local coop. However, this is an opportunity to research your specific problem and learn about wheel anatomy and maintenance. So, be sure to ask exactly what went wrong and how to prevent a recurrence.

cny-bikeman

One small correction - the bearing cage only assists in assembly. It has no function once the bearing is assembled - does nothing to hold the balls in place. Very, very few hubs have caged bearings - primarily found in crank/BB and fork/headset bearings

JonathanGennick 

I see hubs w/caged bearings all the time. Probably is a function of the type of bike I'm most often overhauling.

I can't really tell what that piece is that came out.

It bothers me in the second photo to be able to look down the center of the freewheel and visualize the bearings. They normally are not visible like that from the outside.

The axle appears as if bent or possibly broken.

Habilis is right on. Someone needs to remove the freewheel and see what's up. A visit to a bike shop would be in order.

FBinNY 

I suspect that either the bike was ridden with bearing play for a while with the seal dragging on the axle, and it finally gave way. It's also possible that extreme wear lead to a cracked cup or balls. It's not all that rare for a ball to crack leading to broken bits in the ball track and a cascade where more balls crack upon hitting them.

Step one is to open it up and look. Only then can a course of action be decided on. If the races are basically OK, the bearing can be reloaded with fresh balls and grease and be OK except for the seal or dust cover. The OP then has a choice of riding without any seal, or improvising something (which isn't that hard).

habilis

Bikeman, I didn't mean to contradict your post - I'm a slow typist and you beat me to the punch. The dust cap is probably a more reasonable assumption. Bottom line, though, that item is toasted (Am. Eng), knackered (Brit. Eng.)!

cny-bikeman

1. Must be - caged bearings on hubs are not very common at all any more, even on inexpensive bikes.

2. Yes, Habilis agreed with me that the freewheel needs to be removed (but hub will need disassembly as well).

PilgrimUK

Thanks for all the quick responses everyone..and thanks for the welcome habilis
After looking at the cost of buying the tools, I have decided to let a shop have a look at it.
They have quoted £25 for a whole new back wheel, it sounds like it might be the best option as it was much cheaper than having to strip it all down to have a look at it.
Thanks a lot for your help; it has helped me learn a little bit more about them...

CliffordK

£25 for a new wheel sounds good enough.
You probably will hae to take the old wheel the the shop anyway. They will probably reuse the freewheel, tire, and tube (assuming they are all good).

Even if you were to rebuild the existing wheel, you would have to at least pay £5 for a replacement axle and cones, and another £5 for new bearings. Even without labor, pretty quickly you get up to the cost of a new wheel.

BTW, if I have a fault on the road, I will evaluate whether it is safe to ride the bike home. In your case, I probably would have walked the bike home rather than risk irreparable damage to the components.

Once you strip the good parts, consider donating the remainder to a local bike Co-op. Someone may want to rebuild it.

ksisler

Pilgrim ; Agree with other responders in recommending just getting a new wheel...and the price seems excellent. Rationale; Over the decades have often found that when one part takes a beating, the other parts become damaged or weakened, even if not visible to the naked eye.

Hope that helps
/K

CliffordK

I think it is more that with all the Chinese Imports, it is hard to rebuild the old wheel for anywhere near that price, and still charge for parts and labor.

Those of us who don't pay for labor (do it ourselves) would at least take the wheel apart. But, it does appear as if it will likely involve more than simply tightening it up.

But, one could be surprised. It may still be in good condition inside.

I've ridden without right rear dust caps in the past, as long as the freewheel more or less covers the axle. Yours seems to have a lot of empty space visible though.

ClarkinHawaii

FB, I'd like to hear more about this since I don't have a clue--thank you.

CliffordK

I was thinking about that a bit today.

The old 2 prong freewheels have pretty tight clearance, so they probably don't need an extra seal.

On the other hand, the splined freewheels have a little greater clearance, so replacing seal is probably a good idea. Then it all depends on whether a good match can be found, and how torn up things are.

FBinNY 

Improvising means just that -- improvising, making do, or coming up with a creative DIY solution to a problem. If someone writes you a script, it wouldn't be improvisation.

But at basics, you have a hub shell and axle (or cones) with a gap to fill between them. Depending on the design, you might cut plastic disc and use it i lieu for a washer on the axle where it might pass close to the shell, or can be cut to be a close fit within. Ir you might use a thicker piece of plastic cut and filed to be a press fit in the shell and drilled to clear the cone. If you're lucky you might fin a fat O-ring that does the job, or some thing conical to make an exterior seal similar to those rubber cones used on some hubs.

The key is to get a mental picture of the essence of the job, then wander around hardware and auto stores until you find something.

Sometimes you don't get inspired, you just get lucky. Some decades back two friends and I of were touring in NH when my friend suffered one of those unfixable breakdowns. I went into the local hardware store looking for ideas and was wandering around looking for something I could adapt. The owner wasn't sure about the scruffy person wandering his aisles and kept asking things like "can I help you" or "what are you looking for" (code for "I don't trust you") and I kept saying "no" or "I don't know", until I got exasperated and said "I'm looking for an inspiration, what aisle do you keep those in!". That worked so well that he not only threw me out, he called the cops.

The cop came up, asked what I was up to, and I explained the problem, showing him the bike. Whereupon he tossed the me and the bike into his patrol car, and drove to his brothers auto shop where after 2 hours of work and conversation we were back on the road.

FBinNY 

The solution depends on the specifics. For example if the left side seal is destroyed, you might steal the one from the right side, where the bearing is recessed deeper, hiding behind the freewheel. Or you might trap something between the freewheel and shell (there's a gap there).

It's like the old trick about what to do if your changing a tire on your car and accidentally kick all the lug nuts into the sewer.

CliffordK

I've often been found wandering around the local building supply store looking for car parts, antique appliance parts, bike parts, whatever. I wonder if the guys there are learning not to ask.

My old FIAT has (or had) a little bit of Maytag in it. And, even bicycle parts keeping it going.

CliffordK

Hopefully you're not driving a Citreon 2cv, otherwise you could be seriously short of lug nuts/bolts.

habilis

I know you insomniacs have all gone to bed long ago, but I just had to post how much I admire your attitude of resourcefulness. Too bad they can't have a course about it in the public schools.

JonathanGennick 

FB, that's a great story. Love it. Was involved in a similar story once involving the Sheriff and a cyclist going from Toronto to Edmonton, and was privileged to be the one to help.

And I totally get it about wandering the aisles in the hardware store. It's like putting together a puzzle. One needs to absorb all the pieces and let one's mind figure out which ones can fit together into a solution.

CliffordK

Interesting question.

And, sometimes I wonder if society tries to train resourcefulness out of individuals. It isn't something that one could teach in a single class. And there are many people who want you to go "by the book". Whereas the tinkerers throw the books out.

A boxed item that comes with assembly instructions. One always assembles first, then looks at the instructions to see how many mistakes one made

I suppose there would be a lot of little things. When I was in a painting class years ago, we were given a selection of colors. The one color we were never allowed to have was BLACK. So, if one ever wanted black, one would have to mix paints together until one got a nice dark color (usually not quite black).

Anyway, to tie it back to the original question.

The wheel is already broken, and the OP has a quote to get it replaced for a very reasonable £25.

That means there is nothing the OP can do to break the wheel any more.

So, in my world, that means take it apart and see how the thing works, and what went wrong with it. With some luck, one might even be able to get it back together and save the £25.

Now, there are a few tools that may be helpful.

• Freewheel tool (probably Park FR-1). Your shop may remove the freewheel for reuse anyway.
• Set of standard wrenches.
• Cone wrenches (probably 15mm), most useful if you wish to reassemble. Perhaps not necessary for disassembly.

I do have a home made cone wrench somewhere. Not the best because it was made with too soft of steel, but it is good in a pinch.

Now, on that wheel, there was a mangled piece of metal that seemed to fall out. With the one photo, it is hard to recognise, but a dust cap or seal seems like a reasonable interpretation. It isn't entirely needed, but some protection is nice.

And, unfortunately, dust caps can be proprietary, and aren't the easiest to replace... or if they are, they often aren't just laying around our parts boxes... so rather than spending hours or days tracking one down, alternatives are sought.

Anyway, if the OP wants to take on the task of rebuilding, then there will be people who will look at detailed photos and give some advice.

fietsbob

Axle is Broken.. freewheel hubs do that , particularly the Low end ones .. But you can buy a new axle assembly ,

bring wheel to Bike shop. if you still want , to DIY they will sell you the needed tools and the repair parts ..

FBinNY 

That was my first theory and remains a possibility. But when wheels with broken solid axles are removed from the frame, there's nothing holding anything together and the axle ends fall out. QR is different because the skewer holds everything together despite the axle breaking.

fietsbob

There was this song " I Aint Broke , but I go Around Badly Bent"

FBinNY 

Deb (my wife) works for the decompression clinic in Cozumel. They're finishing a major expansion and looking for a tag slogan for Facebook and such.

I suggested "We straighten bent divers", but they passed on it.