bikerbobbbb

I'll definitely get a new spoke wrench. That was ridiculous. I don't understand exactly what three or four sided nipples are. I can take a guess though. That's where you clamp onto it, either four sides or three. These are four sided nipples from what I see.

Still looking up chain whip how-to info...

CliffordK

Did yo watch a YouTube Video of cassette removal?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MkRUiqHXTY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEAASx8ipsI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9Oek25xKJ0

bikerbobbbb

I watched some before and got the idea. More won't hurt. Glancing at it... Different video, but it would be the same process.

Mission accomplished. I'm taking a break, done for the day with this.

Biggest concerns -- How to order the spokes I'll need for the next step. Details like which oil to use for sure.
Significant concern -- When I put the wheel back on. I've been tightening it up to the frame using the thicker parts on the wheel, thread parts. Otherwise, there's the skewer. (I accidentally used the skewer when an inner tube died on me. I figured out I really do need to flip the bike to look for this. The skewer is what was clamped in, not the thicker threaded part. On the second mile, the wheel actually started popping out. I'm pretty sure I've always used the thicker threaded part, but I thought I might as well check here. I've got pic.)

I think the DS is 194mm. NSD is 190mm. Threads were 10mm from the very end and up on both.

I've got tons of pics. I probably took about a hundred or so. (yes, really)

Marking the spokes and taking pics was wise. By the time I got the time to put them back on I was brain dead. That would have gotten even more confusing without the pics or marks.

Thanks for the reminders here and thanks to youtube -- I reused the old nipples from the broken spokes. Those look ok. I stuck the nipple on the broken spoke and used that to guide it through the double wall rim, onto the inplace spoke. So I didn't drop a nipple into the double wall rim.

Directions for turning the nipples made a lot more sense when I saw it was just a nut on the end of a screw like that. Even then, I was brain dead at one point and started turning it the wrong way, at least once. Getting that mind made me more confident in using the spoke wrench.

The spoke wrench I used more carefully. Kept it pressed against the nipple better. Didn't force it. Knew the direction it was supposed to go for sure.


I used WD-40 on the nipples. That definitely helped. Is that a "correct" oil for those? I wasn't so concerned by then. Just wanted to keep moving on things.


Third larger concern -- When I put the cassette back and was putting the end nut part on, I hand tightened it at first. Then did a little with the chain whip and monkey wrench. It clicked a bit when I turned it though. I didn't know if that was normal, if it's stripping something (which would be really bad if it meant replacing the whole hub). It seemed to be on ok, so I didn't do a huge death grip tightening on it. Is that ok? Or is that nut with the FR-5 tool supposed to be really, really tight to be safe? It's not going to fall off if it's not really tight? I'm thinking it's fine. The clicking made me wonder a bit.


So...
Broken spokes are removed.
I believe I've got measurements on the DS and NDS spokes. (I've got a ton of pics if I need to go back and double check things.)
Bike is back in ridable, "good enough" condition (for me). (Including having the tire on the correct direction this time...)


I'd say a success so far. Everything was unknown. Now more is known. Like nipples are that fragile. (Why don't they just make stronger nipples?)

Vaguely planning ahead...
I need to check my measurements here. I need to figure out how to order spokes exactly.
Need advice on nipple oil.
Need extra nipples. I'm confident I've got more stripped nipples on there. After I replace the broken spokes, and then try to true the wheel better after that, I'll find them again. Then it's taking it all apart and replacing those too.... Unless I hunt them down now, which sounds doable.
What else...? New spokes, new nipples, oiled...
I should get a new spoke wrench is the one I've got now is crap. Better spoke wrenching technique is good though.
So, the next step... Is buying more stuff, replacing the broken spokes and any stripped nipples. After that it's truing the wheel better.

Cloth tape looked ok. It was a little stuck. Tough stuff. But it can be pushed back. More wear and tear on the fingers there, but it was doable. I guess that wheel rim tape is ok.

For replacing the spokes, after opening things up, I was brain dead. If I didn't have markings on the bike or pics, I probably would have been a bit screwed. I even royally confused myself by flipping the wheel over when I new where the spoke and hole where (I didn't mark the rim hole for the spoke I was working on, so I had to hunt that down.) Considering I also put a tire on backwards last time (I had a sharp piece of glass embedded in my tire and poked three inner tubes until I tracked it down. By then I was trying to fix the flat as fast as possible. I ended up putting the tire on backwards though for how the treads should be. Even with making a point to be careful with that, I got the tire on the bike and realized it was on backwards. But I figured it was good enough, and I'd be messing with it later anyway.) With that in mind, I'd say redoing spokes is farther away, more of a challenge. These three I can see myself doing. Figure out one, check the others that everything matches. I could also see myself doing every other spoke potentially, but one at a time. What I can't see myself doing is the whole thing at once -- Unless I did every other spoke, one at a time, and then switched and did 'every other spoke' for the rest, but still one at a time, just copying what's already there. I'd heavily lean toward having a bike shop handle redoing the whole wheel.... Although... If I got a completely separate wheel... So I've got two rear wheels. Exactly the same, or maybe one with the "correct" hub... Then I could work on one wheel at my leisure and still have the bike in working condition. If I think spokes will continue to break, instead of replacing the spoke, maybe I could have a whole second rear wheel ready to go. That might work. A broken spoke doesn't mean I have to stop riding it though. After I've got the process down, it seems to be more along the lines of a tire or inner tube repair. And a new wheel... The rim was around $90 I think... Plus a hub... plus spokes, etc... Maybe $150 to have a second rear wheel ready to go. And hopefully that would match with the shifting part. New cassette for that second wheel too.... It's an idea, but I think I'd wait on that.

bikerbobbbb

For the chain whip, I figured out to use a smaller cog. Duh... I thought I might need a longer chain on it, and then it dawned on me to just use a smaller cog. Then it actually loosened up before I realized it.

I could use a better tool than a monkey wrench to grip the FR-5 hub tool. The monkey wrench was digging into it. It's going to strip that down eventually. I just wanted to move the project along at that point though. The adjustable wrench I've got was too small. So maybe a bigger adjustable wrench then too to buy...

Bill Kapaun

3 or 4 sided is the spoke wrench.

Drew Eckhardt 

You want to lubricate both spoke threads and rim sockets.

Zinc anti-seize is ideal because it corrodes preferentially over aluminum rims and nipples (most nipples are brass, which is stronger and more resistant to oxidation).

Grease is second because it still keeps water out.

An actual oil is third when you have the wheel apart, like 3-in-1 oil or motor oil. It's your only viable choice when encountering an assembled wheel some one didn't use anti-seize or grease on.

WD40 isn't really a lubricant.


It's toothed so it clicks when you tighten it.

40 newton-meters, about 30 foot pounds. That's tight.

Drew Eckhardt 

You want a 1" socket or combination wrench.

Bill Kapaun

Those are mighty short spokes.
What's the rim diameter?

Typically, the NDS will be 1 or 2 mm longer than DS.

NOTE: You don't need 12 paragraphs to answer!

bikerbobbbb

Popping back in for a quick question.... Haven't read all the responses yet (but thanks for all this advice for sure).

700c wheel bike I think. How do I measure rim diameter? Just straight across? Inside to inside or outside to outside? Inches?


Question.... The spokes on one side of the hub... They connect on one side and then the other. One front, one back. Does that affect the length? I just picked on (away from the missing spokes but not opposite). It doesn't matter whether they connect on the outside or inside of the hub right? It's just DS is one length, NDS is another length. But there isn't two different DS and two different NDS lengths, right?

I'm still processing the pics. I might have something later tonight for the measurements or hopefully tomorrow.

bikerbobbbb

This is my upgraded rear wheel.

mavic wheel cx 7 22
I couldn't find exact specs for it online. And I read they don't list their spoke tension.

bikerbobbbb

This isn't my wheel, but I kept finding it while searching. I'm having issues getting this page on BF to load, otherwise I' edit.
CXP 22 | Mavic - United States

Bill Kapaun

Correct.

bikerbobbbb

mavic wheel cxp22 for sure. Deja vu.... It's a P, not a 7.
Silver.

I was thinking the black cxp22 url above might give me a good guess for spoke info.

https://www.google.com/shopping/prod...FZURkgodRLUH5A

For the wheel.
https://sheldonbrown.com/harris/images/W1114.jpg
That's not my hub.


32 spokes for sure. I just counted.

700c That's the rim diameter?

bikerbobbbb

Wheel Size Wars - Slowtwitch.com
For me for later.

When I got the new rear wheel, the tire looks fatter on it than on the old wheel. But it still works. I kept getting the same thing. I think PSI is 50-80. I keep it more around 50. I'm afraid 80 might blow out the bead (right term?), wire part inside the tire, over the rim. And it's a bit rough for hitting a bump and having that transfer to me on the seat, even at 50. Less pressure I stop noticing because the ride isn't as rough. So I leave it at 50-60psi, until I notice the tires start feeling sloppy, and then realize the ride isn't as rough, so the pressure must be below 50.
That may play into the spokes breaking if I've got the wrong tire or inner tube on it. It's halfway between a skinny/narrow tire and fatter/mountain bike. I was told it's a commuter tire and that's what replaced the skinny tires from years ago.

bikerbobbbb

Duh on me....

292mm DS
290mm NDS

10mm of thread on each.

Working on the pics.


Yep... Brain dead. I thought it was 10mm between but it's not. 194... meant 294... but it's really 292mm. Two notches above 290. The NDS was right on 290, so no mess ups there.

292mm DS
290mm NDS
with 10mm thread from the end.

bikerbobbbb

DS

292mm.

It was a little bent after being pulled out. I straightened it by pressing on it to get some pics, pulling my hand back from this pic. For sure, it was two notches above the 290 triangle.

bikerbobbbb

NDS

290mm

Straighten out, it was right on the 290 triangle.

bikerbobbbb

Interesting on the cassette.

I didn't mess with it. I didn't want to screw it up. The first little cog would come out. Probably the second. I didn't want to have them *not* go back together easily, and taking them apart wasn't necessary or part of the plan.

I did not the largest one was attached by a screw it seemed. I didn't come apart. It would swivel though. I didn't spend time studying it out.

Why is that? It must be standard. I think everything on my bike is normal and standard.

bikerbobbbb

Is this a concern?

There's a skewer through the hub. That's not what should be touching the frame for tightening it in, right?

This is how I've got it now, and this is the way I've been attaching it. The skewer goes into a thread fatter part on the hub. That fatter threaded part is what sits in the C-shaped part of the frame.

When I put the wheel on, I did notice there was plenty of space. The skewer was visible between the fat, threaded hub part and the C-shaped cradle part of the bike.

Is the fat threaded part (the hub) supposed to sit in the frame, or is the skewer? I can't image the skewer would be able to stand the force put on it. I remember when I got the bike, the guy said the skewer just hold the pieces together. That's it's job. Together, it all works to withstand the forces put on the bike, that it's not putting all the pressure on that little skewer.

bikerbobbbb

Here's a pic of the drive side without tightening it. it shows the skewer between the fat threaded hub part and the bike frame C-shaped cradle part.


I think I've always used the fatter part of the hub itself. Today I noticed it had threads on it though. Maybe that's for if you don't have quick release skewers?

bikerbobbbb

And the last question for tonight....

Why did the flathead screwdriver side of the nipple, inside the double wall rim, have red in that flathead groove? Do they stick wax or something in there (to see if anyone messed with it)? Or is that the oil?


153 pics. I took pics at each step. I doubt the rest are that great or needed, but I do have more. Yes, I'm thorough like that. And that paid off for getting the working spokes put back on without having to think much at that point.


Thanks again for the advice. Night.

bikerbobbbb

I forgot to measure my nipples. Haha. Easy enough with the ones on the broken spokes though.

For getting new nipples, the mm is the length of the nipple or how far it will stick out coming out of the rim?

jyl

Just bring the old nipples and spokes to a bike shop and have them sell you replacement nipples and spokes. And the correct spole wrench.

bikerbobbbb

I'm trying to avoid my bike shop as much as possible.

RoadGuy

As someone else already pointed out, the RM30 rear hub that was originally on your bike is a entry level mountain bike wheel hub, and they are usually spaced 135mm.

Your photos show that the HB2200 wheel axle is too short (probably spaced for 130mm as others have mentioned. You need the rear axle and spacers off the old wheel to make the new wheel hub fit correctly on your 135mm spaced hybrid frame. Or you should have bought the right wheel to begin with.

The HB2200 rear hub is a entry level road bike wheel hub, and usually spaced 130mm. Both the RM30 and the HB2200 rear wheels are freehubs and use cassettes. Both the RM30 and the HB2200 are of equal quality, one is not better/stronger than the other.

Who installed the replacement wheel on the bike for you, the bike shop, or did you do it yourself? With the exception of the wheel hub itself, the other parts of the RM30 and HB2200 rear hubs are interchangable. The Bike Shop could have easily swapped the axle with cones and balls, and the QR release skewer from your old RM30 to the new HB2200 at the time that the new rear wheel was installed. Or better still, the Bike Shop could have sold you the correct wheel to begin with.

Both the RM30 and the HB2200 are available drilled for 32 or 36 spokes. Does the replacement HB2200 have 32 or 36 spokes? You keep mentioning that the new wheel hub has less/fewer spoke to worry about breaking. If the spokes were breaking on your old RM30 wheel hub, reducing the number of spokes will not redues the number of spokes that you will break, I would expect the number of broken spokes to increase over time because you are increasing the load on each individual spoke by reducing the number of spokes.

Don't throw away perfectly good spare parts. You should have keep your old wheel, you could have used it for parts in the future.

To get new spokes, I recommend that you take a pair of unbroken ones off your rear wheel, go to the local bike shop and ask them to match them up with some new ones. Be sure to ask them what the length of the new spokes are, so you can buy more at a later time if necessary

Who picked the HB2200 wheel as a replacement for you and installed it? If it was the bike shop, they have some explaining to do. Take the bike back to them and point out how the rear wheel spacing is wrong. They should be responsible for providing and installing the parts that will make the wheel fit properly on your bike if they picked the wheel, and installed it on the bike for you.

Did the same Bike Shop sell you that bike, and the replacement HB2200 wheel? If so, you need to find a better bike shop where the people know what they are doing. In the mean time, take the bike back to the bike shop, ask to see the shop manager, and explain to him that they need to fix their screw-ups without charging you for the mistakes they made.