bikerbobbbb

Got some more numbers.

This is using a crappy bathroom scale. Probably accurate within 5-10 pounds either way.

I'm 195 today. I would guess 190 actually.

Pack I always carry with me is 13-15 pounds. Same scale says 20 pounds for the pack alone. I'd guess 15.

Bike when I picked it up minus my weight is 55 pounds.

I'd guess 190 for me, about 15 for the pack, and bike is about 50 pounds.

Pack is always carried around.

And then I have a second pack for one trip daily that's about 25-35 pounds. That's what puts the weight up to 235 to 245 for me and the two packs, depending on what's in them and how much I weight.

The bike weight matches what I remember weighing before. It's got fin guards and baskets. I think the baskets may have doubled or added a 1/3 of the weight when I got those on.

I'm fine with the bike's weight itself. I don't care so much about lightness. Heavy works. I'm concerned about getting to where I need to. Sturdy would win out
over weight for me. I've noticed there might be an advantage to the weight for snow and ice riding.

Still wondering about the spokes though. (And I think I may have found another bike shop. Definitely a plus.) If my original bike shop didn't really do anything with the spokes and gave it to me like that. Then one breaks. The rest get stressed. I get that spoke replaced. I remember in the past noticing that I had loose spokes too. That's why I got the spokes wrench -- Tighten them up at least so they're not that loose, avoid paying the bike shop for another trip for spokes or something. So if the other spokes get fatigued, eventually they break too. I get those replaced, but the rest are still fatigued. On and on. Eventually I replace the whole wheel... and then break a spoke, get it replaced but the rest are fatigued, break a spoke....
Point being the original bike shop maybe does a crappy job setting up the spokes in the first place? Maybe they don't even really do much with them when the wheel comes in. The upgrade wheel I got was already put together. They didn't respoke it that I'm aware of (that was a few years ago though). If they did, they probably would have reused the original hub. I remember the guy bringing the wheel out too. They put the cassette on it and probably trued it a bit... or not at all. Maybe it was good enough for them.

So, questions... If they're getting a wheel all put together.... Can machines do that (and do a crappy job of assembling them)? If someone there did a crappy job assembling from scratch, would that account for my spoke issue? One guy there does a crappy job assembling wheels and then spokes break months or years later. I did have similar issues with both wheels though, and less issues with the upgraded wheel. Maxing out weight still sounds likely from what I read.

jyl

The weights you're talking about do not sound too high for a well built 36H wheel. No idea why yours didn't last, maybe they were not well built or maybe you are hard on your wheels. The wheel that you are going to fix could keep breaking spokes, since the remaining ones have probably been weakened. So replacing these four spokes is not necessarily going to be the end of your problems. But you'll learn something about spokes and wheels. And you might feel ready to completely respoke the wheel, later.

bikerbobbbb

Spokes and nipples came in. I'm getting four replacements on today. I'm tired of wondering what might happen.

Spoke cream shipped but I'm not waiting. It would be another week until I can work on this.

I'm just going to get the replacement spokes on. I'll mess with truing later.

bikerbobbbb

The worst I'm doing is dropping down off a regular curb. (not anymore though) Even then I wouldn't do that if I had a load of stuff. It's too much a big thump.

Curbs without a load, the weight, and I'm probably going about 10mph.

And the spokes, except for the replacements, haven't been swapped out or redone. So it's been three years then. Add the crappy work from the bike shop. Maybe that's the recipe for a spoke breaking a little more often than it should.

bikerbobbbb

Hey, hey. Success!

Replaced the 4 broken spokes.
Then checked for stripped nipples. Several of those from my attempt to true is last year.
Replaced those. Gave up on one that disintegrated (nipple wrench could have saved it I think). Sawed it apart and replaced it.

Amusing moment when I got confused why the one eyelet was so much bigger than the others. Checked and noticed the nipples were all the same, but the replacement nipple would go right through that eyelet. Then it dawned on me that it was the hole for the inner tube stem....

Quick test ride. Definitely feels stronger, sturdier.

I was glad I had spare spokes and nipples. Used all but the adjustable wrench I got. The Park tool, previous all-in-one spoke wrench, regular pliers, and adjustable pliers all were helpful.

Something still rubbing. Maybe on the fins. But the brakes are nice and strong. Shifting is back to normal. I think I lost my smallest cog again. That's how it was a month or two ago. Feels much better to ride again.

Since I had that many spokes broken, the wheel was true. Even when I was thinking about it, just from replacing five spokes and then probably five stripped nipples... I think the wheel is actually truer than it was. Maybe 50% better. Still wobbles a little, but not as much as before. (which makes me think I might get lazy now... not mess with truing, not do the perfect wheel idea... I want to learn how to adjust the shifter and brakes better too sometime.)

The hub part was nothing this time. Pop it off. Pop it on. I noticed the gap in the fork/c-cup holders when I was putting the wheel back on. I do have to squeeze those in to get the short axle on there.

Did the press the rim down bit after the spokes were all on. Did the spoke squeezing. I didn't mess with making sure the nipples were turned against the direction they'll want to go. I figured I think about that while truing.

Spokes were still a bit confusing. Last time I just matched what was there when I removed and replaced a good spoke. I've got pics I can post sometime. I think I got them right.

Probably spent... 4-5 hours doing that. The procedures I did before I was faster at. I think a nipple wrench could have helped though, so I'll probably one.

Thanks for everyone's help and advice on here. I've got a little more repair skill now for that stuff. That test ride felt really good. The bike felt nice and tight and I wasn't concerned about what might happen if there's a little bump in the road.

bikerbobbbb

Hm... This nipple driver isn't the end I needed today.
Amazon.com : Park Tool Nipple Driver : Bike Hand Tools : Sports & Outdoors
park nipple driver

Do they sell or how do you make the screwdriver with a notch in the middle? That's what I needed on the spoke with disintegrated nipple. That's strong enough to file away the center of a screwdriver like that?



https://www.bikeforums.net/bicycle-me...iver-hack.html


Also interesting....
https://makezine.com/projects/build-b...ver-old-spoke/
Reuse an old nipple.... Sounds like a lot of if' though... If it threads on... If the second nipple holds onto the thread enough to reverse direction. I ran into that a bit using the old spoke to place a new nipple or remove an old one.

bikerbobbbb

Nice. Started 8/5/2015. Got to a nice solution (by my bike standards) on 9/4/2015. One month's effort with the advice from here.

Except for the spoke fatigue potential issue, and now knowing about the axle/hub shortness.. I've got turnable nipples again and can experiment with truing. Some I back where I was when I originally started messing with truing.

jyl

Nipple driver is for quickly spinning nipples on to spoke, when building a wheel. Not for removing a nipple from spoke. You remove nipple with spoke wrench, if nipple is too rounded off then (destructively) with visegrips or pliers.

I guess you could grind a notch in a regular flat head screwdriver.

bikerbobbbb

Some pics of the wheel after I replaced spokes.

I put black electric tape on the spokes I replaced. Five total. Four broken, one I cut after messing with the disintegrated nipple for an hour.


Still looking for a "spanner" screwdriver. I think I'll check the local stores for that though. I've got broken spokes/nipples I can bring in to find the right tool.

jyl

Have you trued and tensioned?

bikerbobbbb

Oi... no truing. Still on the list. The wheel wobbles a bit but it works.


Logged in to get it recorded somewhere... Found another broken spoke. Hopefully I'll swap in the replacement this weekend.

Gears have been slipping a lot more lately. It's getting more annoying and more noticeable.

Retro Grouch 

Just do it!

Acquire the least amount of tools that you think possible to do the job and give it a shot. You'll probably screw up but that's part of the learning process.

bikerbobbbb

Just logging in again. (Man, I can't type in this forum box... I'm using notepad to type normally.)

Screwing up to the point that I can't use the bike isn't quite acceptable to me. (Adds more stress though.) If I can't use the bike, I'm either walking longer I'd like, taking more time, or I'm driving and paying gas on that.

My rear wheel felt a little wobblier lately, so I decided to replace the broken spoke today. That went pretty smoothly. I ended up replacing a second spoke that was either broken and I just discovered (most likely) or I just didn't notice it yet.

Used my spray bottle lith-something oil for the spokes again, even though I'd got the spoke prep stuff. I was getting tired of it by that point. (Stress from hoping it would all go back together nicely I think.)

Two spokes replaced. Thanks again for the advice on this forum.

Swapped out my "summer tires" that are smoother. Got the tire treads on the correct direction for sure. I still wonder if my rims are narrower than the tire specs. The tire looks fat and puffy, these smoother ones, compared to the rim. But they worked before.

Spent a little time truing the rear wheel. Didn't invest any energy into studying that online. I just took a guess. Actually, replacing the spokes was helpful for that. I knew which direction to spin the nipple/spoke wrench. Truing wasn't perfect, but the wheel is better than before. The brakes don't drag on the rims like they were starting to do.

Messed with bending the wheel splash guards a bit. The tires have black things sticking out on them or the tire gets close enough to brush the splash guard a bit, so it makes a sound. More of a nuisance. I don't want to screw it up though and have it become more of a project.

No issues with the brakes when I flipped the bike over. I think rear wheel is more true than before. Not perfect though, but better. Not something I want to mess with yet. I am thinking I might get a truing stand and just make that the project sometime. Wheele works... but try to true is up some more.

Tested it and was pleasantly surprised. Brakes are slightly sloppier, probably needs some tweaking and probably new cables and even housings. But good enough. Shifting still worked well enough. The surprising thing was that I could put more pressure on the pedals and the chain would jump. I still need a new chain, cassette, and chain ring. But it wasn't bad at all. Maybe 2-3 chain jumps when I was really pressing on the pedals. The easiest gears for going up a hill worked nicely again, no chain jumps. I did squirt the whole cassette down with the white/yellow spray lubricant though. Probably not the wisest idea since it's oil and not wax.

I also squirted the white/yellow spray lubricant on the skewers before I slipped them back in. I wasn't sure if I'm supposed to do that, but I figured that's something that's constantly having things move over it.

Couldn't find my water motor grease that I bought sometime in the last few months. Gave up after searching for it for a bit.

Future stuff...
New chain, new cassette, new chain ring.
New "perfect" (meaning correct) rear wheel.
Learn how to adjust shifters.
Learn how to adjust brakes better.
Probably replace the brake and shifter cables, and I should replace the housings on those too I think.
Clean the bike
Probably some kind of maintenance, like regreasing insides of wheels somewhere that I'm not quite aware of.

It's a Point A to Point B bike though. Replacement for walking. Replacement for driving. I know it's saving me money since I started using it for longer distances so I don't have to drive. It doesn't look pretty (so it doesn't get stolen). And even though I'd like to perfect it, it's not quite enough of a priority. It's needed for transportation, not to be the perfect bike on its own. Messing with truing more sounds like a reasonable/doable next step.

And it's coming up to being seven years old soon.

Time spent with the spokes and tire changes... about three hours this morning.

Andy_K 

Replacing broken spokes without properly truing the wheel and correcting any tension imbalances almost guarantees that you are going to break more spokes. Usually this is a skill that people learn well after learning to adjust shifters, but I suppose the task that most urgently needs doing gets the most attention.

Read the Sheldon Brown page on wheel building. It's a useful resource for truing and tensioning as well. If you've got a good ear you can check spoke tension by the sound it makes when plucked: Bicycling - Wheelbuilding: check spoke tension using musical pitch If not, there's an app for that.

AlexCyclistRoch

Wow...it's amazing how long people can talk about doing a 5-minute job. It ain't brain surgery-just do it!

bikerbobbbb

I've got my new truing stand set up (I think). It looks like it will hold a wheel. And it's adjusted/callibrated I guess from what I can tell. (park ts 2.2 with base and the big silver callibrating piece. As good as it can get for the tool being correct.)

I didn't take the wheel off, but I lined up the dishing tool (park again). That looks like it's off about a centimeter. No surprise. Last adjusted late at night and it was probably going the wrong way.

Got some numbers off the spoke tensioning measuring tool. No real surprises here. I'm actually more surprised that they're more consistent than what I was expecting.

The dishing centimeter air gap is on the non-drive side. That's the direction the whole wheel is too far in, enough so that it's rubbing on the brake and sometimes actually just stops moving. I'm putting extra effort into pedalling to overcome that. Finally truing it up the right way should solve that.

Drive side
20
21
22
26
28
9 <---- !
23 <---- ! and right next to each other
26
18
26
24
21
19
26
23
28
21 -- repeat of the first one.

non-drive side
22
21
14
25
23
23
24
19
21
24
24
23
20
19
21
27
23 -- repeat of the first spoke I think.

AlexCyclistRoch

Can you give us the angular position of each reading in radians???? I wanna make a spreadsheet outta this!

Kopsis

If that's your idea of "consistent" then you don't understand this whole wheel building thing at all. DS tensions ranging from 173 kgf to less than 60 kgf (and that's ignoring the one slack spoke) and you wonder why spokes keep breaking? It's a wonder you don't have nipples pulling out of the rim (then again, maybe you do).

HillRider

There is absolutely no reason for this thread to have gotten this long.

Squeezebox

So spoke tension is about the musical note the spoke makes when plucked?
I'm glad I've got a squeeze box to help. What do you suggest? I'll start with C above middle C and see what happens. Maybe a 1/3 above for the drive side?
Maybe I'll work on "Irish Washer Woman" while I'm at it.

bikerbobbbb

These look good as a final solution to the spoke problem.

The numbers above are just what the current spokes are at. That was adjusting them on my own with just a spoke wrench. Now I've got the truing stand, dishing tool, and spoke tension meter. My next step there is true these current spokes up as much as possible.

And then replace them all later....

These look good. Need 32, 16+16. I'll get some spares. These should break in the middle, if they do break eventually. (Although if I had all new spokes, everything's trued.... and a spoke still broke. I wonder what the cause would be then.)

https://www.universalcycles.com/shop...0&category=197
DT Competition Spokes - Silver
1 Review
2.0-1.8-2.0 stainless steel butted spokes
185g/32 spokes
Nipples sold separatly
Price is each spoke
$1/each
x20, 292 mm
x20, 290 mm...$40 for spokes

https://www.universalcycles.com/shop...9&category=197
DT Swiss Brass Nipples
DT Swiss Brass Nipples - 2.0 x 12mm Silver Brass
12mm