Dave Cutter

I have a couple wall-hangers. I like having a bicycle or two on the wall of my basement office. I wanted something that would keep these bicycle's chains from rusting without being an oily dust magnet.



I found this White Lighting - Epic Ride, Semi-Dry product. Sure enough, the package label said to use before prolong storage, long ride etc. It looks and feels clean on the chain and doesn't seem to attract dust. It fit the bill.

But with nice weather came a desire to ride my classic wall-hanger. And although the chain is newish and the 105 equipment has always been quite and smooth..... it now seems silent. The performance impressed me enough I am now using this lube (with similar results) on my daily rider. Maybe 300 miles of use.... and I love this stuff! Quite and clean... oh... and cheap to buy too.

So now I am stuck with wondering.... what's wrong with this stuff?

wphamilton

Nothing is wrong with it, except that it washes off easier than wet lube. I'd use it all of the time it it wasn't so wet here.

dr_lha

What's wrong with it? Not much, I used it for thousands of miles and it worked great.

I suppose some might baulk at using a product on their bikes that's sold in the Wal-mart bike department!

Dave Cutter

Thanks! Well I won't try it on the rain-bike then. I try to stay off the wet roads with my daily rider. I really like seeing the chrome chains look shiny!

Dave Cutter

Yes. That was part of my concern. But it also sells at one LBS.

dr_lha

It was originally recommended to me by my LBS when I bought my bike.

Eric S.

It wasn't that exact product, but I used White Lightning for awhile and it would eventually gum up between the cassette cogs.

I've been using DuPont Teflon Chain Saver for about 3 years now. Lasts a long time before having to re-apply.

mtnbke

White Lighting makes great lubes, which is why they've transcended just selling at the LBS, REI, and mail-order houses, and are now available as the ubiquitous go-to lube at Wal-Mart.

A much more intelligent offering than average lubes in that they offer a Clean, Hybrid, and Wet lube. I prefer Clean Ride as its very dusty in Colorado and wet lube with road grime and dust kills a drivetrain. A clean lube flakes off the dust and grime. You wouldn't use a Dry lube in a wet environment, or for TONS of mileage in a single go, that would be for their Wet product. The Epic is kind of their in-between hybrid. While I love Clean Ride, if you're going to ride longer than 50 miles you need to reapply it.

White Lightning - Compare Our Lubes

Scooty Puff Jr

I've never had any issues with White Lightning lubes, been using them for 15 years, I like them all. Who cares if Walmart sells them, they're still the same quality lube.

cyccommute 

I've used White Lightning exclusively since it came out (late 90s?) in lots of areas of the country where people tell you it can't work. It works just fine everywhere that I've ridden my bike...from Vermont to Oregon and from the Detroit to Shreveport. I've used it in rain, in cold, in snow and in heat without problems. Yes, it has to be applied following riding in rain but any lubrication has to be reapplied following rain.

My daughter used it in Seattle for the two years she went to grad school there and said it work just fine. Frankly, I don't know if she knows that any other chain lube exists.

Most recently, I used it on a 1500 mile tour around Lake Erie. I had to reapply lube 3 or 4 times but each one was following a rainstorm.


You can find it in lots of places but people don't like it because it's not "oil". Those of us who use it, especially in the Southwest, know how well it works and are willing to go out of our way to find it.

The reason that it gums up the cassette cogs is because people think it has to be applied more often.

Every 50 miles?! No, it doesn't need to be reapplied every 50 miles nor 100 nor even every 200. I generally go between 6 and 8 weeks at 100 to 120 miles per week before having to reapply. On my tour, I went an average of 375 miles but even that is deceptive because the rains that I got caught in were random events. I had to reapply chain lubrication at 200 miles (rain), after another 200 miles (rain), then rode for 780 miles without reapplying (rain), then 182 miles (rain) and did the final 270 miles without having to apply chain lube.

If I would have followed your schedule, I would have been stopping every day to reapply chain lubrication as I was doing most days over 50 miles...some way over. That would be silly and unnecessary. My chain, which was new when I started, is still in very good shape. I could certainly do another 1500 mile tour on it without problems.

Use White Lightning sparingly, Dave Cutter. You certainly don't need to use it every 50 or 100 miles. That just leads to making a mess and, frankly, wasting the lubricant. Use it when it's needed which is far more than the mileages suggested above in dry conditions. I'm not a fan of buying the lubricant at Helmart but I do have a couple of their bottles. The 2 oz. size is a very convenient size for touring or carrying in a tool kit.

Dave Cutter

I haven't toured any yet.... and being retired I don't commute. I keep my bikes pretty clean. So washing and oiling my bike after getting caught in a storm... is normal for me.

randomgear

Ummm, if they are wall hangers, why not wax them with car wax and then occasionally dust them?
Even "dry" lube would be stickier than polished car wax.

jyl

How much rain can the chain take before you need to reapply this stuff?.

mtnbke

OMG. This guy again.

Cyccommute - and AGAIN, it seems to be lost on you that White Lightning isn't a lube, they are a maker of Chain lubes called Clean Ride (Dry), Epic Ride (Hybrid), Wet Ride (heavy oil), and Easy Lube. I'm not sure that Clean Ride and Easy Lube aren't actually the same self-cleaning wax based product. Maybe they are different. In multiple posts now in multiple threads you've now posted to the effect of NOT understanding that White Lightning makes lube products, but it isn't a lube product. The Lube Products are Clean Ride, Epic Ride, Wet Ride, and Easy Lube. In the previous thread you posted something to the effect that adding lubricating a chain on a schedule wasn't advisable because in your opinion it would only attract more dirt and grime. When I tried to explain to you that, yes, this would be true for Wet Ride, but in an environment where dust, dirt and grime were factors Wet Ride or a heavy oil lube wouldn't be appropriate anyway. You then claimed you volunteer every Saturday in a bike Coop, and you knew this, but either you were being disingenuous in the first place, or you truly didn't realize there are three types of chain lubes.

We've been through this before. When you post to the effect that "White Lightning" works in different environments (I think you said rain, cold, snow, heat). Posting with that language makes me think you still don't use White Lightning or understand about Chain lubes. White Lightning isn't a chain lubricant. White Lightning Clean Ride, White Lightning Epic Ride, or White Lightning Wet Ride are chain lubricants. You would NEVER ever use the same White Lightning product in a rain environment, snow environment, or dry desert environment. At the very minimum in the rain/snow the choice would only be White Lightning Wet Ride. The heavy oil lubricant has water repelling polymers and advertised as being completely waterproof and won't wash away from moisture. In the rain you would never use Clean Ride as the moisture would completely just wash away the wax/dry lubricant.

Clean ride is for gritty/dirty/sandy dry conditions. It needs to be applied every 50 miles per White Lightning, MORE often in a wet/rainy environment because it just isn't formulated to be an effective chain lubricant in the wet. Its just simply the WRONG lube for rain and snow. What it is designed for is to minimize chain, ring, and cog wear from dirt/grit/dust that would otherwise accumulate and stick to a wet oily chain. The wax based lube literally just flakes the chain contaminants off constantly leaving you a clean lubricated chain. In the dry. Not in the wet. Not for high milage. Less than 50 miles per ride in DRY conditions. In Wet Conditions it essentially needs to constantly be reapplied because it doesn't effectively work in wet conditions. Its the WRONG lube for wet/snow. Clean Ride is best for keeping your chain clean and dirty rides. Clean Ride is a short lasting chain lubricant. Epic ride is longer lasting, and Wet Ride is the longest lasting.

Epic ride is kind of a hybrid or combo lubricant. Think of it as a balance between Clean Ride and Wet Ride, when neither is strictly appropriate. Say if your'e in a dry, dusty, dirty environment and don't want to use a heavy oil based lube like Wet Ride, but doing more milage (greater than 50 miles) than Clean Ride can handle, but not so much mileage that you want all the dirt/dust and a dirty chain that you'd get with a Wet Ride or heavy oil product. Or say you're in a wet, snowy environment but want to have a cleaner chain than Wet Ride or heavy oil lubricants would allow. Epic Ride is not "best" for anything. It is better than Clean Ride in terms of being longer lasting and in wet weather, but not as good as Wet Ride. It is better than Wet Ride in terms of keeping the chain cleaner and in dirty environments, but not as good as Clean Ride.

Wet ride is what you use in the wet and the snow. Its chemical composition is advertised to be waterproof and water repelling. Its what you'd use when riding serious mileage outside the scope of use of Clean Ride (only 50 miles). If you were going to do Paris-Brest-Paris or riding in RAAM this might be your lube. You're on the road, not really in a dirty environment and putting a ton of mileage in daily. When you need a very long lasting chain lubricant that just lasts and lasts this is it. When you need something that won't get washed away by snow, rain, or even mud (cyclocross anyone?) this is the lubricant you choose. When touring near coastal salt-water air this is your lubricant (better use framesaver!). Wet ride is best for lasting the longest of any White Lightning chain lubricant and for crappy weather. For ultra-long distances this is your lubricant, for bad weather this is your lubricant. It is not your lubricant for keeping a "clean" chain as the heavy synthetic oil composition that is almost impervious to being washed away by weather will stick to and hold on to gunk, grime, and dirt.

You keep posting about lubricants as if they are all the same. You didn't seem to understand the difference between a dry/wax lube (White Lightning Clean Ride), a hybrid/combo lube (White Lightning Epic Ride), or a Wet/Oil Lube (White Lightning Wet Ride). Talking about how White Lightning worked for you in the dry/heat, rain and snow makes no sense. First you don't seem to grasp that there are three White Lightning chain lubricant products, then you are talking about environments where it would be appropriate to either use Clean Ride or Wet Ride ideally, or compromise and use Epic Ride. There is no generic White Lightning lube. The choices are Clean Ride, Epic Ride, or Wet Ride (and also Easy Lube).

For your daughter in Seattle she'd want Wet Ride. For a 1500 tour around Lake Erie you'd use Wet Ride. You said you had to reapply your White Lightning 3 to 4 times after a rainstorm. If you were using the appropriate Wet Ride its impervious to rain, and for that mileage it would be your ideal choice. You wouldn't need to reapply it after a rainstorm.

Again your post seems to poorly communicate your thoughts. You don't seem to understand the three lubricant products in the White Lightning lubricant offerings. YES! You do need to reapply Clean Ride every 50 miles. That's the manufacturers (White Lightning) recommendation. I'm not sure, again, you understand what a dry/wax lubricant is. Clean Ride just doesn't "last" longer than that. If you ride more than 50 miles before you'd reapply lubricant, and you aren't riding in a really dirty, grimy, gritty environment you'd switch to Epic Ride which would give you longer lubing intervals.

You said you were going 370 miles before relubing. The choice that would be ideal there would be Wet Ride for that mileage. You said you had to relube for rainstorms. You don't have to relube Wet Ride because it rains.

Your comments about following the 50 mile schedule being silly and unnecessary seem to reveal you still don't get the context. There isn't just "White Lightning" chain lubricant, but three distinct products. When touring you of course wouldn't choose Clean Ride because its very composition REQUIRES you to reapply every 50 miles. That is exactly a time where you'd compromise and use Epic Ride in a dirty, grimy, gritty environment or just fully go to Wet Ride for the rain resistance. Either way Clean Ride, which the 50 mile schedule is dictated by, wouldn't be appropriate. So your point is just either disingenuous, or you still don't understand the differences between the White Lightning offerings, or a Dry/Was, Hybrid/Combo, or Heavy/Oil lubricant. Regardless of which it is, why you are commenting as if you are knowledgeable and sharing your advise seems strange. This is now TWO THREADS where you are sharing chain lubricant advise where you don't seem to understand the context of the thread, or the different types of lubricants.

Before you posted that you were an engineer and that you volunteered in a bike Coop, seeming to infer that either of these made you an expert. If you want to effectively or properly communicate anything you can NOT just talk about White Lightnign chain lubricants. You would talk about the DIFFERENT products in context, Clean Ride, Epic Ride, or Wet Ride. To do anything else is either just confusion or being disingenuous and contributes nothing to the conversation.

Here is a link, again, hope this clears it up for you:

White Lightning - Lubricants

mtnbke

Ignore cyccommute.

He doesn't know what he's talking about and seems to either be confusing the three different White Lightning chain lubricant products OR is being deliberately disingenuous. You do NOT need to reapply a Heavy/Oil type lubricant like Wet Ride just because it got wet or rained. White Lightning Wet Ride is formulated to be water repellant and to not wash away from rainstorms, snow, or moisture:

White Lightning - Wet Ride?

Quite simply, that's what its for.

mtnbke

You need to locate that answer in a proper context. Just talking about White Lightning "lubricant" without talking about Clean Ride, Epic Ride, or Wet Ride is just confusing and/or deliberately disingenuous.

Clean Ride - You would need to reapply if your chain was exposed to ANY moisture or rain. This is NOT the appropriate chain lubricant to be using in wet weather or where the chain will be exposed to moisture. If you are riding the bike with Clean Ride as your chain lubricant it is good for no more than 50 miles in dry conditions. It is essentially useless in wet conditions. If you were caught out in wet weather you'd want to apply a combo/hybrid lubricant or a heavy/oil lubricant right then and there if you carry that in your saddle bag or bike trunk.

Epic Ride - Whether you need to reapply depends on how much riding you did in the rain. Simply put its a function of how wet the chain was getting from the rain and how many miles you were doing. Hybrid/Combo lubricants like this are good at everything but great at nothing. Essentially the heavy oil component of the formulation means you need to reapply it less often than Clean Ride, but the dry wax component means you need to reapply it more often than Wet Ride.

Wet Ride - You do NOT need to reapply Wet Ride just because it rained. Wet Ride is the lubricant you put on your chain because it will be exposed to rain. It is a waterproof chain lubricant , and rain does not wear it off the chain or wash it away. You would only clean your chain and reapply Wet Ride when you've reached the point of having a pretty dirty chain, as grit, grime, and dirt wears chains/rings/cogs. You might also wipe down your chain and reapply if you've done a TON of miles. You might reapply Wet Ride during rest stops if you were doing the Paris-Brest-Paris brevet. When you're riding 1200km in less than 90 hours, getting every last watt to the road counts. You don't reapply Wet Ride just because it rained, its impervious to rain. You reapply it because of doing significant mileage in the rain. How often? That's the rub. Your milage may vary with conditions. Randonneurs actually used to use a drip hose system to lube the chain while they rode extreme mileage. I'm not sure anyone does that anymore, but it was an interesting bit of bike accessory in a different era.

cyccommute 

It probably is for most people no matter what chain lube they use.

Quite a lot, actually. I've never stopped in the middle of a rainstorm to reapply it...what sense would that make...and I've had to ride all day (50 to 80 miles) in rain on occasion. Even when I get caught in rain and the rain doesn't last all day, I'm don't stop and immediately reapply chain lubricant. There is simply no need to. It can wait until I stop for the day.

jyl

Sounds too complicated for me. I lube my chain when it starts to get noisy.

Dave Cutter

I wondered about something like that. I have a couple wall hangers.... but I am also a regular rider of modern bikes. And... I like to occasionally take my vintage bikes out for a ride. I don't mind dusting my wall hangers (and have to in the winter months). But when the sun is shining I refer to take the old bikes for a nice ride. Then I wash them up, re-lube, and hang them back on the wall.... ready and waiting for the next ride.

What do other "collectors" use on their display bicycle chains?

cyccommute 

Yes, this guy again.

I don't have to list each different lubricant that White Lightning makes each time I talk about the product(s). I understand the differences...it has to do with the type of soft wax they put in their different mixtures...but they really don't make that much difference. I've tried Epic. I even have a bottle of it that I hardly ever use. It's not that different from Clean Ride (more on that later).

You are under the misguided impression that you should never use any other White Lightning product for any application other then what the company intended. It's not the cut and dried. I ride out in the real world where I get rained on occasionally, where I ride in dirt occasionally, and where I ride on pavement occasionally. Sometimes all three in the same ride. I'm not going to stop and remove the WL lubricant that is good for dry and replace it with the one that is good for rain just because a few raindrops fall. I'm certainly not going to stop and change the lubricant because I'm caught in a deluge...which I have been. I'm more concerned with keeping me dry and comfortable. The bike...and the chain lube...will handle the rain.

You think that you settled this previously. You haven't. Not even close. I use the Clean Ride (the original White Lightning formulation) in every one of those conditions without issue. I've used it for the better part of 20 years without any problems. I don't track chain wear but I also don't go through a lot of chains, either. You may feel you need to change WL lubricant to match the conditions but I don't. How many miles do you have under your belt while using WL products? I've got roughly 70,000 in a roughly 50:50 mix of road and mountain with about 40,000 winter time miles and 10,000 touring miles. I've only ever used the "Clean Ride".

No. Clean Ride does not need to be applied every 50 miles in dry conditions. It's just not necessary. Excess usage just leads to build up on the drivetrain and is the primary fault people have with the product. You've also not signed any kind of contract with WL that says "you shall refresh Clean Ride lubricant at 50 miles, no exceptions!" Also, the every 50 mile suggested interval sells more product. You don't actually "lather, rinse, repeat" when you use shampoo do you? All that does is double sales.

And it is also a GOOD lube for wet and snow. It works just fine.


I do very long mileage rides. I do self contained tours of up to 1500 miles. I've many of these over the past several years with most of the focus on the east and southeast. I've ridden my touring bike in rain storms, on dirt roads, on muddy trails, and in heat and humidity. I've only ever used Clean Ride. I also ride throughout the winter I've never found any of the WL products necessary. I already carry a lot of stuff, I don't need to add 3 more bottles of lubricant...and a 55 gallon drum of Clean Ride...to the mix.

Sorry if my referring to "Clean Ride" as "White Lightning" offends you but there was once a "generic" White Lightning. The problem with the offense in yours, however, not mine.

You completely missed the point. My daughter no longer lives in Seattle. I've done my tour around Lake Erie. These are events in the past and situations where WL "Clean Ride" (so as not to offend you further) has worked very well.

No lubricant is "impervious" to rain. Even the wettest of oil based lubricants will be washed off in a rain storm.

And, again, NO you don't need to reapply Clean Ride every 50 miles. There is no need. Over many years of experience with WL (Clean Ride if you want), I have never found it to need application after only 50 miles. The drivetrain isn't making noise and the drivetrain's shifting isn't suffering. There are simply no indicators after 50 miles that the chain needs to be relubricated if I am riding under normal conditions.


Try again. Most of my intervals were 200 miles and I reapplied after rain mostly as a prophylactic measure. I rode 780 miles without needing to apply lubricant...which so as not to make you angry was "Clean Ride" because that is what I was carrying. The bicycle worked flawlessly for the entire trip. I've even ridden it since then and it still works flawlessly. I rode the bike yesterday and it hasn't been lubricated since I got back home in June. It hasn't needed it.

You keep saying the same thing over and over and over and over again. I get your context. I just happen to reject your argument that it is such a BIG deal. It isn't. I'm not being deingenuous and I fully understand the differences between the different formulations...perhaps more then you do. I just don't find the need for the different formulations in most applications where I have used White Lightning...sorry "Clean Ride".

In short, you are making a very large mountain out of a very small molehill.

I have not said that I'm an engineer. I am a chemist who understands some engineering. As a chemist, an experimentalist, and a very good observer, I can tell you that the differences between the different WL products are not as vast as you seem to think they are. Again, you are saying the same thing over and over and struggling to get up that molehill.

Yes, by all means look at that chart. Notice that they don't have a "DO NOT USE" category. They only have "GOOD", "BETTER", "BEST". Just because "Clean Ride" isn't "BEST" for some applications doesn't mean it can't be used. I read the chart as saying that the Clean Ride is a good lubricant for all those applications. You can use the others if you want but your drivetrain isn't going to explode if you happen to put Clean Ride on it and go for a ride in the rain.

You certainly can ignore me. The Bike Forums makes it easy.

cyccommute 

Exactly. I'd have to stop once every day to relube my chain on a tour and carry enough lube for 30 days of riding if I followed mtnbke's advice. I'm too busy riding to do that...not that it's even necessary.

DBrown9383

I'm a rookie here so my 2 cents doesn't mean much however I've been riding chain driven motorcycles for 42 years. For the first 30 years I used wet lubes which worked well but there was always fling off, dirty sprockets, rear wheels and sand penetration. With the newer o-ring chains, chain life improved regardless of the lube choice. I still used wet lube and would get approx. 15,000mi. from an o-ring chain before it was stretched too far and the sprockets teeth started getting sharp. For the last decade I have used a dry lube (maxima chain wax) chain and sprocket life have DOUBLED. I credit this not so much to the lube itself but the fact that sand and debris do not get into the pins/rollers/bushings. I re-apply the chain wax after riding on wet roads or in the rain and do so no more frequently than I had to with wet lube. The chain stays clean, my clothes stay clean, the rear wheel stays clean and a chain lasts 30,000mi. (1 liter super bikes) and rarely needs adjusting. Every motorcyclist I've convinced to switch from their wet lube now swears by chain wax. I have so much of the stuff I now use it on my bicycle and my wife's bicycle. I made a mistake a month ago and tried a different lube for the bicycle chains. It was a wet lube called speedX. The routes we ride have a lot of sand and it wasn't 50mi. later both bikes cassettes and chains had sand particles everywhere stuck to everything. What a mess!. I used a solvent and a toothbrush and a lot of rags to get rid of that stuff and have gone back to the chain wax. The maxima chain wax is specific for motorcycles and might be a little too heavy for the bicycles but the chains are clean, quiet and dry. I don't compete or anything so a little extra weight is no biggie. I go 200mi. between applications (unless riding in rain) and probably don't even need to re-apply that soon. I think cycocommute's advice is good, he's not some evil guy trying to destroy people's chains. He uses a dry lube and has excellent results with it and doesn't think it needs re-applied every 50mi. Where's the crime?

wphamilton

It's all kind of moot if OP doesn't ride in the rain much and doesn't mind detailing his bike after a grungy ride anyway. Epic Ride is fine. Commuting daily in the wet environment like I do, I have to apply Epic Ride every 2 or 3 days. Too much for for me, but not necessarily a deal-killer.

rmfnla

Love chain lube threads...

FBOATSB

After following this lively debate, I have decided to switch to the dry lube at the beginning of the next riding season, after a thorough cleaning of all the black gunk off my drive train.