bikerbobbbb

Interesting.

So they're supposed to look more like this? Flat on the "tips?"

bikerbobbbb

Possible chain to buy here then.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...=sr_1_1&sr=8-1
$12, free shipping
[h=1]SRAM PC 850 P-Link Bicycle Chain (8-Speed, Grey)[/h]

bikerbobbbb

Between bike riding and jogging, my knees hurt sometimes. So I usually shift down. I definitely don't have grinding gears shifting while going up a hill. There aren't too many hills here. If I got to one, I'd coast up it instead. It's mostly long slopes going a little up or down. (That's why a bike can still be useful even when it's broken. I can still coast probably half of the way here. It's weird, but true.)

I'm thinking I'll keep an eye on the chain when it's replaced. Then replace the cassette and chain rings I guess after 3-4 chains or maybe 4 years. I'm thinking maybe replace the chain every other year. Or maybe every year. I can measure it and keep a better eye on it.

I used to leave it on the largest chain ring up front and only use the right hand shifter to change the cassette gears in back. Just for convenience. Then the right shifter cable is the only one that eventually frays. I've either gotten weaker or lazier (although this sounds like it helps the gears) and started using the small two chain rings up front so it's easier to pedal. And then they started slipping down there on their own. One solid reason for switching to an easier gear was so I could dart out across traffic to cross some streets here when I needed to. Quick acceleration. But then this slipping thing started happening. I don't trust it as much to do that anymore. But I still want an easy acceleration from 0 to actually moving. Staying on a harder gear setting doesn't do that.

bikerbobbbb

Possible purchase then.
Shimano Deore M610 Crankset > Components > Drivetrain > Cranksets | Jenson USA
$50
These are a lot more expensive on Amazon.

I'd have to study this out more. I don't know how to remove these.

Or what 170mm crankarms is for sure... Length I'd imagine. My bike model has low pedals already. If I turn too sharply the pedal have scraped the ground a few times. I wonder what I've got now for pedal/crankarm length....


???
https://www.bikepedia.com/quickbike/B...del=Detour+4.5
Crankset Shimano FC-M191, 28/38/48 teeth

Found this...
https://bike.shimano.com/media/techdo...9830657743.pdf
...Says crankarm length is 170mm. So the crankset above matches in length. But why not get the exact same one, if they still make it?

Because it was discontinued...
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!to...ed/oHtO6Qgd5a4
I'd want to check more on that though.

Hopefully my pedals would fit. I upgraded the pedals early on so I had grip when they got wet. I would imagine those should work though. I bought a pedal wrench a year or so ago along with new pedals when my current ones started grinding. They stopped grinding though so I didn't change them.

wphamilton

You know you can't ride that bike with that chain, right?

bikerbobbbb

Possible purchase/might be good to have around.
- for popping apart chain links
Amazon.com : Park Tool USA Professional Chain Tool CT-3, 10-Speed Compatible : Bike Hand Tools : Sports & Outdoors

Spare missing links might be a good purchase once I find the right chain.


The smallest front chain ring and largest cassette in the back are waay to easy for level riding. That would be fine on a hill, medium-steep. I've barely ever used that setting.

What I do like is more power, being able to push it faster sometimes. I miss not being able to use my smallest cassette cog in the back. I haven't adjusted the shifter any. Between flat tires it did come back to where I could use it again and that was nice. The other bikes I've had (the throwaways) never had a gear where I couldn't overpedal it. That was a plus with this bike, but then the smallest cassette cog didn't alway click in with the shifting. If there's a way to get a larger chain ring up front.... That sounds interesting.

Not quite following...
" as it's gonna make your high gear about 11-12% lower."
Lower? Easier to pedal (not physically lower, right?)? The small chain ring in front with the largest cassette in back is pretty much useless to me. Maybe if I was in a park or on a trial path during a bike ride for fun I might use that if the hill was that steep. For level riding that I'm doing 99% of the time, it's useless. (But it does line the chain up straight, so it's not wearing the chain out. Haha.)

bikerbobbbb

You can't? Haha. You can coast on a bike. No pedalling. I would like it, but if I didn't want to walk where I live I can coast halfway to places. It also looks a bit stupid but it's still easier than walking sometimes. I'd probably pay someone to fix the bike at point.




I think I'm caught up. Some chain possibilities here I think. That's the next step.
Chain.
Then cassette probably.
Then chain rings.

wphamilton

7-speed chain is less than $9 on Amazon, delivered in two days.

I've ridden on as bad, but only briefly. One or two hard pushes on the crank will pull it apart.

bikerbobbbb

I need to regroup on this. Other things have come up...

Watched some youtube videos last night. I noticed some stress just from watching. Part is the newness, being overwhelmed by a couple videos with the terms and info (that was the gear ratio video). Add in the thought of being stuck without transportation or just that my bike is crappy (works well enough for me, I like it). There's also the decision part for stress. Once it's known, it's easier. I want to make a good decision for the bike repair, not necessarily perfect. But that takes this research....

Is there a special tool that clips off the chain crosspeg? I saw them cutting a longer peg or just breaking it off I think. Pushing on the peg until it snaps doesn't sound like the wisest thing but maybe it depends on the brand and what it's meant to do (pre-groove to snap off correctly).
Is there a Sheldon Brown youtube video series?

I have a copy of the Jobst bike book. Flipped through it very briefly. Looks digestable, more than I was expecting.

Saw this other chain measuring tool. The flat metal one looked ok. This looks like it has more options.
https://www.amazon.com/Park-Tool-4000...rds=park+chain
Park Tool chain check, $27 though...

I noticed recently, while staring at the chain rings, that the largest one is probably slightly bent too. My bike tips over occasionally, sometimes with a full load (50lbs). The plastic cover between the chain ring and pedal cracked in one spot. Beyond the crack, that largest ring in that same spot looks very slightly bent. And that might actually be the spot where the chain is more likely to slip off too. Or not... It's not something I noticed until I watched the chain rings from above.
-- Do they make metal covers for chain rings? Plastic at the pedal level like that seems pretty cheap. That's an area that needs to take some abuse.... yet they use plastic there?

Goals for replacing the chain -- After watching the youtube videos, I should probably stick with matching what I've got as closely (if not exactly) as possible. Change one thing and then maybe the derailleur part doesn't work correctly.

My bike still is driving normally enough. I remember changing to shifting little different over the last six months or so. The chain would skip and I started clicking on the shifter twice to get it to have enuogh push back on the pedals right away. That's the teeth wearing away to the point that I actually noticed it.

I need to check if my chain has writing. If all that -- chain rings and cassette -- have more information on them.
I see there's a correct direction for putting a chain on too. I was wondering about that.

I'm thinking it's probably smart to just keep browsing any bike repair youtube video and the Jobst book even though I don't need a repair immediately. I should make a list of other stuff that will need repairs or maintenance though. I found a bike shop's site that listed their maintenance jobs, a nice list of potential repairs.

AnkleWork

The stream of unconsciousness continues unabated.

LesterOfPuppets

Avoid chain checkers. Just get a nice ruler. Park has a nice one, but hard to read. I sanded off the blue on one side of mine to make reading easier.

Also measures spokes, bearings and cotters, should the need arise.

Amazon.com: Park Tool Spoke, Bearing and Cottergauge: Sports & Outdoors

rydabent

There is chain wear, and then there is cog wear. IMO this bumps into the huge debate on how to lube the chain. All the strange ways to lube the chain can quickly wear out cogs or sprockets. Using a dry lube, or wax does not give proper lubrication to the cogs. This is why I say use oil on the chain, and it will lube the sprockets too. I personally use Mobil 1 and get outstanding mileage out of my chains.

RoadGuy

I'd suggest a 8-speed chain that's made specifically for use with a triple crankset. KMC X8.93 chains have reinforced sideplates designed to take the side forces that are generated on drivetrains with triple cranksets. You can buy a new KMC X8.93 from multiple eBay Sellers for less than $12, including shipping.

As for a chain tool, I recommend getting a larger one that the Park Tool compact CT-5. Modern chain designs have cross pins that are difficult to push in and out compared to old 5-speed straight cross-pins, and compact chain tools do not have the strength to push out the flared or mushroomed pins on modern chains. I owned a Park Tool CT-5 and it worked for years until I started working on KMC chains. After breaking a couple of KMC chains, the handle bent, and the frame started to tweeks. I traded the bent CT-5 back in at Performance Bicycle where I bought it, and got a Park Tool CT-3.2. It cost me about $35 (minus the cost/trade-in of the CT-5), and it is worth the extra money. Has a bigger frame that doesn't flex, and a longer thicker handle that hasn't bent (yet).

KMC, and SRAM chains include a reusable link, so a chain breaker is not required to open the chain (chain breaker still required to shorten a new chain). Shimano chains still use a single use replacement pin (one included with each new chain).

skoda2

+1, and I suspect the ' NICE' bike shop guy did the work for free!

randomgear

Surprised someone hasn't mention it yet, or you haven't broken that chain, but you really (and I mean its a super bad idea almost enough to label this a Darwin Award) shouldn't be using a chain with a separated link. It will fail, more than likely at an inopportune time and you will very likely feel a sensation commonly referred to as PAIN and maybe worse.

Don't ride your ride until you replace that chain.

randomgear

BTW, I would expect your LBS to charge you extra just from the amount of filth that is built up.

Of course, if you clean your bike, you might find something else that is broken.

Andrew R Stewart 

+1. Not so much directed at any one here but to all out there. I teach a few maintenance classes each year, shop and club. The cleaning thing I visit frequently and not because I think that one should "wear clean underwear not only when going to the doctor or on a date" but that by getting up close to your bike and touching it all over you both learn about it and start to understand it better. In time you begin to be able to recognize things before they become issues or broken parts. To continue the people analogies- Just like a relationship takes learning the other's manor having a reliable bike takes learning and maintaining too. When you pay others fix your relationship only when it has broken down the problem isn't what broke down, it's not paying attention to it before. Andy.

Ronsonic 

ICTIAT,

Walk into any bike store, or your nearest full-sized walmart. Buy a chain. ANY 5-8 speed chain will do $9-$15 will get you as good or better than what came with the bike. Buy a Chain Tool. Break and remove the old chain. Scrub your nasty, filthy drivetrain with WD40 and an old toothbrush - you already have these things. Apply a real oil to them - if you have it. Shorten the new chain to the same length as the old. Use the included link and snap it in place. Open a beer.





*In Case This Isn't A Troll

ltxi

After seeing the pic, why is anyone taking this question seriously? I mean, this here's just seriously funny and all but.....

bikerbobbbb

Regrouping again....

The cassette is probably the easiest part to replace. I think. Get an (exact) match, swap it in. It's also reversible.

Chain -- I want to get two. One as a backup. There are some ideas for chains on here. Once I break the though, I could only shorten it a link a think. Somewhat reversible.

Chain rings -- That's more involved. I'm thinking I'd need a new tool somewhere. I've got new pedals from when one pedal started creaking before. And I've got the tool for the pedal I'm pretty sure. I would think the pedal is just twisting off the old, twisting on the new. Once I start messing with the crankset stuff, at least for now, it's a lot less reversible. That's another situation where it has to be done right the first time. And I can't ride my bike until it's fixed.

The right pedal started creaking. Bad bearings, something like that. That's happened before with other pedals. The next step up for pedals that didn't use bearings was $50+ with gold colored studs in them. Gaudy.


It's gone away a bit, but the rear cassette, on the smaller cogs, weren't quite sticking a couple weeks ago.


What would you recommend for a cassette? I need to research it more to see if I can find an exact match. My goal is just to replace things as closely with what's on there now. Exactly if I can.

bikerbobbbb

Collecting chain information....

8-speed chain that's made specifically for use with a triple crankset.
KMC X8.93 chains have reinforced sideplates designed to take the side forces that are generated on drivetrains with triple cranksets.
KMC X8.93 from multiple eBay Sellers for less than $12, including shipping.

recommend getting a larger one that the Park Tool compact CT-5
recommends this one instead Park Tool CT-3.2

KMC, and SRAM chains include a reusable link, so a chain breaker is not required to open the chain (chain breaker still required to shorten a new chain). Shimano chains still use a single use replacement pin (one included with each new chain).



Chain link tool I was looking at before....
https://www.amazon.com/Park-Tool-Prof...ords=Park+CT-3
Park Tool Screw Type Chain Tool - CT-3
$28.43


https://www.amazon.com/Park-Tool-CC-3...KZYVAFDE3AD0HR
Park Tool CC-3.2 Chain Wear Indica
$10
-- Chain measuring tool I ran across. Might be to have but in the future. It's probably a safe bet that my chain is worn out.



Another chain I found on Amazon with the model recommendation from here.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...iglink20253-20
SRAM PC 850 P-Link Bicycle Chain (8-Speed, Grey)
$12.26



---------



A recommended cassette

https://www.universalcycles.com/shop...17&category=42
Shimano CS-HG50 Sora 8 Speed Cassette
$30
-- Lots of options here, like the spokes. Looks like they're counting teeth... Teeth and rings...



-------------
A recommended crankset

https://www.jensonusa.com/!-5PcBR6NZ9...tm_medium=AVLK
Shimano Deore M610 Crankset
out of stock

I would need to check that my pedals fit that.

And my crankset was discontinued. But it's 170mm.

Here's another with a quick search.
https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/u.../rp-prod106873
Shimano Deore M610 10 Speed Triple Chainset
$65.49


Hm....
No cover on it to protect a pant leg?
Might be a dumb question, but do these come with both "pedal arms?" It's only got the right side in these pics... I was picturing for a crankset that it's the left and right pedal arm, the three chain rings, and everything inside the bike frame between the pedal arms.
Looks like this one comes in black or silver. Not a huge concern, but the option is nice.


Cool, for showing the pieces... and holy cow for that price.
https://www.amazon.com/SHIMANO-Deore-.../dp/B00DU6OWE6
SHIMANO Deore M610 MTB Groupset Group Set 10 speeds 7pcs
$246.95
... because it's a "group set"

???
Shimano SM-BB51 Bottom Backet
This might be the piece that goes through the frame of the bike....

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-Shiman...-/141670481810
And this page lists the crankset as separate from the bottom bracket....
... So if I'm only getting the crankset, that needs to match my current bottom bracket.
This one just has crankset and bottom bracket. It looks like that left arm is included in the crankset then....

If the chain ring teeth are worn, I don't suppose there's a reason to replace the bottom bracket then...?

Is this how the pedal arms attach?
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/dHuXRHUCxsA/hqdefault.jpg
Looks like it... at least the left one.
I suppose if the crankset didn't come with a left pedal arm, as long as they're the same length/close enough, I could keep using the current left one. One less thing to mess with, one less potential screw up.

Bottom Bracket Sealed cartridge from my specs page.... whatever this means.
https://www.bikepedia.com/quickbike/B...del=Detour+4.5
BB Shell WidthUnspecified

I wonder how the right crank arm/chain ring/pedal arm attaches to that bottom bracket....

Ah... There is a tool...
https://www.amazon.com/BIKEHAND-Bicyc...ZWC3W96ZVYH2EY
BIKEHAND Bike Bicycle Shimano Bottom Bracket Removal Remover Tool
$7
Looks like the rear wheel cassette hub tool.
Except I'm thinking I don't need to remove my bottom bracket or replace it. Hopefully. If I do, I do. If not, why mess with it?

Another tool....
https://www.amazon.com/Park-Tool-Pull...CVVAJZ64SGMQ7Q
Park Tool Crank Puller for Square Taper Cranks
$14


Ah, found the crankset on Amazon I think....
https://www.amazon.com/Shimano-FC-M61...ano+Deore+M610
Shimano FC-M610 42/32/24T 10-Speed Deore Crankset
$62.58 + $32.91 shipping expensive shipping....
They never show the other side or a left pedal arm in these....
-- Says it include a bottom bracket.... Hollowtech II design includes bottom bracket (68/73mm)
-- Does not include chainguard I wonder if I can get one separately and add it on.

A chain guard is something I want. My pant leg will get greased for sure. My current chain guard is cracked. Metal might be good. Something tough. Replaceable would be good -- My bike tips over once in a while. I think that's how my current chain guard got cracked.


Found one chain guard with a quick search. So they do exist separately....
https://www.amazon.com/FSA-Alloy-Cros...rds=chainguard
FSA 42T Alloy Cross Chainring Guard (130mm BCD)
$20
I'd need to research to find a match for my bike though.



-----
The cassette is probably the simplest. Just a swap I think. But it might need grease. Some study to prep on that would be good, unless people here say it's just swapping parts. I wouldn't be surprised if something needs to be greased though.

The chain takes a little more thought, but I've got links to videos here.

The crankset I still need information on. I'm not sure how that's taken apart. I might need a special tool for that I would think.

=========
My bike specs again....
https://www.bikepedia.com/quickbike/B...del=Detour+4.5

Chain KMC HG40, 1/2 x 3/32"

Crankset Shimano FC-M191, 28/38/48 teeth

This must be the cassette...?
Rear Cogs 8-speed, 11 - 32 teeth


---------------
The goal would be to get an exact or as close to exact match as possible. I'm thinking cassette and chain ring teeth. I don't want anything to move a little so that it requires adjusting the shifting settings. Because I don't know how to do that very well at all. If it's a match... Just swap in new parts and the settings should be about right still.

Potentially I have a list of workable parts here...
Cassette --- Need to check it's the right one and matches one -- teeth and rings. And check the general process for swapping one in (ie need to grease it?)
Bike chain -- Need to check it's a match. Need to review how to swap in the chain, depending on which one I get.
Crankset -- Need more info, but it's heading in the right direction. Left arm included? Need to change the bottom bracket? Any special tools? I need a chain guard too or definitely want one. Does it match my bike for sure? Process for replacing that?

This can be done in steps. Cassette looks easiest. Then chain. Then crankset looks most challenging. But still probably all doable.

Unless my bike dies now. Then I'd either walk, buy something as a temp fix, buy this stuff as a rushed purchase, or give up and take it to a bike shop to fix. I "want to" fix these myself, but time and energy aren't always there. I suppose the cost of driving a car would add up, compared to the cost of temp or rushed-purchase parts, and then compared to having a bike shop do the repair.... Although if a bike shop does it.... Say cassette $20, chain $15, cranket $70... ~$100 for parts... then labor... I would guess they'd charge $130-300 for this. Versus me doing this for $100-150 and having the improved learned skills and tools available for the next time. For sure, I'll need to know how to swap on a chain again in the future. The crankset and cassette (except cassette looks easy) is more of a 6-year fix thing I think. Or less if I replace the chain more often.

Focus-wise... cassette and chain replacement. Then I can research the crankset more or I'll have more info from here by then. If I narrow in on the parts and process -- I may already have the parts here -- and get the chain tools.... I could have the cassette and chain swapped in in January 2016 without too much issue. ~4 hours on a weekend, moreso for the chain. I've already replaced spokes so the cassette looks very easy if it's just popping a new one in place of the old.

jyl

In the time you've wasted searching the internet, copying links, and typing dozens of long repetitive posts, you could have fixed your bike by now.

Your chain is completely worn out and unsafe to ride. Do not ride your bike until the chain is replaced. Your chainrings (the large one at least, probably the middle one too) are completely worn out. A new chain will skip on those chainrings. Your cassette or freewheel is completely worn out too. A new chain will skip on that cassette or freewheel.

You need to (1) replace chain, chainrings, and cassette or freewheel, (2) start regularly cleaning, lubricating, and replacing your chain, (3) learn to maintain your bike instead of riding it until things break.

More generally, you need to get help in person (bike shop, bike co-op). It is impossible for anyone to help you via this forum. You write too much, don't write clearly, don't listen to/read responses, and seem to have trouble making decisions and taking action.

gsa103

Honestly, its time to just buy a new bike. Take all the money you were going to spend repairing, buy a brand new bike, then focus on properly maintaining that one.

Your drivetrain is 100% shot, you need a new crank, chain, cassette. Even cheap versions that's over $100 easy, and could easily hit more like $200 with tools etc, which is half the price of a decent new bike. Given the condition of those items, plus a balky pedal, I'm going to hazard a guess that the tires are done, the wheel bearings are in bad shape, and there's likely a few other issues with shifter cables and brakes.

Think of it this way, your bike is the equivalent 1995 Chevy Cobalt with a blown motor and lots of rust.

bikerbobbbb

I'm also going to need to count teeth and measure (diameter?) on my cassette and chain rings... so I know they match up with what I'll purchase.

bikerbobbbb

The point with this bike is to replace everything. When I got it, they same the bike is the frame. Everything else can be repaired/replaced. If I do it myself it's cheaper. Plus, I've invested time in studying out my parts and figuring out how I repair things on this bike. I've got spare parts ready to go, brand new.

This is also writing to my future self. If things work, I've figured it out here. If they don't, I can go back and see where the error is.

It is a slow process, but I don't want to waste money. Measure three times, cut once. That idea.

The internet is full of gurus who can get insulted if you don't do what they say just because they say it. I need my own final stamp or approval before I attempt a repair and or buy things. I'm not convinced enough yet to do these fixes or spend money. Once I take the dive, like the spokes, then I've got that fix down. I'm very confident I can fix spokes on my bike now.

My bike also has baskets, etc. I'd say it was more like $700 for everything. If I scrap that, then I'm starting over, looking for a new bike that matches me and my needs. And then I'll eventually run into these same issues -- exactly what parts do I have, how do I fix them, etc. It's still going to be cheaper to do this myself, and I'm still interested in it. I'll have the skill down (enough at least), the tools, and I'll know where my bike's at. I can't trust the first bike shop after the work they did.

Tires, inner tubes... That I've got down. Those are less than six months old.

What are the wheel bearings?