Deontologist

I applied probably too much Loctite 609 to the BB of my bike and now the crank is stuck in place no matter how hard I dare hit it with a rubber mallet.

I am going to take it to the LBS tomorrow.

I am a bit concerned that they will damage the frame somehow in removing the crank.

How can I protect myself in a worst case scenario?

brianmcg123

Sounds like you have already ruined it. Why would it be their fault?

Deontologist

The frame is fine. It's just the crank is stuck in place. Loctite 609 is a medium-strength retaining compound and plenty of people recommend using it along with several manufacturers.

I heard that using a hair dryer can help with removal, but I don't have a hair dryer, and I don't want to try to smack my bike any more with a mallet. Well, I just don't want to do it myself, because I might end up damaging it because I have almost 0 experience servicing press-fit BBs.

I'm taking it to the LBS to capitalize on their experience. In the back of my mind I'm just concerned they'll damage it.

I guess I could take pictures of the frame to show that no where was cracked or otherwise damaged the day before I take it to them, but it would still be a case of my word vs. theirs right in the worst case scenario?

RoadGuy

So what you're saying is that you screwed up, and you're going to take your bike to the bike shop so in case the frame cracks while trying to correct your mistake, the bike shop can have the pleasure of buying you a new frame?

That's messed up. Most any mechanical shop will tell you that they are not responsible for any damage you caused, or that stems from any action that you direct them to perform.

Put on your big boy pants and own up to your mistake when you go to the shop. It may help prevent any damage (that the shop will not be responsible for) since you admit that you created the problem, and the shop may be able to alter their technique for loosening the bearings, since they will know what you did.

jimincalif

I have no idea if applying heat is the thing to do, but if it is you can buy a cheap hair dryer for $15. Since you're that concerned about what the shop will do, maybe you should try this yourself.

cmon4day

Go buy a hair dryer and see if it works

bwgride

Not sure why anyone would put loctite on bb. Those things are difficult enough to uninstall without any glue compound added.

Plimogz

From the Henkel technical pdf (https://tds.loctite.com/tds5/docs/609-EN.PDF) :

For Disassembly Apply localized heat to the assembly to approximately 250°C. Disassemble while hot.

There is a chart graphing hot strength of the adhesive which looks like the product should have lost virtually all of its strength around 175°C.

CliffordK

Apparently the Park page (and others) recommend Loctite 609 for bearing cup installation with BB30 bottom brackets.

Bottom Bracket Standards - Park Tool

Where did you put the loctite? What is stuck?

According to this page, you carefully put loctite on the outer bearing races (race to bb shell), and grease on the inner races (race to crank spindle).
How To: BB30 Overhaul/Bearing Replacement | Volagi Cycles

The hair dryer (or a heat gun) should help some. However, you want to be very careful not to damage the plastic of a CF frame. If you loosen the BB shell, the frame is trashed.

Anyway, AT THIS POINT, YOU'RE NOT PROTECTING YOURSELF FROM THE LBS. THE LBS NEEDS TO PROTECT ITSELF FROM YOU!!! It sounds like you've made a mess and want the LBS to fix it for you. And, if something you've damaged ends up broken, you wish to blame them.

Are there experts? You could talk to Calfee and ask them for a repair quote.

Or, perhaps, cut the crankset out, one piece at a time.

SkyDog75

Some manufacturers and other sources (like Park Tool HERE) recommend using a retaining compound like Loc-Tite 609 on press-fit bottom brackets like BB30 to reduce the possibility of creaking.

I've also read a number of references to using Loc-Tite blue threadlocker for the fixed cups on French and Italian threaded bottom brackets since precession tends to loosen those.

But back to the topic at hand... If you take it to the shop, tell them what the situation is and tell them your concerns. Let them know that it may be difficult to get out and let them know how aggressive you want them to be. That way, you're on the same page BEFORE damage potentially happens. If you're afraid they might damage it, you have two options: (1) Don't have them do the work, or (2) have them give it a shot and acknowledge that YOU are bearing the risk.

As for using heat to remove Loc-Tite 609... The manufacturer says that the product can be removed with heat, but their spec sheets advise temperatures of 250 degress Celsius. Maybe less heat will soften it somewhat, but I'm doubtful it would let go without getting it really hot.

Andrew R Stewart 

I'm glad the OP isn't bringing the problem to where I work. Then I'd have two challenges. One is the Bb removal (and I can think of a few ways to remove it, each with their concerns depending on the actual situation). The other is the attitude that the Op brings in the door. I have learned to refuse some work. Rarely done but my hair is less gray then it might have been because of this option. Andy.

Andrew R Stewart 

I will add that I am interested in the out come of this problem. As well as more details about the bike, the BB and the reason to have used Loc-Tite in the first place. Andy

jyl

If you need loctite to prevent a BB from creaking, i think that isn't a good BB design. 250C is 480F. And to get the loc tite to that temperature you probably have to subject the BB shell to a higher temperature. How can that be good for a CF frame or its paint?

Deontologist

There is an aluminum sleeve inside the shell. Aluminum heats up a lot easier than CF. Just like a pot full of water. The metal becomes way too hot to touch well before the water inside achieves the same temperature.

SkyDog75

Aluminum is a very good thermal conductor. If you somehow can apply heat to the inside of that aluminum sleeve and get it to temperatures approaching 200 degrees C, the surface that mates with the carbon fiber is going to get awfully hot, too -- potentially exceeding the maximum safe temp for the epoxy resin in the CF.

Personally, I'd get pretty aggressive with mechanical removal before resorting to heat.

trailflow1

Try WD40 (or similar) or hot water.

shelbyfv

I'm unable to imagine how the glued bb prevents the crank from coming out. Did you put glue on the spindle? Anyway, if you've screwed something up, your LBS may try to fix it but surely would not be responsible for damage if something breaks in the process.

FastJake

+1

Next time buy a frame with a threaded shell and forget the stupid press fit BBs.

Earl Grey

Amen to that. Although for all the people apparently amazed by the use of Loctite 609, Campy specifically direct its use for all(?) their press fit BB cups. I'm sure there are other manufacturers too.

I too am puzzled by what this has to do with crank removal vs BB.

habilis

If you are using the Park BB30 removal tool in the recommended way, then you have been applying light hammer taps to the inner side of one press-fit bearing cup in an attempt to drive it out of the shell (second link in Post #9 ). "Light taps" is a subjective term.

If it were my bike, and light tapping didn't do it after MANY (100?) repetitions, I would gradually increase the force of the blows. This requires good judgement (not available in stores or online) to avoid damaging the BB or the frame. It certainly can't hurt to apply WD-40, although it may not be able to penetrate an adhesive seal.

No success? Use a punch, going around and around the inner surface of the bearing and avoiding the c-clip, as described in the cited link. At this stage, I'd be getting impatient, but I would give it at least an hour, and I'd still be trying to save the BB. By now the, adhesive may be cracking, so more WD-40 would be useful.

Still no success? Time to sacrifice the BB by carefully hack-sawing it out. This requires the ability to judge depth of cut so you don't hurt the shell. When you have cut all the way through the bearing down to the shell, you'll have made a tiny gap that will allow the bearing to compress slightly smaller inside the shell. This method works any time one cylinder is stuck inside another cylinder. The Park tool should be able to remove it now.

Heat could easily compromise the epoxy bonds in your frame, so I'd avoid it. The shop will probably go through the steps I've described, if they are willing to take on the job in the first place, or they may stop short of destroying the BB and just give the mess back to you. Most people, yourself included, can safely use the methods I've described, but there is no guarantee you won't damage the frame. You have to do your own risk/reward analysis.

well biked

I'm confused by the fact that the OP says the "crank is stuck in place" and yet the concern seems to be getting the bottom bracket out of the frame. The crank should be no problem to remove whether the bb is difficult to remove or not.

Poonjabby

If I was you I'd be honest with your local bike shop and explain what you did. Hopefully they don't do any damage. If they do damage something in my book that's on you not your local bike shop.

Poon

Number400

Hit it harder, brace the frame better. If you are whacking it while trying to hold the frame with your body, then you are absorbing most of the impact. I don't think the loctite is the problem in this instance.

I had a stuck seatpost in a carbon frame once that I could not get out. I took it to the shop and they wrenched on it for a bit and came upstairs and said it won't budge and that they would have to take more drastic measures and that they might break the frame. I gave them the go-ahead and they had the post in a vise and three guys were spinning the frame and it was making a horrendous noise. It still would not come out so they began to ream it out. The ream broke, the had to wait for a new part but did manage to get it out or at least most of it with no harm done.

2nd story was a1993 Toyota pickup where the wheels would not come off at a tire shop. They were banging on the wheels so freaking hard with everything they had and they would not come off. They wanted to drive it around with loose lug nuts to see if that did the trick but I wanted out of there. I went to the dealership and in an hour, they had all the wheels off and new tires on and never made a peep or even mentioned any difficulty in removing them.

The point is that the shop is probably the best place to go in your situation and I doubt any decent shop is going to hurt your frame without at least a warning that things might go bad.

Andrew R Stewart 

I suspect the crank/BB in question is a two piece style with the spindle fixed in one crank arm. So to remove the crank requires removing the spindle too.

But this is all speculation. We have burned through 20 posts and still don't really know what the OP actually has, why he did what he did, where he did it, what type of frame material he has. To rant a bit this galls me sometimes. We are asked for our advice/help and yet we aren't given even the most basic info.

Am I the only one who cares about the real details? The shop the OP goes to certainly will care. If nothing else then to know what not to do. Andy.

Paul Barnard

What do you mean by protect yourself? You definitely need to let them know that you used loctite. If you are wanting them to assume a risk of damage, be sure to ask them what their policy is if they break something. I guess that's the best way to protect yourself should something go wrong. Providing complete information and communicating your wants and expectations should be the norm.