Single butted 2.0/1.8 spokes? Straight?
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Posts: 27,547
Mentioned: 217 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18350 Post(s)
Liked 4,502 Times
in
3,346 Posts
Single butted 2.0/1.8 spokes? Straight?
I'm ready to build a couple of new wheels. But, I need some rather short spokes.
According to the spoke calculator, I think it is 206/208mm
DT apparently doesn't sell short spokes.
I think Sapim may make them, but at least some of the retailers aren't listing them. Special order?
So, I suppose the question is whether there is a significant benefit of double butted over say 2.0/1.8 single butted (cut) spokes.
According to the spoke calculator, I think it is 206/208mm
DT apparently doesn't sell short spokes.
I think Sapim may make them, but at least some of the retailers aren't listing them. Special order?
So, I suppose the question is whether there is a significant benefit of double butted over say 2.0/1.8 single butted (cut) spokes.
#2
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 2,262
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 713 Post(s)
Liked 796 Times
in
473 Posts
DT Swiss does not make butted spokes that short. They do make straight gauge spokes that would work. Sapim Laser spokes come in short lengths, but you will probably need to get them from a BMX shop. Dans Comp has them listed, but you have to call them to order.
#3
Constant tinkerer
I've seen undertensioned spokes break at the elbow as well as where the thread starts. This, combined with the fact that double butted spokes exist, proves their worth and advantage over single-butted (cut) or straight gauge.
But that's more theory than reality. In reality, if you build the wheel properly you'll be fine with 2.0/1.8 single butted spokes. Or straight gauge. 1.8 is plenty at the threaded end.
Long story short: buy whatever you can get your hands on, but given the choice, go for double butted.
But that's more theory than reality. In reality, if you build the wheel properly you'll be fine with 2.0/1.8 single butted spokes. Or straight gauge. 1.8 is plenty at the threaded end.
Long story short: buy whatever you can get your hands on, but given the choice, go for double butted.
#4
Banned
Whats Bike Friday across town got? they use a lot of short spokes..
For the spectators Clifford and Bike Friday are in the same town.
For the spectators Clifford and Bike Friday are in the same town.
Last edited by fietsbob; 11-06-15 at 02:45 PM.
#5
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 33,656
Bikes: '96 Litespeed Catalyst, '05 Litespeed Firenze, '06 Litespeed Tuscany, '20 Surly Midnight Special, All are 3x10. It is hilly around here!
Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2026 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1,095 Times
in
741 Posts
#6
Banned
i have used straight gage spokes for wheels over 30+ years * do the OCD expression if you wish.
got a phil or hozan thread rolling tool?
* including 15 ga straight , 36 per wheel. never broke a spoke on that wheelset.
touring the wheels I built used 88 spokes, the lower cost of straight 14ga became significant.
got a phil or hozan thread rolling tool?
* including 15 ga straight , 36 per wheel. never broke a spoke on that wheelset.
touring the wheels I built used 88 spokes, the lower cost of straight 14ga became significant.
#7
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: St Peters, Missouri
Posts: 30,225
Bikes: Catrike 559 I own some others but they don't get ridden very much.
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1572 Post(s)
Liked 643 Times
in
364 Posts
Try Dan's Comp. They are my go-to source for short spokes. Cheap, reliable, fast and they also offer spokes in fancy boy colors.
__________________
My greatest fear is all of my kids standing around my coffin and talking about "how sensible" dad was.
My greatest fear is all of my kids standing around my coffin and talking about "how sensible" dad was.
#9
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2005
Location: La La Land (We love it!)
Posts: 6,301
Bikes: Gilmour road, Curtlo road; both steel (of course)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 273 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 10 Times
in
9 Posts
To answer your question, butted spokes are said to result in a stronger wheel than straight, but it's academic if they don't fit...
__________________
Today, I believe my jurisdiction ends here...
Today, I believe my jurisdiction ends here...
#10
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Posts: 27,547
Mentioned: 217 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18350 Post(s)
Liked 4,502 Times
in
3,346 Posts
They're listing the spokes at $0.60 each, which might not be bad, especially as I'd only need to buy the number of spokes that I need for the one wheel (plus a couple of spares).
A couple of sellers on E-Bay are also cutting the ends off of double butted spokes to cut them down to length, at pretty close to the cost of the full length spokes.
I should also be able to cut my own if I go that route, but if it only costs 10 cents a spoke to get them made, then it is probably worthwhile to just buy them. And, factory spokes would be all the better.
Looking at a few small wheels on the internet, it looks like there is a risk of bending at the nipples which can't be good. Perhaps one should double check the drilling, as well as ensure proper swivelling at the nipple washers.
Nope, I didn't get the Java rims yet. I found some, but unfortunately they're 406 rims, I think, and not 451's.
Anyway, thanks for the suggestions of potential suppliers.
#11
working on my sandal tan
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: CID
Posts: 22,627
Bikes: 1991 Bianchi Eros, 1964 Armstrong, 1988 Diamondback Ascent, 1988 Bianchi Premio, 1987 Bianchi Sport SX, 1980s Raleigh mixte (hers), All-City Space Horse (hers)
Mentioned: 98 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3870 Post(s)
Liked 2,563 Times
in
1,577 Posts
My guess would be that it's easier/cheaper for BF to source 36h hubs than 24h, and just don't need all those spokes to make the smaller wheels work. (Spoke holes on a 24h 451mm rim are closer together than 32 spokes on a 622mm rim.)
#12
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 33,656
Bikes: '96 Litespeed Catalyst, '05 Litespeed Firenze, '06 Litespeed Tuscany, '20 Surly Midnight Special, All are 3x10. It is hilly around here!
Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2026 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1,095 Times
in
741 Posts
I don't think butted spokes result in a "stronger:" wheel, but one that's a bit more fatigue resistant since the thinner center sections stretch more under impact and protect the thicker ends from stress.
#13
Insane Bicycle Mechanic
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: other Vancouver
Posts: 9,826
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 797 Post(s)
Liked 694 Times
in
371 Posts
What are you building? I have several 451 wheels in my collection that I need to rehome. I've converted my Gold Rush recumbents to 406 diameter front wheels, so now I have 2 24-spoke and 2 28-spoke wheels to dispose of. Some rim wear, but still usable.
__________________
Jeff Wills
Comcast nuked my web page. It will return soon..
Jeff Wills
Comcast nuked my web page. It will return soon..
#14
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Posts: 27,547
Mentioned: 217 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18350 Post(s)
Liked 4,502 Times
in
3,346 Posts
I've been working on tuning and modifying a couple of Bike Friday bikes. I wanted to try lacing up a Capreo rear hub to a 20-451 Sun M14A rim that I picked up.
I'd like to do a bit of a comparison of Capreo vs Sachs Dual Drive.
But, truthfully, I like my regular bike, so I don't know how many miles I'll realistically put on the BF.
I think my front wheels are in reasonable shape, but it never hurts to have a spare... or something for projects. I was also considering building a single wheel trailer to mate with the Bike Friday with a matching 451 wheel... so everything would more or less match.
#15
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2005
Location: La La Land (We love it!)
Posts: 6,301
Bikes: Gilmour road, Curtlo road; both steel (of course)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 273 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 10 Times
in
9 Posts
So "fatigue resistant" isn't the same as stronger..?
__________________
Today, I believe my jurisdiction ends here...
Today, I believe my jurisdiction ends here...
#16
Insane Bicycle Mechanic
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: other Vancouver
Posts: 9,826
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 797 Post(s)
Liked 694 Times
in
371 Posts
Yes. You can build a very lightweight wheel that will last many thousands of miles ridden by a lightweight rider on smooth roads. Put it on a Clydesdale's mountain bike and it'll be toast by the end of the first ride. Clyde S. Dale needs a stronger wheel.
Take that same wheel, loosen all the spokes a turn or so and it's still rideable. However, the tension variations will rapidly fatigue the spokes, causing them to break in short order. Ms. L. W. Rider needs a well-tensioned wheel to live with all her miles.
Take that same wheel, loosen all the spokes a turn or so and it's still rideable. However, the tension variations will rapidly fatigue the spokes, causing them to break in short order. Ms. L. W. Rider needs a well-tensioned wheel to live with all her miles.
__________________
Jeff Wills
Comcast nuked my web page. It will return soon..
Jeff Wills
Comcast nuked my web page. It will return soon..
#17
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: St Peters, Missouri
Posts: 30,225
Bikes: Catrike 559 I own some others but they don't get ridden very much.
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1572 Post(s)
Liked 643 Times
in
364 Posts
Depends on who is doing the defining. If your definition of stronger is "doesn't break" that's a vernacular definition. We tend to use technical terms interspersed with vernacular terms so, whichever definition you use, there will always be somebody who is going to say that you're wrong.
__________________
My greatest fear is all of my kids standing around my coffin and talking about "how sensible" dad was.
My greatest fear is all of my kids standing around my coffin and talking about "how sensible" dad was.
#18
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2005
Location: La La Land (We love it!)
Posts: 6,301
Bikes: Gilmour road, Curtlo road; both steel (of course)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 273 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 10 Times
in
9 Posts
Depends on who is doing the defining. If your definition of stronger is "doesn't break" that's a vernacular definition. We tend to use technical terms interspersed with vernacular terms so, whichever definition you use, there will always be somebody who is going to say that you're wrong.
__________________
Today, I believe my jurisdiction ends here...
Today, I believe my jurisdiction ends here...
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
maartendc
Road Cycling
79
04-13-17 07:52 AM