Wheever

this isn't precisely true--the axle tolerance is actually pretty tight, and if you're slightly off on insertion, they bind and you have to change the angle in order to get them through--but I take your point. I'll try wiggling it around some more.

I'm trying to find trek assembly documentation about installing the dropouts on these domanes, but so far no luck. I don't have confidence in the assembly, no, and I'd like to at least see what the torque specs/instructions/etc are for mounting the dropout hardware to the frame. I'm fairly confident the frame is not defective, as I'm certain Trek has adequate qc on these high-end frames. I, obviously, am inclined to first suspect a lack of care by the shop as a more likely culprit.

fietsbob

So You go back to the Shop and share your criticisms with Them?

CliffordK

As mentioned earlier in the thread, try installing your wheel backwards if it will fit.

If the offset stays on the same side of the bike, then it is an issue with the frame.
If the offset jumps to the other side of the bike, then it is an issue with the wheel.

I try to look at the alignment of the wheel with respect to the seat tube. As mentioned, also look at the seat stays.

Not all chain stays are perfectly symmetrical.

elmore leonard

Have you any pics?

Wheever

Oh yes. I certainly will.

Wheever

I flipped the wheel and it is, as expected, fine. I now think that the problem is that the dropouts themselves were not carefully installed on the frame. With the axle loosened, i can wiggle the wheel over a tiny amount, and that amount is enough the center the wheel between the stays. We're talking less than an mm worth of play. (Unfortunately, when I tighten the axle down, the wheel returns to off center, which makes me think one of the dropuouts is installed slightly ahead. I would loosen the droputs themselves and adjust them, but I think I should have a torque spec on hand because I fear over torquing on a carbon frame. I have no experience with that sort of thing! I havent been able to find a torque spec.

habilis

So how are the dropouts attached to the frame? If torqued fasteners are involved, can you adjust them yourself?

CliffordK

Take some photos.

But, you paid a shop to transfer the parts over. Take the bike back to the shop and have the get it right.

Are the dropouts slotted for adjustment? Or is their location centered when bolted down without adjustment.

Most of the removable derailleur hangers I've seen have no adjustment, without modifying the hangers themselves.

elmore leonard

You did 60 miles just before you took the bike into the bike shop. Why didn't you keep the bike and have a minor repair done to the seat post. That would have been your best best imho. My speculation is that the Trek and the bike shop think that maybe someone other then them tightened the seat and put the small crack into the frame which seems a pretty reasonable thought process to me. You should take this before Judge Judy.

Wheever

Sigh. I see you're one of those posters that prefers to not read posts, but still express opinions based on assumptions.

Fine: If you recall from my original thread, it was the SEAT TUBE that had the defect; the defect was not repairable. Trek admitted that much. After being seen by two MEs and one friend of mine who is an architect with a degree in materials science who works with carbon fiber and is well acquainted with carbon fiber's failure modes, i was concerned that if I got another 4-series frame, I could have the same issue with the new frame because my friend said, catagorically, that the seat tube defect could not be from over torquing, but was from inappropriate flexing stress, due to the fact the stress from slot was transferred down into a part of the seat tube that was transitioning from a larger oval to the narrower shape to fit the seat post and clamp. When I went to the LBS to discuss this, we found another 4-series domane on the floor with the same problem. I brought this up with trek, and though the warranty rep claimed there way no design defect he knew of, he was pretty quick to offer me a handsome discount on the 6-series frame, which uses a seatmast.

So: no, fixing the "seat post" would not have been my "best bet." Even trek didnt think so.

elmore leonard

OK I hear you. I just thought if you road it 60 miles the seat tube must still have some good integrity left in it and maybe a work around was possible.
Apparently not. Good luck anyway..

Wheever

It did, but over time it likely would not. The cracks expanded even in the couple weeks since I first discovered them! probably when they failed it would not be catastrophic, but I didn't really want to find myself 25 miles from home and having to pedal standing! Though it would have been good for my quads! Lol.

Wheever

Update: finally got the bike back to the shop. Mechanic looked at the rear wheel and was all "that's not right." Lol. No kidding.

Also, finally having a chance to do a real shakedown ride, I realized the rear brakes are so spongy they basically don't work. Need to be bled, at least. (I think the front brake was fine because it was transferred intact with the handlebar to the new fork without needing to have the lines touched, whereas the rear, since the 6-series has internal routing, needed a new line.)

I'm very disappointed in this mechanic. I'm going to get a bleed kit so I don't have to depend on him going forward for little things like this. (And also the right sized torque wrench so I can do things like adjust the rear dropouts myself.)

AnkleWork

At least you are getting some progress. Still, it's sad. I always thought bicycling should be fun and simple.

corrado33

So what was the problem? Why keep us in suspense?

Wheever

I don't know yet, I haven't gotten the bike back! I'm assuming there's a certain amount of play in the dropouts, and said play went too far forward on the DS, and too far back on the NDS. The head mechanic doesn't speak english very well, so I will be, er, interesting to see what he says.

Wheever

If it was simple, I, for one, would not love it so much. If I wanted simple I'd take up running and buy some shoes. Lol.

CliffordK

Well, hopefully the shop will get it straightened out. It sounds like this bike may be a bit beyond what they normally deal with, but still, I'd expect a professional build.

Wheever

As did I. I didn't get that, clearly.

Another thing I haven't yet mentioned is that they didn't put an inline adjuster on for the FD. Because the lines are all internal, they should have put one on, just like all the 6-series bikes have. When I went in today, I pointed this out, and they tried to give me guff. And I said: "for $250, this was supposed to be a complete, professional parts swap, not some half-assed bull****; this should be part of a proper install. It's a $7 part at your cost, are you really arguing with me about that? Have you seen how much money I've spent here?" I miss the old manager. He bought my undying loyalty by doing things like taking back a pair of bontrager shoes almost a month after the 30-day return window had closed, when I decided I needed full-blown road pedals instead of spds. I wasnt even going to try, I was just telling him why I was buying new shoes, and he offered to take the first pair back! He knew how to keep a customer happy and spending!

Let's see what I have tomorrow. I'll report.

CliffordK

How did you deal with brake cables, cable housings, and perhaps hoses with the parts swap? Did the old bike have the adjuster built into a cable stop?

The new adjuster should have come from whatever pot the cables came out of. If the $250 was parts and labor, then it should have been included. If it was $250 labor, plus more for parts, then you would buy it. Undoubtedly if the shop sells the adjusters for $7 each, then they cost the shop half that, or less. But, I never expect anything to be totally free unless it is listed as free. If they discovered something big like a malfunctioning shift lever, then you wouldn't expect that to be free, unless they clearly broke it.

Maybe they could have given you a ring on the phone to ask if you want it (some people deal without the adjuster).

Nonetheless, it sounds like the shop needs to deal with customer support.

AnkleWork

At least that explains your decision making and course of action.

Wheever

What, you mean taking advantage of an offer of a better frame that A) avoids what I am certain is a design flaw making a repeat appearance and B) is just a better frame? That seems like a no-brainer to me, and rather the definition of a simple decision. but perhaps you are one of those that believe I should pay to have some sort of uncertain repair on basically brand new carbon frame that is under warranty? A repair of uncertain utility and durability? I don't understand your point.

himespau 

What a giant mess. Best of luck to you.

trailangel

Might not be a good idea to speak like that before they do the work.... never gets good service.

Waiting for the report.

Wheever

Meh. That wasn't said to the mechanic, that was said to the assistant-assistant manager, who was trying to tell me it wasn't specced in the build, and denied that 6-series bikes came with the inlines, even though there was one on the floor with one! He's irrelevant in the scheme of things, as it's the assistant manager who is effectively in charge, since the new manager hurt himself in the middle of this transaction somewhere and is now on indefinite leave. The assistant manager and I do see eye-to-eye, and it's my hope he gets a promotion.

Waiting for the email saying the work is done. Will report, of course.