ironhands

So a couple of days ago I started to notice the occasional grind or KATHUNK coming from my back wheel, one every few minutes. Pulled off the wheel to replace the tube last night and get a closer look at the issue, and I'm seeing some play with the axle. The cassette is tight, but the axle's definitely a little shaky. Not getting any slipping, so the pawls seem ok, so I suspect the freehub itself is fine.

This seems like a loose cone, right? Pull off the cassette, then the freehub, tighten appropriately? Is this something that I should tackle myself, or leave it to a professional, since I've never pulled a cassette/hub before? Already read Park Tools and Sheldon's guides.

Should also note I can't be sure if it's a cartridge bearing system, assuming it's cup/cone. Cheap bike, cheap wheel, Shimano.

ypsetihw

Is it a thread on freewheel or a cassette on a freehub? Either way the plan is pretty straightforward. Remove the cassette or freewheel, you will need the appropriate splined tool for this. You can then access the locknuts and cones. If it's a cheap shimano bike and wheel it's probably a thread on freewheel. You will also need some cone wrenches and you might as well grease it up while you have it apart. If you haven't ever take a hub apart, just reference the guides you have. Make sure you catch all the little bearings! They will be a pain to get them to seat correctly when you put it back together, but you can get them to stick in the grease and hopefully they line up off the bat.

Also make sure the rim itself is true. Truing a wheel is pretty easy to do provided you have a spoke wrench - you can use the brake pads as a makeshift truing stand if you flip the bike upside down.

ironhands

/shrug, looks like cassette on freehub.

I've got a chain whip and hopefully the right adapter, but yeah, either way it's the same procedure, pull the wheel, remove the axle adapter bit, chain whip and crack the lock ring, hex wrench out the hub, cone wrenches on the bearings to tighten it up. I'm a little nervous about exposing bearings, but if I gotta do it, I gotta do it, right?

Seems to be within acceptable limits, I have a spoke wrench, two actually, but I've never used them. I use disc brakes so I'd need to clamp a pencil to the frame or something to pull it off.

Thanks for the advice

trailangel

Why take off the cassette or freewheel to adjust/grease axel??

ironhands

Is it possible to tighten the cones without removing everything? I'd assumed it wouldn't be. If that can be done, that'll save me a tonne of work.

CliffordK

It isn't quite the same procedure for a freewheel vs cassette. First of all, you don't need the chain whip for removing the freewheel.

Also, in your first post, you talked about removing both the cassette and freehub. In general, the freehub should be fine left alone. Just remove the cassette to get better access to the bearings.

Now, the issue is whether any damage was done causing the axle to be loose. The cones don't just unscrew themselves. So if it was tight,and is now loose, something may be broken, or extremely worn, and you won't really know until you get it all apart and cleaned up.

• Broken Axle
• Badly worn Cones
• Broken bearings

Your local bike shop should have any replacement parts you may need, or you can order them online. Plus new grease.

Add some close-up photos, and someone will be able to tell you what you have, and help you with assessing parts.

ironhands

Great, that should make things easier. Figured they'd be too hard to reach with the freehub still attached.

Don't think it would be wear, I had replaced the entire wheel about 9 months ago, and it doesn't have a lot of miles on it. I'd say it's more likely a break than wear, if it's not just loose which I'm hoping. If I have to replace any parts, I'm probably going to end up having to replace the whole wheel again

CliffordK

One of the main differences between freehubs and freewheels.

• Freewheels, the axle bearings lie behind the freewheel.
• Freehubs (Shimano style), the axle bearings are inside of the freehub.
  The advantage of this is that it moves the bearings outward to give better/stronger support to the axles, especially with more sprockets and wider cassettes.

It is hard to tell how loose everything is from your description, or how long it has been that way. One option would be to simply tighten the non-drive-side cones and leave the drive side alone.

However, if it has been loose for any significant amount of time, it puts everything at risk for wear and breakage.

ironhands

Yup, was just thinking about that right now, I was under the impression that the cones on the drive side would be closest to the wheel, but as I thought about it, it makes more sense to have it on the hub for the exact reasons you provide. I'm all but certain it's a Shimano style hub (I remember seeing the lock ring grooves, if not the brand name itself).


It's enough that I can feel it wobble when i ride, and it's probably got about 2mm of play at the rims. So If I pull the wheel, I can just slide everything along the axle a few mm towards the drive side and tighten the non-drive side cone and lock nut? That would be a pretty simple fix, but I agree that by doing that I'd not be seeing any issues that might exist in the drive side. I think I'm ok with that though. It's a beater and I'm not riding in traffic or at high speeds.

CliffordK

If it is minimal wobble (2mm at the rim), then the quickest thing is to just adjust the non-drive-side (NDS)

Put the cone wrench on the cone and the 17mm on the lock nut. Loosen.

Tighten down the cone. Then tighten the locknut/cone pair.

You should be able to get it to a point where you can not wiggle the cone up and down, but have little resistance when spinning the axle with your fingers.

You could then determine if further work is needed by how "gritty" the axle feels when spinning it, or whether it feels like there are catch points.

corrado33

Regardless of freewheel/cassette, follow these steps.

Remove freewheel/cassette.
Remove NDS axle lock nut and cone nut.
Remove axle from DS (pull it out.)
Inspect for damage of axle and races in the hub.
Clean/regrease.
Tighten DS cone against locknut (or visa versa), outside of the hub
Reassemble, tightening the NDS cone nut to adjust hub.

Wilfred Laurier

You can loosen the NDS locknut and back off the nut and cone sufficiently to expose the locknut and cone on the DS, then tighten the DS locknut down like a 500lb (227kg) gorilla (without moving the cone significantly on the axle), then thread the NDS cone and locknut back on and do the adjustment. Finish the job by snugging the NDS locknut down against the cone.

ironhands

Thanks! That will definitely be my first attempt to resolve the issue, should only take a minute or two, might even be able to do that without removing the wheel completely, right?

Gritty, yeah, I can definitely feel/hear a little. Hoping it'll disappear, I'll see soon enough

Bill Kapaun

IF the lock nuts are tight to the cones, then where did the play come from?
WEAR!

New bearings are inexpensive.
Buy 18 new 1/4" balls and some wheel bearing grease and service them properly.

Also note-
IF the wheel is a QR axle, clamping the QR will take up some play, so the bearings are a bit looser when the wheel is of the bike.

ypsetihw

+1 you don't have to take everything apart to tighten the cones, just do the one on the non-drive side

I would just take the wheel off to make this adjustment.

ironhands

Sure, but I replaced a tube 2 weeks ago, so I might have just bumped something enough to make a difference.

But if there is wear, wouldn't I need to replace the cones/axle too?

ironhands

Opened it up (seems it is a freewheel, was sure it was a hub, ah well). tightened it up a bit, no change. pulled the axle out, cracked cone removed the broken bit, should be stable enough to make it to the LBS

Anyone know the going rate for a replacement? Didn't seem bent when i rolled it across the floor

CliffordK

Cones should be somewhere between $5 and $10 a pair or so. I'd go ahead and get all new bearings as others suggested. And, some good axle grease.

Are you doing the work?

ironhands

Don't think so, I mean, it's not that difficult but I think I'd rather be sure it's done right. I popped it out in 2-3 minutes but I'm not sure that I trust myself to get the bearings tight enough, or that i won't miss something. I can't see it being more than 35$ or something for labor, right?

Miele Man

If you can get new cones then the replacing of them shouldn't be so hard that you can't do it yourself. I'd measure the distance from the end of the axle to the other old locknut and write that distance down. Then I'd remove that locknut, washer and cone and put in the new cone and add the washer and locknut and adjust it to the same distance as the one you have written down. Insert that into the hub with new bearings and grease and then install the opposite cone, washer and locknut with the new bearings and grease.

Cheers

ironhands

I might be able to get the parts, amazon has new axles anywhere from 5-15$ with fresh cones/lock nuts, but that means taking the bus for a week (takes twice as long, hot, smelly), so it'd probably be cheaper at the LBS when I factor in transit cost
That is, of course, assuming that the LBS won't sell me the parts if they have them. If they do though, I'm worried that I'd end up over/under tightening the new cones. A quick adjustment, sure, but a full repack still kinda scares me.

Retro Grouch 

What happens if you take out the quick release skewer?

ironhands

It's not a QR, but it is a freewheel afterall, not a freehub

Miele Man

A full repack isn't hard to do. All you need to do is get the assembly on one side of the axle the same distance from the end of the axle as it is on the old one. Then you put the grease and the new bearings into the cups in the hub and then you just insert the axle and add the other cone, washer andlocknut and then adjust it.

Taking the axle and cones to the bike shop is a good idea as they can then match the new axle to the old one or just sell you new cones if they have the right ones that'll thread onto your existing axle.

Cheers

Retro Grouch 

Broken axle?