Can 13 gauge spokes be fitted to the Shimano Deore XT HB-M8000 Hubs?
02-06-17, 05:12 AM
#1
Banned.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Vegemite Island
Posts: 4,130
Bikes: 2017 Surly Troll with XT Drive Train, 2017 Merida Big Nine XT Edition, 2016 Giant Toughroad SLR 2, 1995 Trek 830
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1916 Post(s)
Liked 310 Times
in
218 Posts
Can 13 gauge spokes be fitted to the Shimano Deore XT HB-M8000 Hubs?
I can't find any info telling me if one can fit 13 gauge spokes to Shimano Deore XT HB-M8000 Hubs, so I bring this question to you good folk of the Bicycle Mechanics forum. 
And if the Deore XT HB-M8000's hubs can't take a 13 gauge spoke, what popular hubs are capable of it?
And if the Deore XT HB-M8000's hubs can't take a 13 gauge spoke, what popular hubs are capable of it?
02-06-17, 06:45 AM
#2
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: St Peters, Missouri
Posts: 30,225
Bikes: Catrike 559 I own some others but they don't get ridden very much.
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1572 Post(s)
Liked 643 Times
in
364 Posts
Probably have to use something like DT Alpine III. They are 13/15/14 ga. The issue is that a rolled thread on a 13 ga. wire will increase the diameter a smidge and won't fit through the hub hole. Since spokes most often break at the bend, they'll still give you the extra material right where you need it.
__________________
My greatest fear is all of my kids standing around my coffin and talking about "how sensible" dad was.
My greatest fear is all of my kids standing around my coffin and talking about "how sensible" dad was.
02-06-17, 07:39 AM
#3
Banned.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Vegemite Island
Posts: 4,130
Bikes: 2017 Surly Troll with XT Drive Train, 2017 Merida Big Nine XT Edition, 2016 Giant Toughroad SLR 2, 1995 Trek 830
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1916 Post(s)
Liked 310 Times
in
218 Posts
02-06-17, 09:59 AM
#4
Mad bike riding scientist
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 27,355
Bikes: Some silver ones, a red one, a black and orange one, and a few titanium ones
Mentioned: 152 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6215 Post(s)
Liked 4,213 Times
in
2,362 Posts
Probably. The threads on 2.0mm spokes are 2.3mm in diameter because they are rolled onto the spokes rather than being cut (improves the strength). Hub flanges are drilled so that the 2.3mm threads can pass through the hubs. The 2.3mm head of an Alpine III fits into the hole nicely. I've built several Shimano hubs with Alpine III without issue. About the only hub that has given me problems has been White Industries hubs. They work better with Pillar PSR TB spokes as the Pillars are 2.2mm instead of 2.3mm. The Pillars are still very good spokes but just a squigde smaller.
__________________
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
02-06-17, 05:22 PM
#5
Banned.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Vegemite Island
Posts: 4,130
Bikes: 2017 Surly Troll with XT Drive Train, 2017 Merida Big Nine XT Edition, 2016 Giant Toughroad SLR 2, 1995 Trek 830
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1916 Post(s)
Liked 310 Times
in
218 Posts
Probably. The threads on 2.0mm spokes are 2.3mm in diameter because they are rolled onto the spokes rather than being cut (improves the strength). Hub flanges are drilled so that the 2.3mm threads can pass through the hubs. The 2.3mm head of an Alpine III fits into the hole nicely. I've built several Shimano hubs with Alpine III without issue. About the only hub that has given me problems has been White Industries hubs. They work better with Pillar PSR TB spokes as the Pillars are 2.2mm instead of 2.3mm. The Pillars are still very good spokes but just a squigde smaller.
How long a spoke nipple do you recommend out of 12mm, 14mm & 16mm?
Do the longer nipples give more leeway in case you have a slightly short spoke?
02-06-17, 05:29 PM
#6
Really Old Senior Member
The barrel is simply an assembly aid so that you can get all the spokes started. It was never designed for load bearing.
02-06-17, 05:39 PM
#7
Banned.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Vegemite Island
Posts: 4,130
Bikes: 2017 Surly Troll with XT Drive Train, 2017 Merida Big Nine XT Edition, 2016 Giant Toughroad SLR 2, 1995 Trek 830
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1916 Post(s)
Liked 310 Times
in
218 Posts
02-06-17, 06:58 PM
#8
Really Old Senior Member
Someone will probably post a pic.
I've just always used DT brass nipples and spokes of the proper length. Never a problem.
I didn't see any need to experiment and maybe paint myself into a corner/open a can of worms/....
I guess longer ones would be heavier and make you stronger?
EDIT- here's a pic-
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/images/dt-threads.jpg
I've just always used DT brass nipples and spokes of the proper length. Never a problem.
I didn't see any need to experiment and maybe paint myself into a corner/open a can of worms/....
I guess longer ones would be heavier and make you stronger?
EDIT- here's a pic-
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/images/dt-threads.jpg
Last edited by Bill Kapaun; 02-06-17 at 07:12 PM.
02-06-17, 07:41 PM
#9
Senior member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Oakville Ontario
Posts: 8,117
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 943 Post(s)
Liked 658 Times
in
371 Posts
Also, some rims have a thicker rim bed and longer nipples work better.
Then ya got wooden rims that need really long ones, but we don't run into those every day.
02-07-17, 09:08 AM
#10
Mad bike riding scientist
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 27,355
Bikes: Some silver ones, a red one, a black and orange one, and a few titanium ones
Mentioned: 152 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6215 Post(s)
Liked 4,213 Times
in
2,362 Posts
On a side note, I've been using Wheel Fanatyk's splined spokes for a lot of builds lately. Excellent product! The splines solve the problem of rounding if the tension gets too high and it's just nice to have a tool that engages the fastener well. The tool can't slip off like a regular spoke wrench can.
__________________
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
02-07-17, 09:38 AM
#11
Constant tinkerer
+100 Spokes should always be long enough so that they engage all the threads of the nipple. Nipples should never be loaded in tension, as they are not designed for this purpose and they will break. With that taken care of, it doesn't really matter what nipple length you use.
02-07-17, 08:16 PM
#12
Banned.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Vegemite Island
Posts: 4,130
Bikes: 2017 Surly Troll with XT Drive Train, 2017 Merida Big Nine XT Edition, 2016 Giant Toughroad SLR 2, 1995 Trek 830
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1916 Post(s)
Liked 310 Times
in
218 Posts
Sometimes, it's just aesthetics. Some think short nipples don't look right on deep section rims. I tend to agree.
Also, some rims have a thicker rim bed and longer nipples work better.
Then ya got wooden rims that need really long ones, but we don't run into those every day.
Also, some rims have a thicker rim bed and longer nipples work better.
Then ya got wooden rims that need really long ones, but we don't run into those every day.
I use "normal" sized spoke nipples, i.e. 12mm. The length of the nipple doesn't matter that much as the length of the spoke should be long enough that the end of the spoke in even with the end of the nipple. This is particularly important if you are building with aluminum nipples. This article from Wheel Fanatyk explains why. It's also good advice for brass nipples. If you depend on the nipple to make up the difference in spoke length, you are placing too much stress on one of the weakest parts of the bicycle wheel. If done properly, the ERD measurement should result in a spoke that is long enough to engage the nipple as shown in the Wheel Fanatyk article.
On a side note, I've been using Wheel Fanatyk's splined spokes for a lot of builds lately. Excellent product! The splines solve the problem of rounding if the tension gets too high and it's just nice to have a tool that engages the fastener well. The tool can't slip off like a regular spoke wrench can.
On a side note, I've been using Wheel Fanatyk's splined spokes for a lot of builds lately. Excellent product! The splines solve the problem of rounding if the tension gets too high and it's just nice to have a tool that engages the fastener well. The tool can't slip off like a regular spoke wrench can.
+100 Spokes should always be long enough so that they engage all the threads of the nipple. Nipples should never be loaded in tension, as they are not designed for this purpose and they will break. With that taken care of, it doesn't really matter what nipple length you use.
Thanks for all that info guys.
02-07-17, 08:50 PM
#13
Senior member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Oakville Ontario
Posts: 8,117
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 943 Post(s)
Liked 658 Times
in
371 Posts
There can be issues with spoke threads bottoming out in longer nipples before threading all the way through. Not all 16mm nipples are like this, but I've had batches that would take up all the thread on a spoke threaded to the standard 9 or 10 mm and still be a couple of mm short of the top of the nipple. In fact, I modified my spoke threader to be able to apply 13mm of thread to compensate.
