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Old 08-11-17, 09:07 PM   #1
rosefarts
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Opinions of different chain tensioner derailleur hanger options

Almost exactly as the title states.

There are about 3 or 4 different brands making similar devices. I have no experience with these at all.

I think the biggest issue would be that they don't seem to be machined in, so the hanger actually sticks a hangers width out further than you'd see on a geared frame with a built in derailleur hanger. Depending on the setup, this seems like it could prevent you reaching your lowest gear or two.

The setup in question would be on a generic (Nashbar) single speed 29er with 135mm rear spacing. The most probable setup would be a 1x10 with 11-36 or 11-40 x 32 gearing, all using the Zee group.

The Problem Solvers seems to get the hanger the closest but without it in front of me, I can't really tell.
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Old 08-12-17, 12:53 PM   #2
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there is no such thing as a "generic" derailleur hanger... there are hundreds of specific shapes.

you'll need to post what exact model and year of frame you have.

and there are differences in QUALITY of hangers, too.....
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Old 08-12-17, 12:58 PM   #3
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chain tension-er I'm familiar with came with my Rohloff build 2 pulleys ..

there are a few others, spring loaded 2.. and 1 pulley locking tension types. for building an IGH or single speed with vertical dropout frames..
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Old 08-12-17, 02:21 PM   #4
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Neither of you understood my question. Problem Solvers and a few others make a chain tension device for track dropouts that has a derailer hanger built in. This is purpose built to convert single speed bikes that don't have a derailer into a geared bike with a derailer.

My question was for those that have used them, which models allow you to reach more gears.
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Old 08-12-17, 03:45 PM   #5
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It not so much how the hanger hang , but more so once it mounted and the derailleur is , can you set up the derailleur so it can reach you x number of cogs , may it be 7 or 11 .? Most derailleurs have a range of reach , you just need to know how to set the H & L strews .
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Old 08-12-17, 04:49 PM   #6
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this type has more adjustment. i think it would be pretty solid with a bolt on axle (just gotta get some extra length)

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Old 08-12-17, 06:12 PM   #7
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Galpal is the only one on this thread who has any idea what I'm talking about. Look at her picture. It illustrates the problem I'm envisioning quite well.

A normal frame specific hanger is machined out. The one Galpal posted or the ones I'm talking about http://www.jensonusa.com/Problem-Solvers-Chain-Tensioner-WHanger stick out from the frame about 4-6mm depending on their thickness. This effectively moves the derailleur the same distance further from the cassette. Therefore, you've lost 4-6mm of reach at the low (big) end of your cassette. Most H-L screws don't have the range I'm talking about.

Backing the L screw all the way out still might not move the derailleur over left enough to get the lowest gears in the range. Maybe it would, maybe it wouldn't, this is why I asked for the opinion of people who had used one.

I think online forums are a great place to learn and to gather the experience of people who might have seen something done a different way. Where they are annoying is when people read into questions and reply with answers to questions that weren't asked. It's not a reading comprehension issue as much as laziness, get 3 lines in, figure you know what they're asking, and reply. I'm as guilty on other forums as you guys. I think you can do better.
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Old 08-12-17, 08:05 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rosefarts View Post
Opinions of different chain tensioner derailleur hanger options

Neither of you understood my question. Problem Solvers and a few others make a chain tension device . . .
I, for one, don't have any idea why you mix up chain tensioners with derailleur hangers.
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Old 08-12-17, 08:35 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by AnkleWork View Post
I, for one, don't have any idea why you mix up chain tensioners with derailleur hangers.
I'm semi-annoyed with people reading into what I've written, so I won't read into what you've written. There are two answers to your above quote. I'll answer both.

1. Taken letter for letter, I would gather that you think that I don't know the difference between a chain tensioner and derailleur hanger and am incorrectly using the words interchangeably. I am not. I've recently become aware that a SS chain tensioner (the kind that pulls the wheel back in track dropouts, not the kind with pulleys or springs) with a built in derailleur hanger exists. As I've said upthread, it's purpose built to allow you to convert a horizontal dropout single speed into a bike with gears (I'd envisioned 1x10 but just about anything might work, if the device works).

2. It's possible you forgot the 'd, so it should read "I, for one, don't have any idea why you'd mix up chain tensioners with derailleur hangers".

If this is what you meant, it's actually a really good question. I haven't decided to put gears on the bike. I'm a semi serious rock climber, I'm a roadie, I work 50 hours a week with call, and my first child is due any day now and I have an athlete of a dog.

The mountain bike is only to give me a little riding fix, while wearing out my German Shorthaired Pointer, and not going too far from home. The half day to all day committment of my other stuff isn't logical now. The dog typically has to run over a mountain at least once a week, she'd be happy to do it more than that. I live 7 minutes from the trails though and in 1.5 hours the dog is beat and I don't feel like I'm going to turn into a sedimentary rock. Bonus is that I'm inside the 30 minute call window at work. My bike is a SS as it sits and rides rather nicely. It actually accomplishes what I need it to with no further modification.

The point of this "discussion" was information gathering. I do run into occasional inclines that I'd like gears.
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Old 08-12-17, 09:00 PM   #10
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Tell you what rosefarts, no-one's going to bother answering you with an attitude like that. Any misunderstanding comes from your lousy ability to ask questions.
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Old 08-12-17, 09:26 PM   #11
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Tell you what rosefarts, no-one's going to bother answering you with an attitude like that. Any misunderstanding comes from your lousy ability to ask questions.
I've been reading other people's questions that have been answered well. They all have one thing in common. They are very simple (what size tire fits on this bike, what chain will fit, how to I release Campy brake levers). They are not worded well, or clearly, or spelled right, or punctuated, or are clear. They are simple questions that are relatively to generally figure out with no first hand experience. Fine, I have been helped by this myself.

I have a bad attitude because people are answering questions I didn't ask. I asked something with a little nuance that I knew couldn't be answered unless you've had first hand experience with the product I'm asking about. They don't know of the product are arrogant enough to assume they do, even with no experience whatsoever, or incorrectly assuming I'm talking about something different. In the process showing me their inexperience.

The original post was painfully simple. "Have you used the product in question, if so, here are my concerns with it. What was your experience with it"

If you haven't used it, follow the thread, maybe eventually we'll find someone who knows. Maybe I'll just buy it and report back. If you have used it, please add something constructive to this thread.
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Old 08-13-17, 12:58 AM   #12
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done.
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Old 08-13-17, 11:06 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by rosefarts View Post
. . . I won't read into what you've written. . .
No, of course not, but you eagerly write into what I've written. Please forgive me for actually reading what you wrote. A little friendly advice: In order to avoid misunderstanding and your hypersensitive response, you should probably focus on comprehensibility in your public writing, going forward.

But thanks anyway for your [misdirected] schooling of us all, perfesser [Haw!]



Quote:
Originally Posted by rosefarts View Post
. . . 1. Taken letter for letter, I would gather that you think that I don't know the difference between a chain tensioner and derailleur hanger and am incorrectly using the words interchangeably. I am not. I've recently become aware that a SS chain tensioner (the kind that pulls the wheel back in track dropouts, not the kind with pulleys or springs) with a built in derailleur hanger exists. As I've said upthread, it's purpose built to allow you to convert a horizontal dropout single speed into a bike with gears (I'd envisioned 1x10 but just about anything might work, if the device works).

2. It's possible you forgot the 'd, so it should read "I, for one, don't have any idea why you'd mix up chain tensioners with derailleur hangers".

If this is what you meant, it's actually a really good question. I haven't decided to put gears on the bike. I'm a semi serious rock climber, I'm a roadie, I work 50 hours a week with call, and my first child is due any day now and I have an athlete of a dog.

The mountain bike is only to give me a little riding fix, while wearing out my German Shorthaired Pointer, and not going too far from home. The half day to all day committment of my other stuff isn't logical now. The dog typically has to run over a mountain at least once a week, she'd be happy to do it more than that. I live 7 minutes from the trails though and in 1.5 hours the dog is beat and I don't feel like I'm going to turn into a sedimentary rock. Bonus is that I'm inside the 30 minute call window at work. My bike is a SS as it sits and rides rather nicely. It actually accomplishes what I need it to with no further modification.

The point of this "discussion" was information gathering. I do run into occasional inclines that I'd like gears.
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Old 08-13-17, 10:28 PM   #14
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It looks like the Problem Solvers model and the one posted by @bike_galpal both have plenty of thickness to them. If they don't allow the RD to reach all of the gears, one solution might be to have some of the material machined away from the rear of the top, and the face of the bottom. The ideal one of these things would have sort of a lightning-bolt profile that puts the RD mount on the same plane as the dropout.

Depending on the RD model, you may be able to grind down the stop that the L screw contacts, allowing the RD to move further inward.
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Old 08-14-17, 07:58 PM   #15
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It looks like the Problem Solvers model and the one posted by @bike_galpal both have plenty of thickness to them. If they don't allow the RD to reach all of the gears, one solution might be to have some of the material machined away from the rear of the top, and the face of the bottom. The ideal one of these things would have sort of a lightning-bolt profile that puts the RD mount on the same plane as the dropout.

Depending on the RD model, you may be able to grind down the stop that the L screw contacts, allowing the RD to move further inward.
Precisely my concern.

I did just run across this https://piloparts.com/products/d89-d...4aAv6nEALw_wcB

It's for a Santa Cruz but seems like it would be ideal for most horizontal dropouts. The price is steep though.

The other one I saw, only from shops in the UK is this, Dartmoor Derailleur hanger for horizontal dropouts Players Shine etc.

Kinda like them both more than a chain tensioner combo device just looking at them. I bought a new(used) car today, didn't get a loan. I'm going to wait a few weeks until I forget how much money I just spent before doing anything. Just linking these things here so I remember them or at least where to find them.
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Old 08-14-17, 09:04 PM   #16
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Don't like the answers your getting here? Then why not ask Problem Solvers. There website specifically has a tab that you can use to contact them. Problem Solvers

Good luck.
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Old 08-14-17, 09:16 PM   #17
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2 separate things.... derailleur hanger (there are Hundreds for various bike brands models ) get one, then pick a chain tension-er...



Low end, old stuff, Shimano for example, has a simple stamped steel one ...old bikes did not make it part of the dropout.
It's Steel held on by the axle nut dropouts were more horizontal , longer, then..

running the Hi & Lo stroke limit screws inward can turn a rear derailleur into a chain tensioner .. for little money. if any..







....

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Old 08-14-17, 09:22 PM   #18
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Hello OP
I know what device(s) you are asking about.

I'm currently using the Origin-8 chain-tensioner-with-derailer-hangar adapter

due to fat-tire related chainline issues, I purposely am using a truncated 7/8ths cassette
and this synergizes fine with the adapter pushing the derailer outboard.
I have not tested it with a full stack of 8 cogs, so I can't be sure the offset would come into play there.


Looking at the photos, I'm pretty sure all the major examples of the Device are just made in the same factory in China, with different names branded onto them. So no real difference in dimensions; just buy the cheapest one.

If you are really concerned about the offset being an issue, may I suggest:
custom CNC one, to take advantage of the new Shimano Direct Mount 'B-link' pivot. If your adapter could replace the B-Link, that would make up for the offset width requirement.

if you check the Specifications here:
http://www.peterverdone.com/wiki/ima...%26_E-thru.pdf
you can see that the new DM standard has an offset that would work well with the outboard mounting of the chain-tensioner-with-hangar.
also has all the dimensions you need right there...
got a machine shop? what you want is very possible in terms of the physical spacing

Last edited by xenologer; 08-14-17 at 09:39 PM.
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Old 08-15-17, 07:04 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rosefarts View Post
I've been reading other people's questions that have been answered well. They all have one thing in common. They are very simple (what size tire fits on this bike, what chain will fit, how to I release Campy brake levers). They are not worded well, or clearly, or spelled right, or punctuated, or are clear. They are simple questions that are relatively to generally figure out with no first hand experience. Fine, I have been helped by this myself.

I have a bad attitude because people are answering questions I didn't ask. I asked something with a little nuance that I knew couldn't be answered unless you've had first hand experience with the product I'm asking about. They don't know of the product are arrogant enough to assume they do, even with no experience whatsoever, or incorrectly assuming I'm talking about something different. In the process showing me their inexperience.

The original post was painfully simple. "Have you used the product in question, if so, here are my concerns with it. What was your experience with it"

If you haven't used it, follow the thread, maybe eventually we'll find someone who knows. Maybe I'll just buy it and report back. If you have used it, please add something constructive to this thread.
Have you considered using SuperGlue or some kind of industrial adhesive?
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Old 08-15-17, 11:24 AM   #20
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Try a derailleur from/for an inexpensive bike that comes with a hanger attached?
They are used on bikes that do not have an intrigal hanger on the frame. You might be able to find a donor bike for cheap at a second hand store (think Huffy/Roadmaster et-al) or a yard sale. Depending on the condition of the "donor" bike, you could just use it to wear out your puppy.
Once in a while the second hand stores have mid to top end vintage bikes, as well, that would meet or exceed your needs.

A second and more expensive option would be to replace the dropout with one that has a hanger.

A third option (also expensive) would be a frame transplant.
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