love2pedal.com

I have a midrange gravel bike that came with Alex ATD470 rims which are 22.3mm wide (outside) and 17mm wide (inside).

How wide of a tire can I put on there? I want to go with a 700x45 if possible, like a WTB Riddler or on the narrow end a tire like the 700x42 Teravail Cannonball.

On the Teravail site they say a rim of 23mm is the 'ideal' width for their 700x42. I assume this is the outside width. Most manufacturer's sites don't give info of rim width compatibility with their tires.

I will be running the wheels with tubes.

Are there any overall guidelines for how wide of a tire you can safely run on a rim of a given width?

maddog34

Sheldon Brown to the rescue.... scroll down to the chart, in the link below, with lots of green and red squares.... and also consider whether your wanted tires will even fit well into your frame, since tires and wheels distort during riding...

Tire Sizing Systems

love2pedal.com

Thanks for the link.

It looks like I am out of luck to run 700x42-45 on my 17mm inside width rims

dabac

Sheldon ALSO says the chart is conservative.
MTBs ran tires in the 2" range on regular width rims for decades w/o undue amounts of bad things happening.
You might get a tad shorter sidewall life, and some extra wallowing when cornering at low pressure.

love2pedal.com

Yes, back in the day I used to run fat 1.95"-2.0" MTB tires on those Mavic MA 2 rims that Bontrager would re-roll into 26" rim diameter. Never had a problem.

I may try and mount some 700x45s on my 17mm and see how they fit.

My worry is that they mount OK, look OK, ride OK but one blows off the rim unexpectedly when I am in the middle of nowhere.

I wonder if the current tubeless compatible tires today have the bead area shaped differently than 10-15 years ago so that they can be run tubeless and if this affects the range of rim widths that can be used with?

buck1973

The chart on Sheldon's site is outdated. The newest ETRTO chart can be found on Schwalbe's website:

https://www.schwalbetires.com/tech_info/tire_dimensions (click the drop down for Which tire fits which rim?)

It looks like you should be okay with that combination.

love2pedal.com

Thanks for that updated chart!

maddog34

just be aware... narrow rim is for narrow tires... and if those rims are meant for your bike, you may find that the tires are simply too wide for your FRAME... rim/tire combo Ok, or not.

check for at least 3/16" clearance at the brake caliper(if side pull brakes) and at least 1/4" clearance at the chain stays...

and if you have low profile brake pads, you may find that your wide tires will get rubbed when you squeeze the brakes real hard... or sooner!

SquidPuppet

79pmooney

I just rode the Trask Trail over the Coast Range to Tillamook Oregon with its ~6500' of climbing and also descending, including some very steep descents on loose rock. I was riding a Mavic Open Pro in front (20mm width, 15 mm inside width) with a 38c Pasela. In back was a Velocity Aero (20mm, 14.6 mm inside) with a 35c Pasela. (I didn't have chainstay width to go any wider.) I had not tire or wheel issues at all on by far the wildest ride I have ever done on a bike.

Going to the Schwalbe website (see the link in Buck's post, #6) and the ETRTO chart, my front is limited to a 32c tire and the rear to 30c (by extrapolation). So my tire choices were 19% and 17% over the "max".

But for 17 mm inside, that same chart shows 50c max. So on both their recommendations and my experience, I'd say you are fine. (I wouldn't have wanted to do hard cornering on my 38c with probably less than 35 psi in it, but it felt completely secure riding those conditions I saw yesterday. With the 42 psi I rode to the ride, I felt like the tire was glued to the road, that I could do anything.)

Ben

love2pedal.com

I think I will try and put some 700x45s on my 17mm wide rims and try it. I will be at Interbike next month and will see if I can find a technical rep at the Schwalbe booth. I have never been a big fan of using things that are a 'B' fit.

For the other guys....there is plenty of room for 700x45s. It is a steel Salsa Vaya. It's got 700x37s on there now and still has loads of clearance. I think it could probably take 700x50.

hokiefyd 

My dad and I both have 16mm IW rims on our bikes. I run a 42-622 on mine and my dad runs a 2.1" WTB Nano on his. A 2.1" is about 53mm, but I think they're labeled 54mm. That may be pushing it a little bit, but the 42s fit very nice. I would expect no trouble with a 45mm Riddler.

79pmooney

I see the rims as potentially a much bigger concern. Big tires put far more outward force on the rims, meaning allowable brake wear is far less before the rim breaks. Blowout sounding like a 22 rifle and a long jagged shard of rim peeled out that will scrape the fork, stays or rider's leg if you happen to be moving and the tire does not stay on. I've only experienced it first had once, on the stand while I was in the house, but I have seen bikes come into shops and I was really glad I wasn't on it when it happened.

Big tires and very low pressures are OK narrow rim-wise, but give it real thought going to road pressures.

Ben

love2pedal.com

In my case, it is a disk brake bike so no rim sidewall wear. Tires won't be run near maximum, probably closer to 60psi.

SquidPuppet

45s? You wont need anywhere near 60psi.

love2pedal.com

My tendency is too go too high on the pressure and worry too much about speed and then regret it when my back, wrists and arms start hurting after a few hours. Maybe I will go lower.

hokiefyd 

I run 25 psi front and about 45 psi rear in my 42s. I can't tell much of a difference in speed, but I sure can in comfort! At 60 psi, these things feel like rocks.

I know it's all relative...a roadie putting on 42mm tires at 60 psi would say he's riding on a pillow...!

SquidPuppet

I aint a featherweight. In my 35mm tires I run 65 rear and 40 front. I only begin to feel increased resistance when the rear dips below 60. I highly recommend LOTS of pressure experimentation. You'll be suprised how you can just keep dropping it another 5, and another 5, and another. Comfort and GRIP (safety) just keeps improving and you have to go really kooky low before it even begins to feel sluggish.

canklecat

My Univega has Araya PX-45 rims that are 17.5mm between bead hooks. I run Continental SpeedRides, nominally 700x42 but closer to 700x38. No problems. Great tires too for mixed pavement and light gravel rides. It's a wider version of their Cyclocross Speed tires for dry CX conditions.

The rims could go a bit wider, maybe to 45, but it would interfere with the front derailer. Plenty of room in the frame, though. But the protruding cable clamp bolt on the front derailer would rub larger tires when shifting into the big ring on the triple.

My other hybrid has 622x19 rims, and run Michelin Protek Cross Max, nominally 700x40 but much larger, closer to 700x45 (presumably the 700x45 nominal versions of the Protek Cross Max would be very large, perhaps 700x50). Great durable tires, if a bit heavy, but wouldn't clear the front derailer on my Univega's triple.

xtc800

Just as another point of reference, I have a 27.5" rim with an internal width of 19 mm. I mounted a 27.5 x 2.4" Schwalbe Super Moto-X (street tire) on it with no problems. I believe this (according to Mavic) is about the widest you can go with a 19 mm internal width.

love2pedal.com

Sounds like I can go wider on the tires than I thought with my fairly narrow rims.

HTupolev

If you're experiencing pain as a result of too-high pressure, you'd probably get better rolling resistance by pumping the tires lower. Lower pressures do mean that more energy will be lost in tire flex, but if a stiff tire is causing the bike to deflect off of surface irregularities rather than deform around them, that shaking can itself be a very big loss of energy. The smoother the surface, the stiffer you can pump the tire without those issues kicking in... but even on good roads where the deflections just feel like a gentle buzzing sensation, they can burn a significant amount of energy.

Here's a measurement that SILCA made in 2014 with a 190lb bike+rider on 25mm GP4000SII tires:



Even on excellent asphalt, pushing the tires above ~110PSI caused a huge increase in rolling resistance. By contrast, the increased loss to tire flex from erring low didn't cost much; even 60PSI was rolling as well as 120PSI.

canklecat

Ditto, the pressure advice. With the exception of my road bike tires, every hybrid bike tire I've ridden rides better at lower pressure and doesn't feel sluggish. Just a less harsh ride, same effort, same rolling speed. Real world riding doesn't always match rolling resistance tests.

If you ride mostly pavement and occasional dry groomed gravel trails and prefer a less harsh ride, try a set of Continental Speed Rides. They're 700x42 only, wire bead and folders available (I've used only the wire beads), and will fit 622x17 or 622x19 rims, no problem.

Sweet tires, about half the price of the many popular similar tires for cyclocross and gravel from Clement, WTB and others. They all have similar tread design: semi-knobbies or aggressive file tread for the main contact patch, more aggressive side knobbies for cornering on grass or off road.

But the Conti Speed Rides are geared more for folks who ride mostly pavement and some gravel, so the main patch is a shallow file tread. Remarkably low rolling resistance, quiet, yet still plenty good enough for dry or damp gravel and off roading. I weigh 160 lbs and ride 'em around 50 psi front/60 psi rear -- really smooths out the road and feels stable on gravel, although I'll sometimes reduce pressure a bit for gravel. Occasionally I try 'em with higher pressure but there's more road vibration and they don't feel faster.

They're lighter than some comparable tires too. Grippy and reasonably durable tread. Flexible sidewalls. A thin puncture shield that's good for pavement but can be punctured by goat heads riding off road or along shoulders during the peak of goat head and grass burr season (usually Sept-Nov here, when they dry out and are sharp and hard as tacks). Most of my punctures occurred last winter riding off road on open pastures, prairie, etc. Only one on pavement, when I rode though a patch of loose sandy debris in an intersection that had some broken glass, etc. Usually I ride around those but I was trying to leave cars room to pass and I rode closer than I usually would to places where debris accumulates.

love2pedal.com

Interesting info on the effect of tire pressure especially the gravelly surface!

autonomy

A bit of a bump - I have a REI Co-Op ADV3.1 and it comes stock with 40mm MSO XPlor on Alex AT470 rims. Here's someone who put 2in tires on these rims: Novara Mazama
Personally I probably would not run more than 48mm on these.

edit: hm, I think REI has the rims mislabeled, ATD470 is the disc version, AT470 is the rim-brake version. These are disc brake rims I'm talking about.