ExMachina

Currently have a 9-speed double set up. Since I really like the ergos of the Ultegra 6600 hoods, I figure it's as good an excuse as any to move up to a 10-speed

So, other than new shifters and a 10-cog cassette, is there anythinng else that I *absolutely* need in order to make this work?

hypersnazz

If it were Campy you could get away with it, but unfortunately with Shimano if you don't upgrade the crankset and front derailleur you'll only be able to use the right Ultegra STI lever. It'll theoretically work (as in I've heard it will but never seen or tried it), running 10 speed components in the rear and 9 in the front, but the 10 speed STI lever isn't compatible with the 9 speed front derailleur and the 10 speed front derailleur isn't compatible with 9 speed cranks. And don't forget you'll need a 10 speed chain as well.

sydney

Nonsense and rubbish.All he needs is shifters,cassette and chain.

ExMachina

Can someone here confirm this?

Seems strange to me (but if I knew for sure, I wouldn't ask

ExMachina

Crap. Looks like hypersnazz is exactly right

Shimano's website is showing the front shifter/derailleur as being incompatable with older cranksets...WTF?

It's enough to make a guy switch to campy

juicemouse

My guess is they're saying that to entice anyone who doesn't know better to buy the outrageously expensive new fall lineup. Campy does the same thing, BTW. I'll bet it works just fine, but it wouldn't hurt to wait on that confirmation.

roadbuzz

I don't buy it (no pun intended). The FD compatibility chart also shows DA 10-spd (ST-7800) as only being compatible with FD-7800 and FD-6600, but I'm currently using DA 10-spd shifters with my old Ultegra FD-6500 and it works fine.

Doctor Morbius

What works in the real world is oft different from the textbook answer. Shimano's official response will always be to use components from the same groupset ... transaltion ... spend more money!

hypersnazz

It'd be good to know, because I'd kinda like to do the same to my 105-equipped bike and if it *can* be done without a crankset/fd swap I'm stoked. I've never tried it, all I know is what Shimano says and what the other mechanics in my shop say.

Michel Gagnon

Ask Sheldon Brown for sure. I know that in spite of Shimano's official rambling, 8 speed cranks work with 9 speed drivetrain and vice versa. And derailleurs don't care how many speeds you have.

sydney

Exactly right.This is not new news. People have already done the upgrade with shifters , cassette and chain.Even excel sports upgrade kit only contains the addition of the 10 speed RD which you absolutely don't need.

sydney

The nose pickers are only regurgitatig what Shimano says.

ExMachina

I've searched ths forum to death.

Can anyone point me to a thread where somebody had reported success/failure using the older cranks w/ the 6600 shifters?

I know Shimano would like to sell me more stuff, but their tech sheets DO at least admit that the 6600 shifters can be used w/ the 9-speed RDs, so they're not trying to milk this cow into hamburger anyway...

dafydd

shimano and campy use the same story every time they come out with something new and expensive. sometimes it's true, most of the time it's only partly true at best. for instance, i used a biopace crankset and a 8-speed or older front deraileur with shimano 9-speed shifters for a long time; worked fine. a workmate set up Campy Super Record cranks (ie, pre-index) with Campy 10-speed; same deal.

just because it's not sanctioned by the manufacturer doesn't mean it won't work.

hypersnazz

Y'know, for all the abuse that professionals in the industry take from *******s on this forum it's a wonder any of 'em speak up at all.

You can jerry-rig a lot of stuff to work, and chances are it'll work for a good long time. Chances are it won't. Until someone actually measures the throw on the shifters and derailleurs all we're doing is talking out of our asses. I'm telling you what the manufacturer says. It may not be absolutely necessary to replace all your stuff, but that's the safe answer and if you're going to be spending money, do yourself and your mechanic a favor...

Do it right.

sydney

The real payoff for doing it yourself is that you don't have to rely on and put up with 'professional' nose pickers.

dafydd

as a mechanic, i'll stick with sydney's sentiments. doing it right doesn't have to mean doing things by rote specifications, or dumping your life saving in the till. and it's not so much jury-rigging as cutting through the bs and setting things up right.

sydney

Yeah...Campy is even more full of the 'campy sez' stuff than shimano. If you do it their way,you won't go wrong,but you will spend more money and it won't necessarily work any better. It's marketing and CYA..... sydney got out of the box long ago,and life has been better and easier.

53-11_alltheway

Haha.

rmfnla

I agree. I recently installed Shimano SL-R600 flat bar shifters on my lady's bike. The lit says these are only compatible w/ the R443 (which looks exactly like an Ultegra triple). Since the bike already had the Ultegra I tried it first and it works great.

I had asked the guys at Speedgoat (where I bought the shifters) about this and they said they had not tried it but would like to hear how it went for me. My experience gets passed on, and those who pay attention know a little more.

Doing it right means following sound mechanical principles and learning from your mistakes, not swallowing everything that comes from a sales & marketing campaign.

ExMachina

Hey guys, I respect and agree with all that you are saying about not sheepishly following compatibility guidelines...

However, I unfortunately cannot afford to drop several hundred bucks on shifters, cogs and chain just to test the veracity of those guidelines I need to know for certain that I will have reliable front shifting w/ my existing crankset.

So again I plead: can anyone direct me to a first hand account of actually converting to 6600 shifters w/o upgrading the crankset?

(Alternately, has anyone tried taking a Dremel to the pointy tops of the older Ultegra hoods?--tempting but seems like a bad idea)

juicemouse

Here's one from Google's r.b.t:

https://tinyurl.com/c3k6j

Note what Qui si parla Campagnolo has to say towards the end of the page about him running this setup on plenty of customers' bikes. I got that thread as a result of just one simple search. I also easily found three separate posts from three different people who say that all chains, even 10s, have the same inner dimension of 3/32". It's really the outer chain width dimension that gets narrower as the number of speeds is increased. I also read that 10s chains have more of a flat profile to them that don't catch on shift ramps and pins as well as 9s chains, but nothing that said they catch on 10s chainrings better than 9s rings. Have you also found and read these things? Have you read anything besides Shimano's drivel or anyone regurgitating it that makes you believe it won't work?

In any event, isn't the worst case scenario that you find out Shimano's really right, it doesn't work to your satisfaction, and you need to buy the new 10s front end that it sounds like you're considering buying anyway? I'm not seeing what you have to lose here by trying the setup with your current crank/bb/fd.

ExMachina

Thanks for the link juicemouse--I only seached these forums.

Since you ask, I can afford/justify buying new shifters, cogs and chain if that's all it will take--however, if I would also need a new crankset and FD...well I don't need 10-speeds that badly

Doctor Morbius

Honestly, if you're mainly wanting to go 10 just because of the ergonomics of the hoods over the 9 speed's, and nothing is worn out or broken with your 9 speed group then it isn't worth it. If your shifters are not working properly and your cassette is worn out that's another matter. It's rarely worth upgrading fully functional components.

There was a thread a while back where some rider (big name but forget who) used cut up tires to shove inside of the tops of his hoods to make them more ergo or more Campy like.

juicemouse

How do you determine the "worth" of comfort?