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Old 08-03-05, 03:46 PM   #1
dukes909
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Pedal - wheel interference

I have 2 bikes that have an awful problem of the pedals interfering with
the front wheel. The bikes are a Schwinn Crisscross (hybrid) and a Peugeot
Nice (road bike). Both bikes have 700 x 32 wheels on them. The pedals are
Wellgo's with the plastic toe clip in the front. What happens is that when
I turn the wheel sharply and have one of the pedals in the most forward
position, the wheel and pedal clash and, sometimes, get stuck, promptly
causing me to lose balance. Usually this happens from a dead stop, and
sometimes as I take sweeping turns. The Schwinn cleared fine until I put
fenders on and now it just barely scrapes. The Peugeot is much much worse,
even with 700 x 22 tires; there is a huge overlap between the two.

Is this common to all bikes, or do I just need a bigger bike? Do I need to
learn to ride differently? How does one determine this from geometries
spec'd by the manufacturer? Is there a "pedal to wheel" clearence factor?
Sorry if these questions are obtuse, I don't have access to a lot of other
bikes my size (61cm) to compare, and the LBS's are no help (see other
posts).

Cheers!
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Old 08-03-05, 03:54 PM   #2
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the only time ive ever seen something like this happen is when my brother crashed straight into a tree, he bent his fork and the tire came close to touching his foot. this sounds like it might be the crank arms being to long maybe.. i dunno it seem really weird
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Old 08-03-05, 04:01 PM   #3
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It isn't too unusual, and I guess the answer is to learn not to pedal when you're turning sharply enough to bring foot and wheel into conflict. When I put fenders on my bike I had to remove the toe clips and remember to be careful because there was a serious conflict that would knock the front fender out of alignment. I still brush it occasionally, but not like before, and this is a bike with a pretty long wheelbase.
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Old 08-03-05, 07:04 PM   #4
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This is normal, and you only turn the front wheel that much while going extremely slowly. At normal cycling speeds you only make small movements with the bars.
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Old 08-03-05, 07:59 PM   #5
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toe clips come in different sizes. If the clips you have are L / XL you might try going down in size.
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Old 08-03-05, 08:14 PM   #6
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Happens to me at very low speed. I'm already used to it after just a few days and I'm over being concerned about it. It's a little scary at peeds near zero cuz I've got clipless pedals but at that speed I've got all kinds of concerns w/ clipless!
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Old 08-04-05, 04:09 AM   #7
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Toe Clip Overlap is OK on a competition race bike but on a commuter bike it can cause problems, eg when doing a track stand at a junction, or low-speed manouvering.
TCO is a design flaw and is not neccessary. Some manufacturers accidently build in TCO, esp when they have to buy in their forks in a limited number of geometries (ie trail). Long cranks and large toe clips can also contribute to TCO.
The pedal to wheel clearance factor is not generally published. You have to check out the bike yourself.
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Old 08-04-05, 07:00 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelW
The pedal to wheel clearance factor is not generally published. You have to check out the bike yourself.
Few bikes these days come w/ clips and w/ clipless, shoe size comes into the equation as well making it tough to publish a spec.
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Old 08-04-05, 07:36 AM   #9
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It's not a design flaw, it's a design decision.

Particularly for frame under ~54cm, designing out overlap requires either lengthening the top tube, relaxing the head tube angle, going with a longer rake fork, further shortening the cranks, increasing fork rake, or going with smaller wheels. In short, all require compromising the bike's geometry or saddling the rider with an unusual tire size. If they can instead accommodate themselves to a minor--and soon forgotten--inconvenience, they can avoid the much longer term issues above.

I have some degree of overlap on all three of my skinny-tired rides and it doesn't cause me any great grief. It's something you just get used to or get a different bike, I'm afraid.
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Old 08-04-05, 06:54 PM   #10
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Yeah, you learn to have the wheel turned towards (rear away from) the forward foot when doing trackstands. Also when cornering, you'll have the outer foot down anyway. The overlap is a due to the design of tight-wheelbase racing bikes. My first experience with this was 20-years ago with the Trek 770 which had a 38" wheelbase in 54cm size. My toes would overlap by more than 1"... and I couldn't use a larger tyre than 26mm because it would rub on the seat tube...heh, heh... Wow, I miss that bike, if anyone has a Trek 770 in 54cm, I'll buy it from ya!

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Old 08-05-05, 04:25 PM   #11
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ya the pedal thing is normal. ive a road bike and i get rub. but u learn to have ur feet at 12 and 6 and not 9 and 3, that way u can turn the wheel all u like
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Old 08-06-05, 12:52 PM   #12
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My 1989 Olmo 55cm also has this, er, phenomenon, and my understanding is that my frame has particularly steep angles for the seat and head tubes.
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Old 08-06-05, 02:15 PM   #13
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Toe overlap is common. You will eventually instinctively not let that happen when making slow sharp turns.
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Old 03-18-06, 10:01 AM   #14
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Hi Dukes!
I just encountered this situation recently having installed toe clips on my Bianchi castro valley 9speed. The problem should be correctable. I have found that the crank arms on my bike are 170mm long, there are crank arms as short as 155mm available from bike suppliers, check "harris cyclery".



Quote:
Originally Posted by dukes909
I have 2 bikes that have an awful problem of the pedals interfering with
the front wheel. The bikes are a Schwinn Crisscross (hybrid) and a Peugeot
Nice (road bike). Both bikes have 700 x 32 wheels on them. The pedals are
Wellgo's with the plastic toe clip in the front. What happens is that when
I turn the wheel sharply and have one of the pedals in the most forward
position, the wheel and pedal clash and, sometimes, get stuck, promptly
causing me to lose balance. Usually this happens from a dead stop, and
sometimes as I take sweeping turns. The Schwinn cleared fine until I put
fenders on and now it just barely scrapes. The Peugeot is much much worse,
even with 700 x 22 tires; there is a huge overlap between the two.

Is this common to all bikes, or do I just need a bigger bike? Do I need to
learn to ride differently? How does one determine this from geometries
spec'd by the manufacturer? Is there a "pedal to wheel" clearence factor?
Sorry if these questions are obtuse, I don't have access to a lot of other
bikes my size (61cm) to compare, and the LBS's are no help (see other
posts).

Cheers!
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