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  1. #1
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    Shimano 9/10 spd compatibility

    Question regarding shimano 9/10 speed compatibility. Looking to upgrade front derailleur from 105 (2003 variety) to either ultegra/dura ace. However, the current 105 FD is matched with a 9spd drivetrain, whereas the new ultegra/DA stuff is clearly 10 spd. Will a new 10 spd FD work with a 9 spd drivetrain, or am I forced to find a 9 spd FD? Clearly the 10 spd chain is thinner than a 9 spd, but does that mean that the derailleurs are too narrow for a 9 spd chain?

  2. #2
    Senior Member rich007's Avatar
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    Just get the Ultegra 6500 front der. (9-speed series)... Plenty of those on eBay...

    Or, you can get DA 7700 (IIRC, that is the 9-speed FD...) Make sure though I'm not 100% sure on DA series number

    If you are keeping the 9-speed cassette and rear der., you have to use 9-speed chain, and therefore the 10-speed front der. (i.e. Ultegra 6600 series) will be too small for it...

    PS: I'm currently doing my upgrade as well and decided against upgrading to a 10-speed setup, just because I would have to upgrade pretty much everything (incl. shifters)

    Hope it helps

  3. #3
    Senior Member sydney's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rich007

    PS: I'm currently doing my upgrade as well and decided against upgrading to a 10-speed setup, just because I would have to upgrade pretty much everything (incl. shifters)
    No it don't. All it takes is shifters cassette and chain.

  4. #4
    Member fatpossum22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sydney
    No it don't. All it takes is shifters cassette and chain.
    And crankset.

  5. #5
    Senior Member sydney's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatpossum22
    And crankset.
    Crankset not required.

  6. #6
    "Uh-uh. Respek Knuckles." hypersnazz's Avatar
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    This is one of those things that can be made to work, but not as crisp or as clean as doing the whole thing.

  7. #7
    Perineal Pressurized dobber's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hypersnazz
    This is one of those things that can be made to work, but not as crisp or as clean as doing the whole thing.
    Or that's the way Microsoft, err, Shimano would like you to think.
    This is Africa, 1943. War spits out its violence overhead and the sandy graveyard swallows it up. Her name is King Nine, B-25, medium bomber, Twelfth Air Force. On a hot, still morning she took off from Tunisia to bomb the southern tip of Italy. An errant piece of flak tore a hole in a wing tank and, like a wounded bird, this is where she landed, not to return on this day, or any other day.

  8. #8
    Member fatpossum22's Avatar
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    Crankset not required.
    Crankset highly recommended. There is a different spacing between the chainrings of a 9spd vs. 10 spd crankset. Some companies can barely get their 10spd cranksets to work with shimano's 10spd groups. At the very least you'd need new 'rings.

  9. #9
    "Uh-uh. Respek Knuckles." hypersnazz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dobber
    Or that's the way Microsoft, err, Shimano would like you to think.
    No, there are guys at my shop with personal experience specific to this particular changeover. Sometimes Shimano says stuff because it's actually true, though not always.

  10. #10
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    What's wrong with your 105 front derailleur?

  11. #11
    Senior Member sydney's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatpossum22
    Crankset highly recommended. There is a different spacing between the chainrings of a 9spd vs. 10 spd crankset. Some companies can barely get their 10spd cranksets to work with shimano's 10spd groups. At the very least you'd need new 'rings.
    Just more nonsense,and rings not required either.

  12. #12
    Member fatpossum22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sydney
    Just more nonsense,and rings not required either.
    It's only nonsense if you don't want your front shifting to work the way its supposed to.

  13. #13
    Senior Member sydney's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatpossum22
    It's only nonsense if you don't want your front shifting to work the way its supposed to.
    Gather up some real data,then maybe there will be grounds for an intellighent discussion.

  14. #14
    "Uh-uh. Respek Knuckles." hypersnazz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sydney
    Gather up some real data,then maybe there will be grounds for an intellighent discussion.
    *yawn*

    More of the same, sydney is gonna tell you everything works with everything else and talk all sorts of self-righteous trash, someone else will say your bike will catch fire if you do it this way, they're both wrong. The spacing is different, that's hard facts, and it won't work *textbook* but you can probably 'get away with it'. It all depends on how anal you are about clicks and ticks and how much you're willing to put up with for pinching a few pennies and feeling like you know more than the guys at the shop who see this **** every day.

  15. #15
    Senior Member sydney's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hypersnazz
    *yawn*

    More of the same, sydney is gonna tell you everything works with everything else and talk all sorts of self-righteous trash, someone else will say your bike will catch fire if you do it this way, they're both wrong. The spacing is different, that's hard facts, and it won't work *textbook* but you can probably 'get away with it'. It all depends on how anal you are about clicks and ticks and how much you're willing to put up with for pinching a few pennies and feeling like you know more than the guys at the shop who see this **** every day.
    And you don't have a real clue either do you? Plenty of others have done the upgrade with shifters,chain and cassette and sydney is hearing no gripes.

  16. #16
    "Uh-uh. Respek Knuckles." hypersnazz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sydney
    And you don't have a real clue either do you? Plenty of others have done the upgrade with shifters,chain and cassette and sydney is hearing no gripes.
    I'm sorry you've decided not to hear them, but the fact remains that the spacing is different. It's a small difference, but it's real and not a figment of Shimano's marketing imagination. Yes, we already know it works, you can get off that soapbox. Yes, we know you don't like anyone with contradictory experience, I'm over that as well.

  17. #17
    Senior Member sydney's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hypersnazz
    .... but the fact remains that the spacing is different.
    Yeah, and so is the ring spacing between campy 9 and 10,but in the real world it makes no difference. The regrugitators have a field day with it and both campy and shimano sell more stuff to the clueless who buyinto it.Time to move on.

  18. #18
    Meow! my58vw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sydney
    No it don't. All it takes is shifters cassette and chain.
    and RD...
    Just your average club rider... :)

  19. #19
    Spoked to Death phidauex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by my58vw
    and RD...
    No....

  20. #20
    Senior Member sydney's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by my58vw
    and RD...
    Will the muppets ever get it straight? As the OP said...NO!!

  21. #21
    Member fatpossum22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by craign04
    i went ultegra 6500, to dura ace 7800 changing only shifters, chain, cassette and FD, no problems just as smooth...
    and since when does not spending 40,999 pennies for a crank (despite the fact that I can EP it from shimano for 22,310 pennies) make me a penny pincher?... but it is true that i see this **** everyday at the shop since I work at one and ride my bike there
    Can you get away with not swapping out the crank? Clearly. Is it something I would personally do? No. Given the fact that our shop works on a lot of road bikes, including those with shimano 10 speed, I've seen a number of TEN SPEED cranksets that weren't properly engineered and resulted in shifting problems (mostly from Truvativ and misc. compact cranks). This leads me to believe that its best to avoid any potential shifting problems and get a matching Shimano 10spd. crankset for your 10 speed upgrade. Just my two cents.

  22. #22
    "Uh-uh. Respek Knuckles." hypersnazz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatpossum22
    Can you get away with not swapping out the crank? Clearly. Is it something I would personally do? No. Given the fact that our shop works on a lot of road bikes, including those with shimano 10 speed, I've seen a number of TEN SPEED cranksets that weren't properly engineered and resulted in shifting problems (mostly from Truvativ and misc. compact cranks). This leads me to believe that its best to avoid any potential shifting problems and get a matching Shimano 10spd. crankset for your 10 speed upgrade. Just my two cents.
    Ditto, I've already seen a number of 10 speed setups where going from one set of rings to another (both 10spd) resulted in differences in shifting crispness. At least one of the guys at our shop did this EXACT SAME UPGRADE, it worked pretty well, but when he finally got some spendola to buy the cranks and rings it worked substantially better.

    I really don't know what else to say here...the calipers say it makes a difference, a number of guys in the shop and in the real world say it makes a difference...the only people who insist that it *doesn't* make a difference very clearly have something against Shimano and against the bike industry in general and slant their opinions and troll accordingly.

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