Bruco

Please allow me to share...

Yesterday night I tried to put to use my fairly new wheel trueing stand, spoke wrench and whatever was left in my memory from Zinn, Barnett's and BikeForum posts.

I failed. Had to capitulate for a huge wobble (forgot to ‘measure’, but my guess is that the deepest dent was more than 5 mm), that I could not straighten out. Not enough patience? Too much fear to ruin the rim? Insecurity as to the theoretical underpinnings of wheel building and repair?

So this morning I brought the wheel to the LBS (not telling them, of course, that I would have preferred to not bring them business). I hope their ace mechanics will sort things out, rather than pretend I need new stuff.

Meanwhile I will continue studying the literature. In the future--hopefully distant--and with a less out-of-true/someone else’s wheel, I will regain my lost confidence/pride and re-true the wheel myself. And save some cash.

The wheel--Mavic CXP33 rim, Ultegra hub, sapim spokes--I occasionally recommended to others for its durability. But apparently it doesn't take everything...

6.000 km so far, without anything that I would call ‘abuse’. The only exception, perhaps, being some 30 km of Flemish ‘kasseien’ (pavé, cobble stones). Perhaps it wasn’t properly built to begin with...

Calvin Jones

Well, when things go bad, you might at that point simply loosen everything and take it from the beginning again. See also Wheel Truing

chewa

Oh oh.

My wheels are just in for a free tune up after 1100 miles. they were still as true as a die but I had noticed some of the tensions had loosened off.


Mavic T 520's, Hope hubs, DT spokes.

I thought it best to get them re tensioned now as me and the Mrs are touring your part of the world and part of Belgium at the end of the month. Hope the pave' is'nt too bad. !!

MichaelW

Get hold of an old wheel, but one with rotatable spoke nipples (ie not seized up), and just play.

Bruco

Thanks, Calvin. Good link indeed. Those Park Tool ‘manuals’ rule.

Made me wonder: does any of the Bike Forum's (home) mechanics use a spoke tension meter? They seem to be rather expensive and might be a bit over the top for amateurs like yours truly.

A similar question regarding torque wrenches produced varying answers.

Bruco

My guess is that most of the Belgian pavé can be easily avoided, should one happen to dislike it.

I had to travel the cobbles, because that particular day’s organised ride was devoted to Flemish cyclismo (it was the ‘national day’, in fact). Hence ‘kasseien’, which are cherished as the key stones of its tradition--requiring closer personal inspection. A few very nasty cobble sectors remain up to this day (of course, the ‘best’ of them, such as the Molenstraat, were carefully selected by the ride organisers). They really hurt and require straightforward, all-out attacking, instead of rhythmic, constant RPM-ing.

Should I one day go for the enevitable Paris-Roubaix (aka Hell of the North, THE pavé spring classic), I will probably do so on a cheep, very old, derelict bicycle.

Have fun exploring the ‘Old World’, chewa!

Bruco

Excellent idea, MichaelW! It would certainly be less stressful--but nonetheless make for good learning--to work on abandoned stuff.

Yet, the appartment is already packed with ‘bike stuff’--as my girlfriend sees it. I have to admit that we don’t have any space left--even though for cycling tools and components I personally would sacrifice some...

TrekRider

I read somewhere (Bicyclings 25 best hints???) that you should use an old wheel, perhaps ask your LBS for an old one or even purchase an old one from them if you don't already have one lying around, and practice on it. Once you get it trued, torture it manually, then re-true it. Practice makes perfectomente!

JimB

I don't think you failed at truing your wheels. I give you a lot of credit for having the guts to take a shot at it. The only way to fail is to not try it at all.

Bruco

Thanks for your kind and wise words, JimB!

Well, if I didn’t fail, the LBS sure didn’t. Yesterday I picked up the wheel and it was straight as an arrow. They charged me eight Euro (ca. 9 $). Seems fair to me.

I will pluck the spokes extensively, to get an idea about the proper tensioning. Next time, I will not capitulate to a wobble...

Yet, while the wheel is true (laterally and vertically), it seems that it is not perfectly centered--‘dished’ is the term of art, I believe. The rim does not run in the exact middle of the drop-outs/seat stays/chain stays.

I guess for a rear wheel, that’s normal (given the space needed for the cassette). The bike rides okay, to be sure. Would anybody know which amount of out-of-center is generally ‘acceptable’? When is it time to re-dish the wheel?

roadbuzz

I don't have one, but will get one when I buy a stand and try my hand at wheel-building. I feel like amateurs especially need one, until developing a feel for what's right. But I wouldn't expect one to be particularly useful for trueing a wheel that's seen some use. After a rim has developed dents, hops, etc., it doesn't take even spoke tension to keep a wheel true.

Bruco

:confused:

Not sure what you are saying, roadbuzz. But it sounds interesting! Could you elaborate on that?

Dave Stohler

Sorry, but yes, it does. It takes not only spoke tension, but a bit of rim stiffness, too.

Rev.Chuck

What roadbuzz means is if you hit something and knock a wiggle in the rim, the problem is not that the spoke tension is improper but that the rim itself is bent. To straighten it back out you would need to tighten the spokes opposite the direction of the wiggle(which are already tighter because the bent rim is pulling them) and loosen the spokes on the side of the wiggle. When I get I wheel I evaluate: Is it bent or is it improper spoke tension. If it is bent I carefully slam it on the floor(Looks horrible works great) to re straighten it and then go thru the spokes if needed. This is usually for lowend wheels. If a nice wheel is bent I only use the slam method if the customer does not want the rim replaced.

sibelius

how often do you true your wheels? Maybe I'm a tad overzealous on the truing, but I usually do a slight tune up when they wobble more than 1mm. It just seems the longer I put it off, the more damage I'm going to do to them. Besides, for some reason I find truing sort of fun...am I weird or what?

bikerchas55

A non-centered rear wheel will cause several undesirables; squirreliness in cornering and at high speed, uneven tire wear and difficulty in rear brake centering and adjustment. A couple milimeters one way or the other can be lived with

Bruco

Okay. I had a wiggle in the rim and was trying to correct it by fumbling around with spoke tension.

Maybe this wiggle was too pronounced and I should have tried the Reverend's slamming method first.

Does anybody know of a somewhat more elegant (and fool proof) method to deal with rim wiggles?

Bruco

Thanks, bikerchas55! The bike rides smoothly and swiftly and there are no problems with positioning the brakes. Tire wear is an issue--but not in this context. So I will not worry too much about 'dishing' the wheel.

Bruco

Yes, go see a mental doctor. You must be nuts, taking such good care of your cycling gear. Those true wheels roll like a dream, so what's the point?

Question is, how often do you have to true your wheels, in order to keep them within your 1 mm margin? Weeks? Months?

Rev.Chuck

You can also hold the wheel on the floor with the bent section at the top towards you. Put you foot against the base of the rim, grab it either side of the bend, put your knee against the bend (You may want to pad it with a rag) and pull towards you with your arms push with you knee. Do it a bit at a time checking in the stand often (Mark the "peak" with a sharpie) It is better to do to little and ease up to the straight point than flex it hard and really taco the rim. Again, this is for a wheel that has been bent but not messed with and for bigger whops out of true.
I love trueing wheels, and building them, it is the best part of the day.
The best way to learn how to true a wheel is to build a couple. You spend a lot of time truing and rounding as you build up tension and it will give you a much better intuition when doing a true.