Possible to put caged bearings in Shimano Hubs?
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Possible to put caged bearings in Shimano Hubs?
Shimano seems to like loose bearings in their hubs. Loose bearings are inherently less efficient than caged bearings because the bearings tend to crash into each other and that's why you hear that clicking noise. Has anybody tried replacing the loose balls with caged bearings with any success? Just wondering because that clicking makes me squirm when I think about the ground and plated races and cones and the fancy #25 balls grinding each other.
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Duno where you heard that,but the smart money seems to be on loose balls in HS and BB,so it should apply to hubs. Maybe you ought to offer your services as a design engineer to Shimano and Campy.
Last edited by sydney; 09-16-05 at 09:20 PM.
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Originally Posted by abm1213
Shimano seems to like loose bearings in their hubs. Loose bearings are inherently less efficient than caged bearings because the bearings tend to crash into each other and that's why you hear that clicking noise. Has anybody tried replacing the loose balls with caged bearings with any success? Just wondering because that clicking makes me squirm when I think about the ground and plated races and cones and the fancy #25 balls grinding each other.
My understanding is that there is nothing that can be done. Ball seperator cages won't fit inside the hubs either.
Try some heavier grease such as waterproof maring grease. It's thick enough to reduce the racket which was my reason for trying it.
Good luck.
Ed
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Instead of touching each other at one small point like with loose bearings, what do you think the balls in a cage are rubbing up against? The contact area with a cage is much, much larger... more friction... Also with caged bearings, you have fewer bearings, so each one will have higher pressure at their contact point for the same load (compared to a higher number of loose bearings). This will result in increased wear.
If you hear clicking in the bearings, maybe it's time to grease them... The blue boat-trailer bearing grease works really well to quiet any bearing noises.
If you hear clicking in the bearings, maybe it's time to grease them... The blue boat-trailer bearing grease works really well to quiet any bearing noises.
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Originally Posted by abm1213
Loose bearings are inherently less efficient than caged bearings because the bearings tend to crash into each other and that's why you hear that clicking noise.
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Originally Posted by sydney
^^^^....You just aren't smoking enough carpet.
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Originally Posted by Retro Grouch
Clicking noise from hub bearings? I don't think so.
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Tough crowd. Pay attention to those who suggest bearing grease. You want to overhaul your hubs and, perhaps, replace the ball bearings prior to greasing.
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Actually, I was led to believe that caged bearings are inferior to loose ball in every respect. Apparently, they are only used because they make assembly, esp. robotic assembly easier. Some guys replace the cage for this reason with loose balls in new headsets etc.
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Originally Posted by Retro Grouch
That ain't it. I just think that some guys have wasted too much time reading books and going to school that would have been better spent riding their bikes.
I've spent quite a bit of time working on a particularly noisy Dura Ace 7700 rear hub. Fresh marine grease quiets that bad boy right down...for a while. I also have a brand new in the box 7700 rear hub that will make the same noise when turning the axle by hand.
No hemp smoking going on here. Maybe you are the one...
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I would rather have more bearings per race any day than big heavy bearing cages which are nothing but dead weight. (like a kick stand.) I've always used white lithium grease but i'll have to try that marine stuff they keep talking about. Bearing cages are like spoke guards, a waste.
Just think how smooth the hubs will be with free bearings and great grease!! Best place for free bearings, in the bottom bracket.
Keep on Biking!
Just think how smooth the hubs will be with free bearings and great grease!! Best place for free bearings, in the bottom bracket.
Keep on Biking!
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Originally Posted by Nessism
With all due respect, you are wrong my friend. The loose balls "fall over the top" when the axle is turned thus leading to the click noise. This noise is fairly faint but is clearly audible if you tune your hearing for it.
I've spent quite a bit of time working on a particularly noisy Dura Ace 7700 rear hub. Fresh marine grease quiets that bad boy right down...for a while. I also have a brand new in the box 7700 rear hub that will make the same noise when turning the axle by hand.
No hemp smoking going on here. Maybe you are the one...
I've spent quite a bit of time working on a particularly noisy Dura Ace 7700 rear hub. Fresh marine grease quiets that bad boy right down...for a while. I also have a brand new in the box 7700 rear hub that will make the same noise when turning the axle by hand.
No hemp smoking going on here. Maybe you are the one...
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Originally Posted by sydney
You sure you aren't short a bearing? I've heard of shimano front hub that seemed to be lacking one.
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Originally Posted by Nessism
With all due respect, you are wrong my friend. The loose balls "fall over the top" when the axle is turned thus leading to the click noise. This noise is fairly faint but is clearly audible if you tune your hearing for it.
I've spent quite a bit of time working on a particularly noisy Dura Ace 7700 rear hub. Fresh marine grease quiets that bad boy right down...for a while. I also have a brand new in the box 7700 rear hub that will make the same noise when turning the axle by hand.
No hemp smoking going on here. Maybe you are the one...
I've spent quite a bit of time working on a particularly noisy Dura Ace 7700 rear hub. Fresh marine grease quiets that bad boy right down...for a while. I also have a brand new in the box 7700 rear hub that will make the same noise when turning the axle by hand.
No hemp smoking going on here. Maybe you are the one...
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Originally Posted by Retro Grouch
Well, lets think about what's happening here. You've got some number of balls that are as close to the same size as modern manufacturing methods will allow separating a cup on the hub shell from a cone on the axle. For the balls to run into each other, some of them are going to have to be rolling faster than others. "Splain to me how that happens.
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Dura Ace front hubs use 11 3/16" bearing balls, not the 10 used in most other front hubs. If you are hearing clicking, maybe you put in 10.
Caged bearings have NO advantage over loose balls except for ease of assembly.
I've rebuilt dozens of loose bearing hubs from the cheap Sun Tour and Maillard up to Dura Ace. None of them have ever clicked when spun.
Caged bearings have NO advantage over loose balls except for ease of assembly.
I've rebuilt dozens of loose bearing hubs from the cheap Sun Tour and Maillard up to Dura Ace. None of them have ever clicked when spun.