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Old 09-18-05, 08:07 AM   #1
FarHorizon
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Effects of deep V rims on Clydsdale wheels?

The traditional knowledge is that for anybody much over 200#, the following are appropriate for bike wheels:

1. Lots of spokes (32 minimum, more are better)
2. Lots of crosses (3x minimum, 4x is better)
3. Heavy duty spokes (either straight ga. or heavy ga. butted)
4. Large volume tires (28 mm minimum, up to 37 mm)

I recently bought a used bike with Campagnolo Vento wheels with 22 mm racing tires, which violate all of the above rules. Despite this, these wheels have remained true and strong despite my 255# weight AND despite riding over rather bad pavement.

The only "wild card" I see in the Campy wheels not mentioned in the "Clydsdale wheel rules" are the deep-V aero rims. Do these V-style rims add enough strength to the wheel set that the traditional shortcomings don't apply? And finally, despite the good performance so far, am I doomed to taco these wheels, or should I keep riding them?
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Old 09-18-05, 08:17 AM   #2
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Well, you know what they say about generalizations. The deep rim section does help.
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Old 09-18-05, 08:25 AM   #3
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Old 09-18-05, 01:30 PM   #4
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What about quality of the wheelbuild? That seems like an 'x' factor.

I'm sure you can guess the effect of a clydesdale on a machine built wheel versus a quality hand built wheel, even with the exact smae wheel components.
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Old 09-18-05, 04:54 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BostonFixed
What about quality of the wheelbuild? That seems like an 'x' factor.

I'm sure you can guess the effect of a clydesdale on a machine built wheel versus a quality hand built wheel, even with the exact smae wheel components.
If the two wheels are identical in terms of components and both have the same spoke tension and consistent tension from spoke to spoke, what would make the hand laced one better?
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Old 09-18-05, 06:41 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BostonFixed
What about quality of the wheelbuild? That seems like an 'x' factor.
The wheels were hand-tweaked by the racer who owned (and raced) the bike before me. They are better than average factory wheels.
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Old 09-18-05, 08:24 PM   #7
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Wheel build quality means a lot. Also, please note that Velocity makes a Deep V rim for MTB downhill racers. That should tell you something about the relative strength of the wheel design.
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Old 09-18-05, 08:41 PM   #8
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The biggie is not so much the handlacing, altho a good builder will do some angle tweaking when he lays the spokes in. The difference is the hand truing, the even tensioning, the care of getting the wheel up to tension and round and true.

Burly deep section rims do make for a stronger wheel, even when you use a lighter guage spoke. The butted spoke may even help with longevity as it will give a little and help spread the force of an impact rather than sending it through one or two spokes.

22s are a little skinny. Are they tubulars? I don't see to many clinchers in 22 I would go up a little just for comfort, maybe a 25. You would also get more pinch protection, unless they are tubular, then it does not matter as much.
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Old 09-18-05, 08:44 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fmw
If the two wheels are identical in terms of components and both have the same spoke tension and consistent tension from spoke to spoke, what would make the hand laced one better?
I'm not here to play logic games.

Virtually no machine built wheels, with the possible exception of some high end wheels have what you speak of; consistent spoke tension.

I'm no good at riddles.
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Old 09-18-05, 10:16 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FarHorizon
The traditional knowledge is that for anybody much over 200#, the following are appropriate for bike wheels:

1. Lots of spokes (32 minimum, more are better)
2. Lots of crosses (3x minimum, 4x is better)
3. Heavy duty spokes (either straight ga. or heavy ga. butted)
4. Large volume tires (28 mm minimum, up to 37 mm)?
my 2 cents:

firstly, how heavy are you?

A 30mm deep rim probably isn't totally necessary for strength, but they are AWESOME for stiffness, especially on the rear....obviously

Straight gauge DTs should be fine.

With tyres, unless you're on really crappy roads, a 23 should be ok, but go for one with a higher psi rating, such as a high-end Vredestein or a highish-end Vittoria. Many big guys say they need more than 120psi on the rear to keep the rim off the road
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Old 09-19-05, 06:32 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FarHorizon
The traditional knowledge is that for anybody much over 200#, the following are appropriate for bike wheels:

1. Lots of spokes (32 minimum, more are better)
2. Lots of crosses (3x minimum, 4x is better)
3. Heavy duty spokes (either straight ga. or heavy ga. butted)
4. Large volume tires (28 mm minimum, up to 37 mm)

I recently bought a used bike with Campagnolo Vento wheels with 22 mm racing tires, which violate all of the above rules. Despite this, these wheels have remained true and strong despite my 255# weight AND despite riding over rather bad pavement.

The only "wild card" I see in the Campy wheels not mentioned in the "Clydsdale wheel rules" are the deep-V aero rims. Do these V-style rims add enough strength to the wheel set that the traditional shortcomings don't apply? And finally, despite the good performance so far, am I doomed to taco these wheels, or should I keep riding them?
Let me try to put your mind at ease. I own a Vento wheelset. They are very sturdy wheels made with heavy duty components. In fact they weigh about 2000 grams. I find them stiff and solid, even in the fastest corners. I think they are an excellent choice for a heavier rider.
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Old 09-19-05, 08:15 AM   #12
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I say just keep riding them. At 330lbs I've been through some wheels. I've broken lots of spokes and bent some rims doing stupid things. I went from a 8 speed rear wheel, deore lx hub with a mavic 221 double walled rim, to a fixed gear rear wheel with a Velocity Cliff Hanger rim. I can tell you, it changed my ride so much, the wheel is SO much stiffer. I don't know how much of that is because of the triangulation of the fixed gear wheel (no dishing) or the build itself, or the awesome rim itself. If I were to build up a road bike for myself, I would most definitely be using deep V rims and straight gauge spokes and a professional wheel build (which is VERY important).

Have fun on your new ride!
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Old 09-19-05, 09:01 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rev.Chuck
22s are a little skinny. Are they tubulars? I don't see to many clinchers in 22 I would go up a little just for comfort, maybe a 25. You would also get more pinch protection, unless they are tubular, then it does not matter as much.
Hi Rev! The 22s are skinny. They are clinchers. The way this frame is made, I don't think there's chainstay clearance for anything larger. This frame was built as a racing frame, and tire clearance is zilch.

I'm going to ride them (by the bye, I put about 30 miles on the bike this morning without problem) and see how they do. Worst that can happen - the wheels die & I get some stronger ones.

Alternate plan #2 - I buy a touring frame and use larger tires!
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Old 09-19-05, 09:02 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fmw
Let me try to put your mind at ease. I own a Vento wheelset. They are very sturdy wheels made with heavy duty components. In fact they weigh about 2000 grams. I find them stiff and solid, even in the fastest corners. I think they are an excellent choice for a heavier rider.
Thanks, Fred! I'll rest easier. They're doing fine by me so far!
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