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Old 09-18-05, 03:30 PM   #1
bvancouv
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How my LBS screwed me

I have this old Schwinn road bike- an early 80's era Voyager, I think. I bought it second-hand earlier this summer. About a month ago, I popped both tires on the way to work. Oh well, **** happens. I take into the shop nearest work, which was Kozy's Cyclery, on Erie (in Chicago). I was just going to have them patch the tubes or replace them altogether while I was at work. But when I get there, the guy at the service desk says "Sure, I could replace those tubes, but if you really want to avoid popping tires, you should buy these phat tires." The tires, which I bought, are Specialized Armadillos, featuring Kevlar. Nice tires.

The tires are rated at 140 psi. Today I go and use another shop's nice pump, and the tires were inflated to no more than 80. I pump them up to 120, which I think is reasonable. Not 140, but pretty good. It's hard to pump to 140. I ride around for about twenty minutes, running some errands. I come out of best buy, and Blam! the front tube is popped. I didn't hear it go Blam! but I'm sure it did. Again, sucks, but **** happens. As I walk the bike home, all of a sudden the rear wheel starts dragging really bad. I move it about another 2 inches, and then BLAM! This one I did hear, and it was loud. Both tires. Crippled bike.

So I take the wheels into another LBS, this time Johnny Sprockets, on Broadway. Good shop. They reveal to me the whole story, and this is where you'll hear about how Kozy's screwed me. The wheels are old Shimanos, 27 inches. While nearly all rims these days have a little lip that holds the bead of the tire in, these wheels don't- they are just straight vertical, no lip. So when I inflated them to close the recommended PSI, they bulged out of the tire and BLAMMO!

I go into another Kozy's, this time the one on Halsted, near Wrigley Field. I explain the story, how I paid over $100 for the new tires and installation, how they never told me they would never fit my wheels right. All I want them to do is replace the tires with ones that will work, or put the money I spent on the Armadillos towards a new set of wheels. But wouldn't you know it, it's a Sunday, and the manager won't be back until Tuesday. But even when he/she comes in, since I need 27 inch wheels, they'll have to order them. It will take another two weeks for them to come. "They're an old English size", says the mechanic, despite the fact that it says Shimano right on the wheel.

So, we'll see. If they give any kind of **** when I go back on Tuesday I'll just return the $1000 Cannondale R500 I bought there two weeks ago.
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Old 09-18-05, 03:57 PM   #2
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The initial shop inflated them to 80 and they would have worked that way. You screwed the pooch.
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Old 09-18-05, 04:03 PM   #3
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^^^yeah, but why recommed $100 tires that go to 140 if you have hookless rims that cant take more than 80. If the same guy said 27" is an old english size, it sounds like a case of over-eager and newbie-wet-behind-the-ears bike-geekery to me.
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Old 09-18-05, 04:05 PM   #4
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and also, Sydney, why conflate beastiality ("screwing the pooch") with overinflating tires? is this a glimpse into your veil of enigma?? what are the hidden meanings here?...
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Old 09-18-05, 04:12 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by genericbikedude
^^^yeah, but why recommed $100 tires that go to 140 if you have hookless rims that cant take more than 80. If the same guy said 27" is an old english size, it sounds like a case of over-eager and newbie-wet-behind-the-ears bike-geekery to me.
Well actually, I have 27" tires with both hi and low max pressure recommendations,the hi being for hooked rims, and stated on the sidewall. Now lets assume the shop noted the hookless rims,and that was the reson for the lower inflation pressure. Maybe they should have warned the guy,but how do they know or not know what he knows about his equipemnt? Maybe his first go round of popping tubes was because the tires blew off due to overinflation? Sometimes ya gotta leran the hard way if you don't know about some of this stuff.
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Old 09-18-05, 04:14 PM   #6
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alls I'm saying is that armadillos seem like overkill. Its like putting a Chris King headset on a huffy
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Old 09-18-05, 04:18 PM   #7
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^^^...That's just nonsense.Armadillos can go on any bike ridden in a tough enviroment if one wants to avoid or have fewer flats.
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Old 09-18-05, 04:25 PM   #8
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No its not nonsense, Mr Pooch Screwer. Not getting flats is a matter of keeping your tires properly inflated, and luck. I've ridden around on the same pyramid 700x25s for hears with harldy any flats, because I keep them inflated properly. Sure, your likelihood of getting flats may reduce to near zero, but these tires cost $100!!! If a bike that is not worth that much on its own!!
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Old 09-18-05, 04:30 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by sydney
Maybe they should have warned the guy,but how do they know or not know what he knows about his equipemnt?
I think they definitely should have warned him that the max inflate pressure was less for his configuration than that printed on the tire they sold him. The fact that he's taking his bike to the shop to get tubes replaced is a pretty good clue as to what he knows about his equipment.
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Old 09-18-05, 04:43 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by genericbikedude
No its not nonsense, Mr Pooch Screwer. Not getting flats is a matter of keeping your tires properly inflated, and luck. I've ridden around on the same pyramid 700x25s for hears with harldy any flats, because I keep them inflated properly. Sure, your likelihood of getting flats may reduce to near zero, but these tires cost $100!!! If a bike that is not worth that much on its own!!
Just more nonsense. I use good tires,properly inflated and many have kevlar protection and still get flats. Armadillos a known to be relatively bulletproof.sydney only uses em on a beater because they are heavy and ride bad.There is more to flats than just proper inflation and luck..... Did someone twist the posters arm or hold a gun to his head?
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Old 09-18-05, 04:52 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by sydney
The initial shop inflated them to 80 and they would have worked that way. You screwed the pooch.
Perhaps, but they should have told me why they were underinflated. They can't assume I'm going to know never to inflate my tires properly.
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Old 09-18-05, 04:56 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by bvancouv
Perhaps, but they should have told me why they were underinflated. They can't assume I'm going to know never to inflate my tires properly.
Sydney has it absolutely right this time, They didn't "underinflate" your tires, they inflated them correctly. You overinflated them based on the rims you have. Further, they didn't assume you knew what you were doing, they did the job correctly and they couldn't be aware you would do the wrong thing after they finished.

Basically, you learned a cheap lesson.
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Old 09-18-05, 04:56 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by viter
I think they definitely should have warned him that the max inflate pressure was less for his configuration than that printed on the tire they sold him. The fact that he's taking his bike to the shop to get tubes replaced is a pretty good clue as to what he knows about his equipment.
It was during the day, while I was at work, and I needed to ride it home. I know how to change tubes, thanks. I just didn't know I had hookless rims- I bought the bike second-hand and hadn't had to change anything yet.
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Old 09-18-05, 05:04 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by HillRider
Sydney has it absolutely right this time, They didn't "underinflate" your tires, they inflated them correctly. You overinflated them based on the rims you have. Further, they didn't assume you knew what you were doing, they did the job correctly and they couldn't be aware you would do the wrong thing after they finished.

Basically, you learned a cheap lesson.
You're right, now I know. But still, they didn't say anything about it- all they had to do was say "remember to inflate them to 80".

Are hookless rims unusual these days?
Is it safe to ride tires that are inflated less than the rated pressure? (road bike) Newbie questions.
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Old 09-18-05, 05:05 PM   #15
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I see both sides of this one (and usually I'm an opinionated MoFo). Find the manager, explain your situation calmly, see what they'll do to make you happy.

Hold off on trying to shove the R500 down their throats.

Report back to us.

Did I say "calmly?"
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Old 09-18-05, 05:07 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by genericbikedude
alls I'm saying is that armadillos seem like overkill.
Not really, Armadillos don't exactly show up on 5k race bikes. They are a cheap training/beater tire. I was picking them up for $2 last month.
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Old 09-18-05, 05:10 PM   #17
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ha, yeah, that's what I'll do. Anyway, they know I love the R500. Made in the USA!
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Old 09-18-05, 05:18 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by bvancouv
You're right, now I know. But still, they didn't say anything about it- all they had to do was say "remember to inflate them to 80".

Are hookless rims unusual these days?
Is it safe to ride tires that are inflated less than the rated pressure? (road bike) Newbie questions.
Sorry if I sounded uncharitable. The shop did the right thing but you have a good point that they should have told you why.

Hookbead rims are almost universal on any decent quality bike these days and hookless rims are pretty much limited to much older rims. My 1985 Bridgestone also had 27" wheels but had hookbead rims.

Yes, it's safe to ride on tires inflated below the maximum sidewall pressure. The only possible problem with serious underinflation is the possibility of "pinch flats" i.e. double punctures that occur if the tire hits a pothole, etc. hard enough to push it against the rim. The tube is trapped between the tire and rim and sustains two close together punctures. For obvious reasons these are also called "snakebite" flats. Unless you are very heavy or using tires smaller than 27x1" 80 psi should be enough.
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Old 09-18-05, 05:50 PM   #19
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Not really, Armadillos don't exactly show up on 5k race bikes. They are a cheap training/beater tire. I was picking them up for $2 last month.
Damn, where do you get them for $2??? I want some...
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Old 09-18-05, 06:23 PM   #20
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Damn, where do you get them for $2??? I want some...
right...
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Old 09-18-05, 06:25 PM   #21
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Check your math- sounds like the OP rode an entire month without topping off the air- and a month later they were at 80 psi. Who knows what they originally were pumped up to? Maybe even as high as 100
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Old 09-18-05, 08:38 PM   #22
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Sorry, but I have to side with the customer on this one. I've only been doing the retail thing for about 3 weeks now, but Kozy's screwed up. We had a charity ride 2 weeks ago, so everyone was in getting new tires for their bikes, and I probably sold 20 tires in 1 Saturday. Our policy is to discuss tire size, rim size, pressure, and tube size before handing over the goods. It only takes 2 minutes to go over those things before ringing up the sale.

He went in to get flats fixed, and Kozy's was eager to sell him some new tires too. The bike was there, so they had no reason not to explain why he got 2 flats, and what the correct pressure for the Armadillos was on his application. Labor cost for a puncture repair at our shop is $26. Yup, $26 to swap a tube. But you can be sure that the customer gets an explanation as to why he got a flat, and how it could have possibly been avoided. Of course, our mechanic gives the bike a quick going over to see if there's anything else that may need service too. The point is that this guy got sold tires, without any service.
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Old 09-18-05, 08:48 PM   #23
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Is the $26 Australian or USD?
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Old 09-18-05, 08:57 PM   #24
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$26 !! Holy crap! Have you got a list of your shop pricing? I would like to hang it next to our price list.
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Old 09-18-05, 09:01 PM   #25
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$26 !! Holy crap! Have you got a list of your shop pricing? I would like to hang it next to our price list.
I guess you won't hear anymore "my lbs ripped me off" rants.
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