SeattleTom

I've got a Rodriguez bicycle (made in Seattle by R+E cycles) that's about four years old. It came with a low-end Campy 9-speed setup, and it's run pretty troublefree since I got it.
I decided it was time to change the chain, and as usual, I'd waited too long and had to change the cassette as well. Bought a 9-speed Veloce 13-23 cluster, put it on with the new chain -- and the derailleur cage went hopping and chattering like it was jammed up, or like the lower pulley wasn't rotating properly.
I took apart the pulleys and cleaned them, put it together, and the same thing happened.
The thing is, it works fine on the bike stand, even with the brake on to simulate a load, the chain feeds through nice and smooth as a Campy TV commercial (if there is such a thing.) But I get on the bike and pedal it, and it jumps and hops and chatters. Not every revolution of the chain, like a tight link (though it's a little like that) but constantly - hop-hop-chatter-hop-click-click-chatter-hop
I tried adjusting the derailleur back and forth with the barrel adjuster, to no avail.

By now it's late at night and I'm all frustrated, so I put the old cassette and chain on, and it runs fine.

I continue riding the bike for a couple of days, and I have an epiphany -- the problem isn't with the back end at all -- the chainwheels are dirty and the new, unworn chain is hanging up on the gummy grease on the chainwheel! Come home, take the chainwheels apart and scrub them till they're new, put it all back together with my new cassette, my recently cleaned derailleur, my chainwheels so clean you could eat sushi with them, and my new Campy chain.

And, exactly the same thing! The derailleur cage jumps and chatters, just like before. Again, it works just fine on the stand, but when I'm pedalling (and I can't look down and see what's going on) the cage jumps and hops.

I even thought -- "OMG, they stuck a ten-speed cassette in the box!" but no, I counted the sprockets, and there's nine.

It's a 9-speed Campy Mirage derailleur, a 9-speed Campy Veloce (ultra-drive!) cassette, a 9-speed Campy chain. (Actually I have two new Campy chains; one's a Record, the other I think is a Veloce, but I don't have the box. They behave identically.)

My first thought is to resurrect my old bike with the 7-speed cassette and try to sell the Rodriguez on eBay with the old chain and cassette. Anyone have any better ideas? Ideally ones that don't involve spending a grand or two on a new drive train?

FarHorizon

Did you try the "old" derailleur with the "new" chain? Just a thought that the new chain might actually be a 10-speed model (as you obviously know, they are narrower). You've probably thought of this already.. My other thought is that your chainwheels are worn by your old (stretched) chain and that you're getting some chain suck even though they're clean?

SeattleTom

I didn't change the derailleur, just the cassette and chain. I tried the new chain with the old cassette, but not the old cassette with the new chain.
And, yes, I thought about the chain being the new "scam" 10-speed, but the links have C-9 stamped on them.

The chain wheels aren't really all THAT old, and they don't really look particularly worn.

Thanks.

spinbackle

What exactly is "scam" about the C10 chain?

SeattleTom

Well, let's see... a new system, incompatible with what came before, with components that costs twice what the old system did, and wears more quickly because the components are thinner, and gives you a negligible improvement. Then, they stop making the 9-speed system components, to force upgrades. At the risk of sounding like a curmudgeon, that sounds like a scam to me.

sydney

What a load...The 9 speed stuff is all in the 2005 QBP catalogue.

SeattleTom

Well, the 9-speed Campy cassettes are being discontinued from the Nashbar website, and according to the guy at Licton cycle, they can't get them from Italy anymore either. *

I'm sorry, I didn't mean for this to turn into a rant about new technology. I'm just trying to get my bike back together. I apologize for the thread drift.

*Which is sort of surprising, since if you look at the Campy website, they list a full 9-speed product line. Could it be that dealers just don't want to stock multiple gruppos?

gmason

Dealers want to (have to because of demand) sell newer products, and with the 10s out for a few years now, there is probably not much call for complete 9s setups. But even parts are harder to come by in some places. A Campagnolo Pro Shop would likely be the best bet to find "unusual" stuff.

That is the same reason, I suspect, that there have been fantastic deals on great frames built up with 9s higher end Shimano recently.

SeattleTom

Attacking the problem again. My new theory is that what's going on is some sort of "chainwheel suck" where there chain is "sticking" to the chainring, causing the hickuping I hear on the derailleur.
It doesn't appear to happen at all on the large (53t) chainring, which I use less, and is probably less worn.

I didn't think about this at first, because in all the years I've been riding, I've never seen a condition where a worn chainring causes problems. But I've never used smaller-guage 9-speed chains before, either.

Is this something I need to be aware of -- chainring wear? This bike doesn't have a tremendous amount of miles.

Might I be able to remediate it to some degree by grinding down the teeth off the small chainring -- making them "shorter"?

Campy-brand chainrings are hard to find, both at the LBSs and online; is there another brand that fits on Campy cranks?

gmason

Specialites TA and Salsa for two.

SeattleTom

Well, I licked the problem, finally.

I decided (after putting away the bike for a while to stew on it, and commute on my mountain bike) that the problem was chain suck. Perusing SheldonBrown.com led me to https://fagan.co.za/Bikes/Csuck/

He claims that the chainring teeth get deformed, and the cure is to flip the chainring over. Wll, the teeth didn't look deformed to me, but I flipped it over anyhow, and voila, it works fine! no chattering derailleur, it's smooth as slik, and I'm a happy boy.

I've never had this problem before, and I'm sure my last crankset (105) had 20,000 miles on it. Maybe it's more of a problem with the thinner material with the 9-speed system.

vobopl

Miche and Gipiemme, too.

cs1

I'm glad to hear it.

With Campy especially it's just cheaper to go out and buy an entire Veloce crank, new of course and take the chainrings off and swap them onto your crank. You will have an extra set of crank bolts with extra chainring bolts also. You can sell the arms on ebay for some single speed junkie. That is by far the cheapest way to upgrade. BTW Veloce chainrings are actually very nice.

Tim